shape
carat
color
clarity

Thoughts on this radiant cut?

NachosForTwo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
14
1.11 carat
Clarity: VVS2
Color: H
Measurements: 6.24x5.7x3.48
Depth: 61.1%
Table: 69%
Crown Height: 11.8%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium
Fluorescence: Slight blue
Cert: EGL USA


When I put the stats into the AGA/NAJA Cut Class Diamond Screening Tool it gives me a total grade of 1B. I know you need to see the diamond to know for sure, but does this seem like a pretty decent stone based on numbers? I realize that the color grade could easily be a grade off since it's EGL USA, but that doesn't really bother me.

Thanks in advance for your advice!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
NachosForTwo|1334033795|3167223 said:
1.11 carat
Clarity: VVS2
Color: H
Measurements: 6.24x5.7x3.48
Depth: 61.1%
Table: 69%
Crown Height: 11.8%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium
Fluorescence: Slight blue
Cert: EGL USA


When I put the stats into the AGA/NAJA Cut Class Diamond Screening Tool it gives me a total grade of 1B. I know you need to see the diamond to know for sure, but does this seem like a pretty decent stone based on numbers? I realize that the color grade could easily be a grade off since it's EGL USA, but that doesn't really bother me.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

you really need images for radiant cuts.
 

chel180

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
1,246
slg47|1334034580|3167235 said:
NachosForTwo|1334033795|3167223 said:
1.11 carat
Clarity: VVS2
Color: H
Measurements: 6.24x5.7x3.48
Depth: 61.1%
Table: 69%
Crown Height: 11.8%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium
Fluorescence: Slight blue
Cert: EGL USA


When I put the stats into the AGA/NAJA Cut Class Diamond Screening Tool it gives me a total grade of 1B. I know you need to see the diamond to know for sure, but does this seem like a pretty decent stone based on numbers? I realize that the color grade could easily be a grade off since it's EGL USA, but that doesn't really bother me.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

you really need images for radiant cuts.

+1 Please share images if you can
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Pictures, yes. And you do need to know that EGL grading is not reliable, so the stone is probably I or J color in reality.
 

NachosForTwo

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Apr 4, 2012
Messages
14
The website didn't have any pictures, when I get some I'll post them. I'm just trying to figure out if based on the numbers, this is a diamond worth pursuing.
 

Gypsy

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Messages
40,225
NachosForTwo|1334074189|3167513 said:
The website didn't have any pictures, when I get some I'll post them. I'm just trying to figure out if based on the numbers, this is a diamond worth pursuing.

With radiants and all fancies the numbers don't tell you anything sorry. I can't even give you odds on whether it is going to be nice or not.
 

NachosForTwo

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Joined
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Messages
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diamondseeker2006|1334071758|3167462 said:
Pictures, yes. And you do need to know that EGL grading is not reliable, so the stone is probably I or J color in reality.

According to the Pricescope study, EGL-USA (there's a big difference between USA and the other EGL's) was on average about 0.7 color grades looser than GIA. However, they were stricter when it came to clarity. I'm looking at this stone as if it's probably closer to an I than an H, but no worse than an I. If it looks too warm, I'll send it back, but what I like about this diamond is that numbers wise, it appears to be an excellent cut. I'm not an expert by any means though, which is why I was wanting a few more opinions.

Just trying to be an educated consumer!
 

NachosForTwo

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Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
14
Gypsy|1334074525|3167521 said:
NachosForTwo|1334074189|3167513 said:
The website didn't have any pictures, when I get some I'll post them. I'm just trying to figure out if based on the numbers, this is a diamond worth pursuing.

With radiants and all fancies the numbers don't tell you anything sorry. I can't even give you odds on whether it is going to be nice or not.


I understand that seeing the stone first-hand is very important, but that's not going to happen unless I buy it and have it shipped to me. All the research I've done online suggests that numbers do play a significant part in the cut of a diamond and can help you narrow down your choices when shopping online.
 

Gypsy

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Messages
40,225
NachosForTwo|1334074704|3167524 said:
diamondseeker2006|1334071758|3167462 said:
Pictures, yes. And you do need to know that EGL grading is not reliable, so the stone is probably I or J color in reality.

According to the Pricescope study, EGL-USA (there's a big difference between USA and the other EGL's) was on average about 0.7 color grades looser than GIA. However, they were stricter when it came to clarity. I'm looking at this stone as if it's probably closer to an I than an H, but no worse than an I. If it looks too warm, I'll send it back, but what I like about this diamond is that numbers wise, it appears to be an excellent cut. I'm not an expert by any means though, which is why I was wanting a few more opinions.

Just trying to be an educated consumer!


Not true on your individual stone. They are all over the place. The majority of diamonds we see on here come back two color grades lower.

Radiants trap color. That's what the cut DOES. If I wanted a white radiant I wouldn't go below a GIA H. That's all there is to it. I wouldn't bother with EGL at all unless you stick to E or higher.

That said, the diamond could still be lovely. I do think the depth is strange as radiants are usually much deeper. But since we have no pics it could still be lovely. Or it could be a true dog.
 

Gypsy

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Joined
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NachosForTwo|1334074842|3167526 said:
I understand that seeing the stone first-hand is very important, but that's not going to happen unless I buy it and have it shipped to me. All the research I've done online suggests that numbers do play a significant part in the cut of a diamond and can help you narrow down your choices when shopping online.

Listen. Stop telling us what your 2 hours of research has told you. All those articles you've read? Most of us could have WRITTEN THEM. Okay? This isn't the basic 101 for idiots crowd. This is the graduate crowd:

You aren't buying a round. You are buying a radiant. FOR RADIANTS you aren't going to find ideal specs. There are too many facet patterns and variations for the kind of uniformity that you could find if you were buying a princess or a round. YES, if you were buying either of those the numbers would help.

With a radiant, or an EC, or an oval, or a marquise or ANY OTHER cut-- the numbers aren't going to tell you SQUAT except whether the stone is deep or shallow. And you know what? In those shapes there are lovely examples of over deep and over shallow stones being gorgeous. There are ranges that we can recommend for some shapes and some vague guidelines (like table smaller than depth, and crown height over 10%) but your certificate isn't going to list crown height and table over depth doesn't apply to stones as shallow as the one you are considering.

Look at my post count. Okay. Now look at diamondseekers. We do this every day. For 100s of posters a month.

You want to pick some magic numbers that will give you a beautiful radiant, take them out of a hat and enjoy. We are telling you that you can't even REJECT a radiant by the numbers, let alone pick one by them.
 

NachosForTwo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
14
Gypsy|1334075131|3167532 said:
NachosForTwo|1334074842|3167526 said:
I understand that seeing the stone first-hand is very important, but that's not going to happen unless I buy it and have it shipped to me. All the research I've done online suggests that numbers do play a significant part in the cut of a diamond and can help you narrow down your choices when shopping online.

Listen. Stop telling us what your 2 hours of research has told you. All those articles you've read? Most of us could have WRITTEN THEM. Okay? This isn't the basic 101 for idiots crowd. This is the graduate crowd:

You aren't buying a round. You are buying a radiant. FOR RADIANTS you aren't going to find ideal specs. There are too many facet patterns and variations for the kind of uniformity that you could find if you were buying a princess or a round. YES, if you were buying either of those the numbers would help.

With a radiant, or an EC, or an oval, or a marquise or ANY OTHER cut-- the numbers aren't going to tell you SQUAT except whether the stone is deep or shallow. And you know what? In those shapes there are lovely examples of over deep and over shallow stones being gorgeous. There are ranges that we can recommend for some shapes and some vague guidelines (like table smaller than depth, and crown height over 10%) but your certificate isn't going to list crown height and table over depth doesn't apply to stones as shallow as the one you are considering.

Look at my post count. Okay. Now look at diamondseekers. We do this every day. For 100s of posters a month.

You want to pick some magic numbers that will give you a beautiful radiant, take them out of a hat and enjoy. We are telling you that you can't even REJECT a radiant by the numbers, let alone pick one by them.

Wow, that was perhaps the most pompous reply I could have expected to get. Thanks for your help.

BTW, I included the crown height in the numbers above. It IS on the certificate Mr. Expert.

Crown 11.8%
Pavilion 46.3%
Crown Angle 40.5°
Pavilion Angle 32.7°

Where I live, jewelry stores don't stock radiant diamonds and to order one you can expect to may an exorbitant markup. Most websites don't have actual pictures of the diamonds they're selling, which sucks, which is why I'm trying to narrow down according to the numbers. Even on sites like James Allen, I'm not really sure what a photograph really helps you gauge other than maybe color and clarity.

If you don't have any advice that will actually help me, then save your rude comments for someone else, all you're doing is inflating that post count you seem to be so proud of.
 

princesultan

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Joined
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Messages
106
If you don't have any advice that will actually help me, then save your rude comments for someone else, all you're doing is inflating that post count you seem to be so proud of.

*facepalm*

he is giving you advice, you're just not listening to it.
 

onedrop

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
2,216
I have to agree with the posts above, you will need to see this stone or any other radiant cut stone in order to determine whether it's for you. The crown and pavilion angles aren't going to help in this situation because you are not assessing a RB. I did a cursory search for threads about radiants and I came across this one: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/radiant-cut-thoughts.169757/.

You'll notice that in the thread I provided, people were able to give constructive feedback because there were photos and ASET images included. You might also find some valuable info about what to look for with radiants if you read through the entire thing. If you are interested in the stone you posted about, you may want to request additional images and photos to really be able to assess the stone. You can also post the images here when and if you get them to see what others say. If the vendor you are working with can't provide the right information, you may want to try one or more of the PS vendors who can help you find a stone within your budget and quality requirements.

Here is another very recent thread about radiants that you might want to check out: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...evaluated-on-pricescope.170446/?hilit=radiant

And Gypsy is a "she" not a "he."
 

lapelirroja

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
124
NachosForTwo|1334077536|3167554 said:
Even on sites like James Allen, I'm not really sure what a photograph really helps you gauge other than maybe color and clarity.

Umm....especially with fancy cuts the photograph lets you see the FACETING pattern that will be really important.

Look how different

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1469204.asp

looks compared to

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1342400.asp
(good lord that one is UGLY!)

or

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS2-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1381824.asp

or

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1466060.asp

Worlds different!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
NachosForTwo|1334077536|3167554 said:
Gypsy|1334075131|3167532 said:
NachosForTwo|1334074842|3167526 said:
I understand that seeing the stone first-hand is very important, but that's not going to happen unless I buy it and have it shipped to me. All the research I've done online suggests that numbers do play a significant part in the cut of a diamond and can help you narrow down your choices when shopping online.

Listen. Stop telling us what your 2 hours of research has told you. All those articles you've read? Most of us could have WRITTEN THEM. Okay? This isn't the basic 101 for idiots crowd. This is the graduate crowd:

You aren't buying a round. You are buying a radiant. FOR RADIANTS you aren't going to find ideal specs. There are too many facet patterns and variations for the kind of uniformity that you could find if you were buying a princess or a round. YES, if you were buying either of those the numbers would help.

With a radiant, or an EC, or an oval, or a marquise or ANY OTHER cut-- the numbers aren't going to tell you SQUAT except whether the stone is deep or shallow. And you know what? In those shapes there are lovely examples of over deep and over shallow stones being gorgeous. There are ranges that we can recommend for some shapes and some vague guidelines (like table smaller than depth, and crown height over 10%) but your certificate isn't going to list crown height and table over depth doesn't apply to stones as shallow as the one you are considering.

Look at my post count. Okay. Now look at diamondseekers. We do this every day. For 100s of posters a month.

You want to pick some magic numbers that will give you a beautiful radiant, take them out of a hat and enjoy. We are telling you that you can't even REJECT a radiant by the numbers, let alone pick one by them.

Wow, that was perhaps the most pompous reply I could have expected to get. Thanks for your help.

BTW, I included the crown height in the numbers above. It IS on the certificate Mr. Expert.

Crown 11.8%

Pavilion 46.3%
Crown Angle 40.5°
Pavilion Angle 32.7°

Where I live, jewelry stores don't stock radiant diamonds and to order one you can expect to may an exorbitant markup. Most websites don't have actual pictures of the diamonds they're selling, which sucks, which is why I'm trying to narrow down according to the numbers. Even on sites like James Allen, I'm not really sure what a photograph really helps you gauge other than maybe color and clarity.

If you don't have any advice that will actually help me, then save your rude comments for someone else, all you're doing is inflating that post count you seem to be so proud of.

the photo doesn't tell you color and clarity. look at the photos...the appearances for radiants are very varied!!!

here are different diamonds, all radiant cut...


Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.27%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.21%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.15%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.32%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.37%20AM.png
 

rubybeth

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Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,568
lapelirroja|1334078602|3167576 said:
NachosForTwo|1334077536|3167554 said:
Even on sites like James Allen, I'm not really sure what a photograph really helps you gauge other than maybe color and clarity.

Umm....especially with fancy cuts the photograph lets you see the FACETING pattern that will be really important.

Look how different

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1469204.asp

looks compared to

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1342400.asp
(good lord that one is UGLY!)

or

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS2-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1381824.asp

or

THIS http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1466060.asp

Worlds different!

Oh, wow, those are great examples of what a photo can tell you! I would love to have tha I VVS2 (3rd one) as it looks like the bigger sister of my .55 I VS2.

Once you get photos, Nachos, please post them and you will get very helpful feedback. Really, fancy cuts require photos to gauge how well they will perform. Take this one from GOG as an example:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4366/

The numbers are very different from the numbers you posted. To me, that would be a really nice square radiant. It clearly performs well enough to get GOG's Lifetime Guarantee. But that's not to say the the stone you posted is bad, because if you look at the numbers of the 4 stones posted above by the previous poster, all of those numbers are pretty different, and nothing about the 'ugly' one's numbers tells you that it has the strange dark areas and a very prominently large X across the middle.
 

NachosForTwo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
14
onedrop|1334078564|3167574 said:
I have to agree with the posts above, you will need to see this stone or any other radiant cut stone in order to determine whether it's for you. The crown and pavilion angles aren't going to help in this situation because you are not assessing a RB. I did a cursory search for threads about radiants and I came across this one: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/radiant-cut-thoughts.169757/.

You'll notice that in the thread I provided, people were able to give constructive feedback because there were photos and ASET images included. You might also find some valuable info about what to look for with radiants if you read through the entire thing. If you are interested in the stone you posted about, you may want to request additional images and photos to really be able to assess the stone. You can also post the images here when and if you get them to see what others say. If the vendor you are working with can't provide the right information, you may want to try one or more of the PS vendors who can help you find a stone within your budget and quality requirements.

Here is another very recent thread about radiants that you might want to check out: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...evaluated-on-pricescope.170446/?hilit=radiant

And Gypsy is a "she" not a "he."

Thanks for the direction, I definitely appreciate it.

slg47|1334078889|3167583 said:
the photo doesn't tell you color and clarity. look at the photos...the appearances for radiants are very varied!!!

here are different diamonds, all radiant cut...


Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.27%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.21%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.15%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.32%20AM.png
Screen%20Shot%202012-04-10%20at%2010.21.37%20AM.png

Yeah, you're right, there is a lot of variation. I can definitely tell an ugly diamond like the one lapelirroja posted above, but aside from that is there a certain appearance I should be looking for, or is it just personal preference?
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,568
NachosForTwo|1334079644|3167590 said:
Yeah, you're right, there is a lot of variation. I can definitely tell an ugly diamond like the one lapelirroja posted above, but aside from that is there a certain appearance I should be looking for, or is it just personal preference?

Part of it is personal preference, since some people don't like the 'crushed ice' look of some radiants, but others do and prefer that to a clearer X-shaped faceting pattern like in the 1st photo in slg's examples. My radiant is more like the 1st photo and the GOG example I posted, and the ASET image was a good mix of red and green (more red than green), so I feel like the more 'organized' looking cut may perform better. I don't know what's going on in the middle of some of the stones slg posted, and I'm not sure I want to. :lol:
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
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NachosForTwo|1334074842|3167526 said:
Gypsy|1334074525|3167521 said:
NachosForTwo|1334074189|3167513 said:
The website didn't have any pictures, when I get some I'll post them. I'm just trying to figure out if based on the numbers, this is a diamond worth pursuing.

With radiants and all fancies the numbers don't tell you anything sorry. I can't even give you odds on whether it is going to be nice or not.


I understand that seeing the stone first-hand is very important, but that's not going to happen unless I buy it and have it shipped to me. All the research I've done online suggests that numbers do play a significant part in the cut of a diamond and can help you narrow down your choices when shopping online.

Hi and welcome,

Is this a virtual stone? Can you have a trusted PS vendor call it in and analyze it for you?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
9,667
rubybeth|1334080045|3167595 said:
NachosForTwo|1334079644|3167590 said:
Yeah, you're right, there is a lot of variation. I can definitely tell an ugly diamond like the one lapelirroja posted above, but aside from that is there a certain appearance I should be looking for, or is it just personal preference?

Part of it is personal preference, since some people don't like the 'crushed ice' look of some radiants, but others do and prefer that to a clearer X-shaped faceting pattern like in the 1st photo in slg's examples. My radiant is more like the 1st photo and the GOG example I posted, and the ASET image was a good mix of red and green (more red than green), so I feel like the more 'organized' looking cut may perform better. I don't know what's going on in the middle of some of the stones slg posted, and I'm not sure I want to. :lol:

haha those were illustrative, not necessarily recommended stones :)
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,568
slg47|1334080489|3167605 said:
rubybeth|1334080045|3167595 said:
NachosForTwo|1334079644|3167590 said:
Yeah, you're right, there is a lot of variation. I can definitely tell an ugly diamond like the one lapelirroja posted above, but aside from that is there a certain appearance I should be looking for, or is it just personal preference?

Part of it is personal preference, since some people don't like the 'crushed ice' look of some radiants, but others do and prefer that to a clearer X-shaped faceting pattern like in the 1st photo in slg's examples. My radiant is more like the 1st photo and the GOG example I posted, and the ASET image was a good mix of red and green (more red than green), so I feel like the more 'organized' looking cut may perform better. I don't know what's going on in the middle of some of the stones slg posted, and I'm not sure I want to. :lol:

haha those were illustrative, not necessarily recommended stones :)

Oh, I know, slg! They are good examples of how different radiants can look. In the 2nd to the last image, it looks like the inclusion is reflecting in the stone and showing up on both sides, thus tripling the look of inclusions. Yikes! :shock:

Edited to add: Nachos, is this a stone you are buying for yourself or someone else? If for someone else, has the person indicated that they want a radiant cut? If so, they might have a vision in mind of the faceting pattern that they prefer.
 

onedrop

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,216
Those images are definitely illustrative! Gosh, I had no idea that there were so many different facet patterns for radiants. So yeah, pictures can tell a LOT of the story! Thanks to slg for posting the images and lapelirroja for providing the links.
 

NachosForTwo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
14
onedrop|1334081519|3167620 said:
Those images are definitely illustrative! Gosh, I had no idea that there were so many different facet patterns for radiants. So yeah, pictures can tell a LOT of the story! Thanks to slg for posting the images and lapelirroja for providing the links.

It's for my girlfriend. She wants a radiant, but I don't really think she knows enough about them to tell me what kind she wants. Whatever I buy she'll be very happy with, just want to make sure I get the best rock for my money!
 

Rockdiamond

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Trade
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Messages
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HI Everyone,
Nachos- interesting subject around here- radiant cut diamonds.

As you read the debates, it may become clear that there's different streams of thought about what the desired look for a radiant cut diamond is.
Photos can tell a lot- however they can also give an incomplete idea of some very vital aspects.
A diamond that mimics a round in the way it handles light- such as an H&A type of stone will photograph completely differently than a diamond cut more like the inventor of the Radiant cut conceived. The Original Radiant cut diamond was invented by late Henry Grossbard in the late '70s- and his son carries on the legacy.
When I say photographs differently, the different types of cuts really use the light differently, requiring different methods to produce a photo that captures the essence.
For example, a setup for stones that are photographed sitting in a tray favors the stones cut more like a round brilliant.
We could photograph, or take a video of a diamond in that manner which would produce virtually opposite results to photographing that stone in a four prong setting, for example.

Best of luck in your search!!
 
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