shape
carat
color
clarity

Thoughts on this 1.3ct natural round?

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
75C1603F-21CD-42FC-B399-D456F9BF8858.jpeg

hi all! I am considering to buy this stone. It is of E colour, 3EX SI1 with faint fluorescence.
The 360 video is here: https://assets.ddpl.com/video/USBGA075

I also took a video myself for its scintillation here.But it’s the first time I pick a diamond, and I’m not sure it is actually brilliant.
What do you think about the large crystal there? What do you think is the reasonable price for this?
Thanks so much!
 
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Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
What's the clarity on that one? Will help to sort of paint the picture of how seriously to take those inclusions...
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
What's the clarity on that one? Will help to sort of paint the picture of how seriously to take those inclusions...

It’s an SI1. Sorry for typo

I also updated above with the video I took. No idea if it’s sparking nicely.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
Proportions are within ideal range that we suggest. Arrows aren't perfectly symmetrical but decent.

Inclusions don't appear to be problematic. Inspecting in person I would want to make sure the small black crystal located in the middle of the table & the larger white crystal at the 7 o'clock position in the upper girdle facet (near edge of diamond) are not detectable to the naked eye.

What is the exact carat weight & dimensions of the stone listed on the cert? I can plug all that data into the HCA calculator (or you can do yourself) and get an idea what sort of light return, fire, scintillation & spread to expect.


Based on the proportions I'm seeing I'd expect it to kick back about a 0.9 with excellent in all categories, except spread which would likely be very good and a "looks like" score of big.

Finally, the stone has nice fire based on the user video you posted. Overall, a very nice find. I'd consider buying as long as the price checks out.

If you want some added assurance on light performance, you could buy a handheld ASET or idealscope and take in the store with you to see how well it performs. Given what I've seen thus far, I'd expect good results.

Capture.PNG
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
11,461
Don’t love the dark inclusion on the table. Make sure you’re ok with it. What’s the return policy? It looks pretty at first glance but I don’t trust my eyes with videos with jewelry store lighting.
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
Proportions are within ideal range that we suggest. Arrows aren't perfectly symmetrical but decent.

Inclusions don't appear to be problematic. Inspecting in person I would want to make sure the small black crystal located in the middle of the table & the larger white crystal at the 7 o'clock position in the upper girdle facet (near edge of diamond) are not detectable to the naked eye.

What is the exact carat weight & dimensions of the stone listed on the cert? I can plug all that data into the HCA calculator (or you can do yourself) and get an idea what sort of light return, fire, scintillation & spread to expect.


Based on the proportions I'm seeing I'd expect it to kick back about a 0.9 with excellent in all categories, except spread which would likely be very good and a "looks like" score of big.

Finally, the stone has nice fire based on the user video you posted. Overall, a very nice find. I'd consider buying as long as the price checks out.

If you want some added assurance on light performance, you could buy a handheld ASET or idealscope and take in the store with you to see how well it performs. Given what I've seen thus far, I'd expect good results.

Capture.PNG

Thank you so much for your reply sledge.

I took a look last time in the shop. I did not know the largest crystal is black until I watched the 360 video, and it is not quite detectable to naked eyes. The middle crystal is hard to notice for me.

I took the video under store's spotlight. Does it shine that much under normal light condition?

Unfortunately I do not have an ASET scope or ideal scope so I could not confirm if the light performance is good. It is priced at $8000, sounds to be a fair price for me when comparing to other stones with smaller carat/lower clarity,colour

This is the GIA certificate. It would be great if you could compute the HCA score for me.

Thanks again!
 
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armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
Don’t love the dark inclusion on the table. Make sure you’re ok with it. What’s the return policy? It looks pretty at first glance but I don’t trust my eyes with videos with jewelry store lighting.

Is it a large inclusion to you? For me a layman it is acceptable as long as my naked eyes cannot see it.

I am buying this in a small shop, so I guess it cannot be returned once purchased.
 
Last edited:

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
11,461
Is it a large inclusion to you? For me a layman it is acceptable as long as my naked eyes cannot see it.

I am buying this in a small shop, so I guess it cannot be returned once purchased.

No, it's not a large inclusion. Looks like you said you cannot see it, which is great because it's eye clean to you. If you think it's fine and it's sparkly and pretty, yeah a serious contender.

HCA = .9

I took the video under store's spotlight. Does it shine that much under normal light condition?
No, but that's true for every diamond. Not an issue.
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
No, it's not a large inclusion. Looks like you said you cannot see it, which is great because it's eye clean to you. If you think it's fine and it's sparkly and pretty, yeah a serious contender.

Thanks for your reply LLJsmom. Do you personally find it sparky (after watching my video)?
 

musicloveranthony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
299
It looks nicely cut. I would ask to take it outside and look at it in the shade outside (or in the dappled sunlight under a tree if possible). See if you like it there. If so, and if the price is right then go for it! :)
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
No, it's not a large inclusion. Looks like you said you cannot see it, which is great because it's eye clean to you. If you think it's fine and it's sparkly and pretty, yeah a serious contender.

HCA = .9

I took the video under store's spotlight. Does it shine that much under normal light condition?
No, but that's true for every diamond. Not an issue.

I am glad to hear that! Thanks so much for your advice! :mrgreen2:
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
It looks nicely cut. I would ask to take it outside and look at it in the shade outside (or in the dappled sunlight under a tree if possible). See if you like it there. If so, and if the price is right then go for it! :)

Anthony, how much do you think the stone should price at? The shop is pricing at $8000, do you find it fair?

could you look at this for me too? The price is more or less the same.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
This is the GIA certificate. It would be great if you could compute the HCA score for me.

Thanks again!

Based on the proportions I'm seeing I'd expect it to kick back about a 0.9 with excellent in all categories, except spread which would likely be very good and a "looks like" score of big.

Looks like I guessed pretty good.

Capture.PNG
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
I took a look last time in the shop. I did not know the largest crystal is black until I watched the 360 video, and it is not quite detectable to naked eyes. The middle crystal is hard to notice for me.

For clarification, the only BLACK crystal I saw was directly on the table. It was small. I don't anticipate an issue. I was being cautious because of the color.

The large crystal is near the edge of the diamond and looks whitish to me. I wasn't implying it was too large, but rather that was the largest crystal plotted on the clarity plot.

There are other crystals located on the stone, but they are small like the black crystal and appear to be more clear in color than black or white. Obviously you need to carefully inspect the stone, but I don't anticipate those being an issue.

Graphic attached to help provide clarity.


Capture.PNG


I took the video under store's spotlight. Does it shine that much under normal light condition?

Jeweler's spend lots on their lighting so that ALL stones look good in the store. I still think your stone is very promising based on what we have available; however, I would encourage you to look at it under a variety of different lighting environments.

Perhaps a back office with standard fluorescent overhead lighting. Near a window where the sunlight is NOT directly shining on you or the stone. Outside in INDIRECT sunlight. Whatever other areas they may have available. You will likely need to be escorted, but lighting can make or break a diamond.


Unfortunately I do not have an ASET scope or ideal scope so I could not confirm if the light performance is good.

David Atlas (forum member @oldminer) sells both ASET & IS scopes to US residents. ASET scope is $50 and IS scope beginner is $25.

https://datlas.com/diamond-grading-tools/


Alternatively, you can buy an ASET scope for $50 + shipping (about $12 or so) directly from AGS if you prefer.

https://www.americangemsociety.org/membership/education-old/handheld-aset/
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
It is priced at $8000, sounds to be a fair price for me when comparing to other stones with smaller carat/lower clarity,colour

From my analysis, I think $8,000 is a pretty fair price. I used this little tool to compose my spreadsheet. You could obviously change variables and might get a slightly different result but I think this is fairly representative.


Also, I spent some time searching the web using PS diamond search tool and individual websites looking for something better. Something may exist, but nothing jumped out to me immediately. Oddly enough I even crawled multiple super ideal vendors and didn't see anything in the 1.30+ range that didn't break your budget.

There is this 1.277 from VC, but it's about $2k more expensive:

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/K9M9EK/1.277ct-F-SI1-hearts-arrows-round-natural-diamond

This is a 1.21 "near miss" super ideal from WF that is on budget. It says it's eye clean, so it might be a contender but you are giving up some carat weight & about 0.20mm spread.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4107650.htm

The biggest issue being I didn't see much stock of super ideals in the size, higher color range and dollars that you have available to spend.

Hope this is helpful.

Capture.PNG
 

munchee

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
617
@armani51 if you’re OK with the inclusion, if it doesn’t bother you, as everyone is different in this case. For me, I’m ok for Si1 if its totally eyeclean and if I zoom it in for pictures it still didn’t show anything if its for pendant, studs. For ring, I prefer VS1&VS2, but if its really looked clean in the video and only 1 spot of unnoticeable inclusion I’m still OK with Si1.

How about you/the one who’s going to wear this ring? Everyone is different, if you’re ok with the inclusion, you need to get this size and this color and you/the wearer isn’t too picky, I think the price is good because at the moment we can’t find lower price with that cut, carat, color and clarity.
If you’re looking for a bing, true white diamond, if you take it away from jewelry light and it doesn’t look dead (is the center appear black and looks blocked), does it still sparkly under normal light and if after you zoom in when you take pictures you still can’t see any inclusion, it’s good buy. But if you’re looking for something more sparkly there might be better diamonds out there, but its going to be significantly smaller in that size, and/or in lower color and even if you sacrificed these, it’s still probably more expensive.
 

musicloveranthony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
299
Zoom the video to the smallest setting and step back until the diamond is the size that it is in real life. Can you see the inclusion? I highly doubt it. It's a great price and it's a well cut diamond. If you're happy with it I think you should go for it.

There's always going to be a "better" whatever it is you're looking at, but that doesn't mean it's better for you or better for your circumstances or needs. Don't get too caught up on that because it's a never ending cycle :)

I'd say buy it if it makes your eyes and your wallet happy.
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
Thanks so much to everyone! I am very impressed by your professional and detailed replies!

The following 2 are my 2nd and 3rd choice.

2nd choice (1.25,D SI1,3Ex and faint ($7800)
Here is the certificate
There are some crystal which are white/grey.

42F2A813-A902-4142-BBF3-AE0FC61036FD.jpeg

1.25.jpg


3rd choice is smaller, 1carat, F SI1, 3Ex and faint ($5800)
A feather at the side, which is not quite detectable with naked eyes and quite narrow as well.
Certificate here
3rd choice.png

2366664974.JPG

It seems to me HCA score of around 2 is quite good.
Cannot make my mind on which to pick.

At the very beginning, I valued carat the most, since I think the size is what comes first when people look at the diamond. However, after researching and several visits to diamond stores, I realise cut is also important.

I am actually not quite sure if the diamond is really sparky or not. Is the brilliance shown (in the video which I took)is the common case?
 

musicloveranthony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
299
I still really like the one you chose as #1.
Diamond #2 I don't like as much. I don't think it has proportions that are going to give it the sparkle you seek.
Diamond #3 is nicely cut but not as nicely as the one you chose as #1 - the angles are very nice, it's a little bit wonky on the symmetry.

I sincerely think you made a solid choice.
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
For clarification, the only BLACK crystal I saw was directly on the table. It was small. I don't anticipate an issue. I was being cautious because of the color.

The large crystal is near the edge of the diamond and looks whitish to me. I wasn't implying it was too large, but rather that was the largest crystal plotted on the clarity plot.

There are other crystals located on the stone, but they are small like the black crystal and appear to be more clear in color than black or white. Obviously you need to carefully inspect the stone, but I don't anticipate those being an issue.

Graphic attached to help provide clarity.


Capture.PNG




Jeweler's spend lots on their lighting so that ALL stones look good in the store. I still think your stone is very promising based on what we have available; however, I would encourage you to look at it under a variety of different lighting environments.

Perhaps a back office with standard fluorescent overhead lighting. Near a window where the sunlight is NOT directly shining on you or the stone. Outside in INDIRECT sunlight. Whatever other areas they may have available. You will likely need to be escorted, but lighting can make or break a diamond.




David Atlas (forum member @oldminer) sells both ASET & IS scopes to US residents. ASET scope is $50 and IS scope beginner is $25.

https://datlas.com/diamond-grading-tools/


Alternatively, you can buy an ASET scope for $50 + shipping (about $12 or so) directly from AGS if you prefer.

https://www.americangemsociety.org/membership/education-old/handheld-aset/

Hi sledge
Thank you for letting me know. I did not know that is called white instead.
6477A1B1-E2B6-49D3-B2C9-92240A5936FF.jpeg
What are these white dots in green circles? Are they the ‘shadows’ of crystals?
Comparing to the diamond on VC and WF, it seems that my price is fair.
Since I don’t live in the US, so I am afraid it takes some time for the scopes to arrive. I guess it would still purchase them, since I am getting interested in diamonds :lol:
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
@armani51 if you’re OK with the inclusion, if it doesn’t bother you, as everyone is different in this case. For me, I’m ok for Si1 if its totally eyeclean and if I zoom it in for pictures it still didn’t show anything if its for pendant, studs. For ring, I prefer VS1&VS2, but if its really looked clean in the video and only 1 spot of unnoticeable inclusion I’m still OK with Si1.

How about you/the one who’s going to wear this ring? Everyone is different, if you’re ok with the inclusion, you need to get this size and this color and you/the wearer isn’t too picky, I think the price is good because at the moment we can’t find lower price with that cut, carat, color and clarity.
If you’re looking for a bing, true white diamond, if you take it away from jewelry light and it doesn’t look dead (is the center appear black and looks blocked), does it still sparkly under normal light and if after you zoom in when you take pictures you still can’t see any inclusion, it’s good buy. But if you’re looking for something more sparkly there might be better diamonds out there, but its going to be significantly smaller in that size, and/or in lower color and even if you sacrificed these, it’s still probably more expensive.

Hi munchee! Thanks for your reply.
You are correct. I am always more picky than my girlfriend.
I would check the inclusions again and make my mind! I am so happy to discover this forum!
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
Zoom the video to the smallest setting and step back until the diamond is the size that it is in real life. Can you see the inclusion? I highly doubt it. It's a great price and it's a well cut diamond. If you're happy with it I think you should go for it.

There's always going to be a "better" whatever it is you're looking at, but that doesn't mean it's better for you or better for your circumstances or needs. Don't get too caught up on that because it's a never ending cycle :)

I'd say buy it if it makes your eyes and your wallet happy.

Thank you for your advice! I agree with what you said. It’s more important to balance different aspects with a certain budget.
 

munchee

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
617
Hi munchee! Thanks for your reply.
You are correct. I am always more picky than my girlfriend.
I would check the inclusions again and make my mind! I am so happy to discover this forum!

Don’t forget, nowadays most people love taking pictures of everything!!! Even if the inclusion looks eyeclean in normal distance viewing, but while taking pictures, she might zoom it :D and if it can be seen in the picture, you need to ask her/yourself if she’ll be fine with it. Try taking pictures of it with 2.5x zoom and see if you can see it.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
Hi sledge
Thank you for letting me know. I did not know that is called white instead.
6477A1B1-E2B6-49D3-B2C9-92240A5936FF.jpeg
What are these white dots in green circles? Are they the ‘shadows’ of crystals?
Comparing to the diamond on VC and WF, it seems that my price is fair.
Since I don’t live in the US, so I am afraid it takes some time for the scopes to arrive. I guess it would still purchase them, since I am getting interested in diamonds :lol:

Those white dots are the other crystals shown on the clarity plot of the cert. I didn’t note them as they look more clear than white and due to size I didn’t feel were a concern.

I circled the small black because of the color. The other circled because it looked more white instead of clear and because it was larger.

In regards to the scopes, @Garry H (Cut Nut) can sell you an ideal scope directly since you are an international customer (he is based in Australia). He is the inventor of the IS scope and if you search for his website it will have images, etc to show you how to read. I am in traffic or would get you links.

As far as the new stones I would reject both 2 and 3.

Stone 2 is a 60/60 style but pavilion is 41.2 and with GIA gross rounding will likely push further on a few of the actual s. Also per the HCA, all the values are only very good as opposed to excellent.

Stone 3 has a very steep crown. It may work. Depends on actual values but again with GIA gross rounding, it is a weaker candidate than stone 1.

Since you are open to variety in size and color I can look for alternates tonight. Are you open to G color? That may open up some better options.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,206
I forgot to ask, what country are you located in? Also did your budget include allowances for VAT, duties, taxes, etc.
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
I forgot to ask, what country are you located in? Also did your budget include allowances for VAT, duties, taxes, etc.

I am from Hong Kong! Not sure if VAT and other taxes are applicable here.
Although online stores (for eg JA, BN) have return policies, it might be a bit time consuming for the return process and extra cost on shipping (in case I was not happy with the quality) so I would probably prefer buying diamonds in stock.
If with your professional advice you also see the stone fit then I am going to pick it very likely.

I would also get the two scopes too! I would look into details for that!
 

armani51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
18
I still really like the one you chose as #1.
Diamond #2 I don't like as much. I don't think it has proportions that are going to give it the sparkle you seek.
Diamond #3 is nicely cut but not as nicely as the one you chose as #1 - the angles are very nice, it's a little bit wonky on the symmetry.

I sincerely think you made a solid choice.

Anthony, thanks a lot for your advice!
 
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