Thoughts on this AGS diamond

[LALove]

Hi all

I'm helping my sister's boyfriend find a RB diamond to propose with

He's dead set on D color (tried talking him into E,F or G to go larger in carat weight but he's stuck on D) and she want an ideal cut. 1.7-2+ carat range, eye clean.

I was given this cert (just going off certs first- I'll be sure to get images, ASET, Ideal Scope etc when one looks like it could be it).

I have to check out if it's eye clean. Any thoughts on this just based on the cert? It scores 2.1 on HCA...

Also, where is cut listed on the AGS cert?

Thanks so much in advance!

Don't know why the pic is so small...

AGS 0004435806, Nov 3, 2003
7.94-8.09-5.05mm
2.018
62.9 depth
53 table
medium to slightly thick, faceted
cutlet very small

polish: ex
symmetry: ex

SI2
36.1 crown
40.6 pavilion

$15,000 is the price....

 

[Stephan]

This is a very old cert.
And if I had to buy a D color, I only would trust GIA.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto, very old grading report.

 

[LALove]

Thanks guys! I thought the same thing... Is the cert being old an indication that it's not so great- and that's why it's still on the market?

Why only D color from GIA?

 

[Stephan]

Thanks guys! I thought the same thing... Is the cert being old an indication that it's not so great- and that's why it's still on the market?

Look at the clarity plot, I don't think it will be eye clean.
Who is the seller?

Why only D color from GIA?

You can read here some consumer experience:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-ags-too-lenient.153671/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-ags-softer-than-gia-in-color-grading.115118/

 

[Siamese Kitty]

This is a very old cert.
And if I had to buy a D color, I only would trust GIA.

Ditto the old cert, but Stephan my friend, you are going to scare people silly with this AGS vs GIA thing!

Granted after your experience recently, I can totally understand your apprehension.

That said, I just had three colorless AGS stones check out as graded or better.

All of this to say, I think it just depends. It would be prudent to have an appraisal regardless. Hopefully, he would be buying from someone who would make good on the situation if there were a discrepancy.

 

[Stephan]

That said, I just had three colorless AGS stones check out as graded or better.

By GIA?

 

[LALove]

Whichever stone my sister's boyfriend chooses will be sent to an independent appraiser.

I've decided to pass on this one-- the cert being from so long ago makes me

Thanks everyone! I'll be back soon with another one Hahaha

 

[Stephan]

Ditto the old cert, but Stephan my friend, you are going to scare people silly with this AGS vs GIA thing!

If you can find me a topic where consumer experience AGS grades color stricter than GIA, then I'll stop.
I won't talk about this for other people buying other colors AGS diamonds, only when they are about to buy a D color.
That's a lot of money.

 

[Lula]

Ditto the old cert, but Stephan my friend, you are going to scare people silly with this AGS vs GIA thing!

If you can find me a topic where consumer experience AGS grades color stricter than GIA, then I'll stop.
I won't talk about this for other people buying other colors AGS diamonds, only when they are about to buy a D color.
That's a lot of money.

I just looked at the two threads you linked. There's nothing in those threads that supports your assertion that AGS is softer on color grading. What there is, is anecdotal evidence from a few PS'ers about their own diamonds. There's also a lot of valuable input from one cutter and at least one appraiser in those threads, too, that don't support your assertions.

A GIA or AGS human grader grades the color of hundreds and thousands of diamonds. Human beings are not perfect. There will be some margin of error in any grading system. There may be a shift over time in standards for any lab.

Appraisers are human, too, and some appraisers may be tougher than others on their interpretation of color grades. Again, variations in human eyesight, years of experience, office lighting vs. natural lighting, geographic locale (the quality of light is different in Antwerp than it is in Miami, e.g.) produce many sources for error. There are too many variables specific to an individual consumers' experience to generalize it to the whole system.

I'm not saying that what happened to you, Queen Mum, is not true; I'm just saying you cannot generalize your individual experience to the entire system. That's faulty logic. I need more proof than just a few instances.

As far as how "safe" a D grade is, what I'd like to see as "evidence" is the percentage of stones graded as D color from both labs over a period of many years. If the percentage is going up, over time, in one lab over another, you may be able to make the correlational argument that the lab is getting "softer" on color grading -- unless there is a lot more D color rough coming out of the ground.

ETA: To the OP, if this diamond is a contender, it might be worth asking the store to send it in to be regraded by AGS or GIA so it has a more up-to-date cert that includes the latest information on cut quality. The clarity plot on that diamond looks worse than my AGS I1 clarity diamond (graded in 200. So I'd really want a more up-to-date cert on that stone. Hmm, that's anecdotal evidence that AGS may be stricter on clarity than GIA! Take it for what it's worth -- not much.

 

[yssie]

old report - could've sat on the market or more likely IMO, it is a trade-in, in which case it should be re-certed as if the diamond was set and worn, it may not be in the same condition as it was when sold - chipped/scratched/etc.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Ditto the old cert, but Stephan my friend, you are going to scare people silly with this AGS vs GIA thing!

If you can find me a topic where consumer experience AGS grades color stricter than GIA, then I'll stop.
I won't talk about this for other people buying other colors AGS diamonds, only when they are about to buy a D color.
That's a lot of money.

I put this in another thread, but I'm not sure if you saw it.

I had him look at 2 AGS E's and an AGS F. One of the E's he thought was a D-E, the others were spot on.

I also had him look at the pear in my avatar, a GIA D. This is the only stone that caused him pause, though he eventually agreed it was a D.

He used diamond masters and has a good educational/professional background, so I think he was trustworthy.

I agree about the D being a lot of money, and I think if color is that important an appraisal is a must. I probably should have had mine appraised independently sooner, though it turned out okay.

Don't get me wrong-the AGS vs GIA thing crossed my mind when I bought my most recent E, hence the appraisal.

This is only one person's experience, however, and I admit that.

Sorry for the threadjack to the op!

ed sp

 

[LALove]

old report - could've sat on the market or more likely IMO, it is a trade-in, in which case it should be re-certed as if the diamond was set and worn, it may not be in the same condition as it was when sold - chipped/scratched/etc.

Ooohh.. that's a really good point Yssie! Thanks!!

 

[Stephan]

I just looked at the two threads you linked. There's nothing in those threads that supports your assertion that AGS is softer on color grading. What there is, is anecdotal evidence from a few PS'ers about their own diamonds. There's also a lot of valuable input from one cutter and at least one appraiser in those threads, too, that don't support your assertions.

Hi Lula,

If you read the topic
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-ags-softer-than-gia-in-color-grading.115118/
consumers (Dancing Fire, Kelli, elle_chris, megeve) are having the same experience than me.
elle_chris is talking about 10 diamonds, Dancing Fire 2, ...
I wrote about 3 diamonds.

So just find me a topic where consumers experience softer grading by GIA, the rest is bla bla bla.

 

[LALove]

No problem on the thread jack-- thread jack away!

I'm done with my original question and I really appreciate the extra points of view on the AGS vs GIA topic. I've read SO much on diamonds but feel like I've only learned about 10% of what there is to know-- and because I'm missing so much knowledge, I find that I sometimes inadvertently take someones opinion as fact when it may not be. So much appreciated!

 

[Stephan]

I find that I sometimes inadvertently take someones opinion as fact when it may not be.

Good luck to your sisters boyfriend with an eye clean D-SI2.

 

[LALove]

I find that I sometimes inadvertently take someones opinion as fact when it may not be.

Good luck to your sisters boyfriend with an eye clean D-SI2.

I did not mean to offend you and sincerely apologize if I did. I could have worded it better. All I meant was that there is so much that I do not know about diamonds that it is good to hear all opinions/sides, so that I may come up with my own informed decision or opinion, especially on matters where there is room for debate. I appreciate the information you gave me and will put it to use by ensuring that whichever stone is ultimately chosen is sent to a qualified appraiser before final purchase. Thanks again!

 

[Stephan]

Thank you, I'm very susceptible but not vindictive.
I apologize too for my overreaction.
I really just wanted to help.
But some of my comments are not welcome on this forum.

So, even if nobody cares about my meaning , let me add: I wouldn't spend the money for D color if I can't afford at least VS, even VVS clarity. (And I can not afford D color.)
My personal meaning is that combos like D-SI2 or D + fluorescence are weird.
I am the disruptive element.

 

[LALove]

Thank you, I'm very susceptible but not vindictive.
I apologize too for my overreaction.
I really just wanted to help.
But some of my comments are not welcome on this forum.

So, even if nobody cares about my meaning , let me add: I wouldn't spend the money for D color if I can't afford at least VS, even VVS clarity. (And I can not afford D color.)
My personal meaning is that combos like D-SI2 or D + fluorescence are weird.
I am the disruptive element.

No problem! I truly appreciate anyone who is
Willing to spend their valuable time posting here to help out the new guys like me!

He's not actually looking for SI2- that's just the first option I was given. He's only adamant on D color and only because he's under the impression (which I cannot disabuse him of- though I've tried) that any other color is "yellow" - he could save a lot of money or get a bigger stone if he went down but still stayed in the colorless range. Oh well, it's his money and at least I get to live vicariously through him hehe

 

[stone-cold11]

Did you show him the GOG video on color?

 

[LALove]

Did you show him the GOG video on color?

I did actually- he thought it was great but still thinks he can detect a hint of yellow in E and below.. Oh well. At least he now knows how important cut is