this is bound to sound a little cryptic...

[AceP]

but, i''m putting it out there anyway. have any of you ever considered cheating on your bf''s? what i''m talking about here is being basically happy in a committed relationship, but sort of freaking out and making out with someone else. or, just carrying on a dangerous flirtation that borders on emotional cheating. do you think this constitutes a necessary end to the relationship? is it possible to have a legitimate - but ultimately benign - freak-out when you''re staring down engagement, marriage, a lifetime tethered to one person, no matter how much you love him? i''m curious what everyone''s opinions are - this is something that has come up frequently recently among my circle of friends.

 

[Patchee]

If you REALLLLLY love, respect & trust your boyfriend there should not even be a thought of such in your mind. Your looking for something else, hence: not happy with your current man if you feel the need to look elsewhere. For me it has not even - ever been a thought. But, to each their own. Someone else would have to live with that guilt, no me.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Been there. But I must say that these ''freak outs" are probably their subconscious talking. most of the time IMO they have dont it because deep down they really were not ready to commit to a life long situation. Everyone will flirt, if you dont your lying. everyone does it on a certain level and people think its flattering to know someone out there still has feelings for them or could have feelings for them. thats my 2c.

 

[marvel]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:08:40 PM
Author:AceP
but, i'm putting it out there anyway. have any of you ever considered cheating on your bf's? what i'm talking about here is being basically happy in a committed relationship, but sort of freaking out and making out with someone else. or, just carrying on a dangerous flirtation that borders on emotional cheating. do you think this constitutes a necessary end to the relationship? is it possible to have a legitimate - but ultimately benign - freak-out when you're staring down engagement, marriage, a lifetime tethered to one person, no matter how much you love him? i'm curious what everyone's opinions are - this is something that has come up frequently recently among my circle of friends.

These are all humongous red flags. If someone is flirting, making out, bordering on emotional cheating...they are definately not in a happy committed relationship, or at least not ready to commit to one person. Freaking-out is just an excuse to ignore the obvious problem.

Edit to add: Flirting that borders on emotional cheating is way dangerous. I have to agree, that innocent flirting happens.

 

[FireGoddess]

Never considered it once. And if it were done to me...I''d call off the engagement. These are definitely red flags IMO....that someone is NOT ready to make that commitment.

 

[AceP]

you know, it''s funny - there was a time i would have seen it as black and white, too. but as i''ve gotten older (i''m 29), i''ve started to see divorce and more and more unions that i question. i''ve seen wonderful, happy couples torn apart by life''s events. i guess i''ve just generally begun to see more gray, so that if an engaged friend said, "hey, ace, i''m sort of into this guy at work and it''s getting dangerous," i wouldn''t necessarily see it as relationship-destroying. in some cases, unfortunately, i think people have to test the waters to determine that what they have at home is really the best thing. you guys all think i''m crazy? it''s okay - i can take it!

 

[janinegirly]

sorry, but i do think it''s crazy. it has noting to do with getting older (I''m older than you, and feel that less than ever). I have no interest in testing the waters or even innocent flirting. it either means you (or whoever) are unhappy in the relationship and looking for distractions, or lacking self esteem and get a rush out of pushing the envelope. Both are big red flags and only lead to hurt. I don''t really see any mitigating factors.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:30:04 PM
Author: AceP
you know, it''s funny - there was a time i would have seen it as black and white, too. but as i''ve gotten older (i''m 29), i''ve started to see divorce and more and more unions that i question. i''ve seen wonderful, happy couples torn apart by life''s events. i guess i''ve just generally begun to see more gray, so that if an engaged friend said, ''hey, ace, i''m sort of into this guy at work and it''s getting dangerous,'' i wouldn''t necessarily see it as relationship-destroying. in some cases, unfortunately, i think people have to test the waters to determine that what they have at home is really the best thing. you guys all think i''m crazy? it''s okay - i can take it!

I think that if you are testing the waters that means then there is something happening that shouldn''t. Either you need an ego boost or you just want to cheat.

If you want to determine if they have the best thing than they should just go for a break. If you come back to another person then its meant to be if not, oh well. At least you never put the other person through cheating.

 

[stillwaiting]

I agree, I think it''s CRAZY! If you are having feeling or getting close with someone else then the feelings you have for your sig other might not be genuine. If my guy got close with another girl I would be furious, and would take the hint that he no longer had those feelings for me. If your committed you would not be having those feelings for another!

 

[marvel]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:30:04 PM
Author: AceP
you know, it''s funny - there was a time i would have seen it as black and white, too. but as i''ve gotten older (i''m 29), i''ve started to see divorce and more and more unions that i question. i''ve seen wonderful, happy couples torn apart by life''s events. i guess i''ve just generally begun to see more gray, so that if an engaged friend said, ''hey, ace, i''m sort of into this guy at work and it''s getting dangerous,'' i wouldn''t necessarily see it as relationship-destroying. in some cases, unfortunately, i think people have to test the waters to determine that what they have at home is really the best thing. you guys all think i''m crazy? it''s okay - i can take it!

how is that not considered relationship-destorying? I''d be devasted if my b/f was this dangerously close to someone at work. If the waters need to be tested, they should do it on there own time...not while their significant other is sitting at home waiting...let''s be honest with the other person, don''t do it behind there backs.

btw: i''m older then you...not sure if that means much.

 

[musey]

I heard a psychologist on the radio once say that any time someone cheats, it''s because they''re getting something from that other person that they''re not getting from their relationship. It doesn''t matter what that thing is, it could be sexual satisfaction or emotional support or whatever. Bottom line is that if you''re tempted to look elsewhere, it means whatever you have "at home" isn''t fulfilling enough for you. Although that may seem really obvious, I think it doesn''t necessarily cross our mind once we''re in the situation.

It may not have to be a (or THE) "break up" factor (everyone has different standards for infidelity and forgiveness, it''s whatever it is to that couple). It''s just a big red flag screaming "something''s missing here."

 

[ephemery1]

I think it's an interesting question... and I'm actually surprised by the vehement reactions... I don't think it's totally black and white either. In a perfect world, two people would commit to each other and never look at another person again. In the real world, two people commit to each other but still WILL face temptation at some point in the course of their next 50 years together. I also think a natural human response to hurtling forward in one direction (toward marriage, settling down with one person) is to dig in your heels and push back in the other direction (toward "singledom", having the freedom to flirt or kiss or do whatever with whoever you want), even if only briefly. Not to mention after years in the same relationship, it doesn't seem unusual to want to prove "you've still got it". But the true moral question is how you deal with those natural feelings.

Personally, I faced a similar question when an ex of mine (complicated, emotional relationship) was going through some tough times about six months ago and he wanted to meet up as friends to talk. As tempting as it was to think "I'm a free person, I know I love my boyfriend, why shouldn't I meet up with an old friend to help him through this?" I ultimately decided not to. It just didn't feel right.

For me, it all comes down to "do unto others..." If I'm thinking about doing something that would upset me if my fiance were doing it, then I know I've gone too far. The golden rule still applies, even after all these years.

 

[AmberWaves]

I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't want it done by my BF, either. I've always been of the thought that if you're not happy thinking you're with this one person, and that person only, you shouldn't be with them. I guess I've always been a serial monogamist, and expect my bf to either be one with me, or tell me before we get really serious. I'm not good with competition, never have been. So if you need to "test the waters" while being in a committed relationship with me, than I'm not the girl for you, and you should find someone else. To me, it's simple, really.

ETA: I would do the same as I said above, if I felt the need to look around to see what else may be out there, than I would realize I'm not with the right person. I freaked out when I got engaged, but when I "sobered up" metaphorically, I realized I had me the correct choice.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:30:04 PM
Author: AceP
you know, it''s funny - there was a time i would have seen it as black and white, too. but as i''ve gotten older (i''m 29), i''ve started to see divorce and more and more unions that i question. i''ve seen wonderful, happy couples torn apart by life''s events. i guess i''ve just generally begun to see more gray, so that if an engaged friend said, ''hey, ace, i''m sort of into this guy at work and it''s getting dangerous,'' i wouldn''t necessarily see it as relationship-destroying. in some cases, unfortunately, i think people have to test the waters to determine that what they have at home is really the best thing. you guys all think i''m crazy? it''s okay - i can take it!

I think this is a different thing than ''testing the waters'' by making out with someone who''s NOT your husband/fiance, or ''carrying on a dangerous flirtation that borders on emotional cheating'', both of which you give as examples in your first post.

You might be intrigued by other people around you, but taking it to those heights listed above is cheating in my book, and someone you are willing to spend the rest of your life with certainly deserves to be treated better than that.

 

[AmberWaves]

I agree with FG, because in those examples, it''s almost like premeditation, like you''re PLANNING on cheating because you''ve spent time thinking about it. If that were me, I''d question how much I really cared about my fiance/bf- if I were willing to risk that.

 

[KristyDarling]

For me personally, it IS black and white, and how old I am has nothing to do with it. Temptation is everywhere, but one of the measures of a happy marriage is how much WORK we put into it....including the work of avoiding temptation. We have to WORK at remembering why we married someone -- even when it''s easy to forget (i.e. when bickering over the monotony of daily life, coming upon the 7-year itch, etc.).

No one ever said marriage would be easy. And that''s precisely why it''s worth committing to. Because working hard together at maintaining a happy, committed, relationship is how you BUILD a good, stable life together. It doesn''t just materialize. If someone is not willing to do that, then they either don''t love their spouse nearly enough, or they are simply not ready to commit to a life of monogamy and shouldn''t be married to anyone.

 

[Mara]

quite honestly, i think it''s human nature to consider quite seriously that before engagement or marriage you are going to tie yourself down permanently til death do you part to one person. it''s a huge committment. if people feel like when contemplating that, you feel paralyzed with fear or tempted then yes, red flags and should be addressed. but if you can consider it with some impartiality and go hmmm would this interest me? do i ever see myself doing this? and the answer is no, you have lived your life, experienced whatever you felt you needed to etc...then cool. does it mean you will never have another thought about someone who isn''t your mate ever again? no way i don''t think so. but would you seriously consider it?

i think that temptation is everywhere as people are hot blooded and some people say that humans are not meant to be monogomous but the one thing that we do have is FREE WILL. people have the free will to say yes or no to those types of situations. thinking about it is not doing it and i think a lot of people would be fooling themselves if they said ''oh i would NEVER consider it'' or ''i have NEVER had those thoughts''. i think that thoughts like that are just part of general makeup. however if you act on them or seriously consider them it''s different than just letting them pass through your mind and laughing and saying no way.

for me personally, in a marriage i think it''s the ultimate disrespect to cheat on your mate. at least have the common decency to admit to your mate that there are problems that might lead you to go elsewhere for somethign that is missing. try to work it out. both people deserve better in a relationship, especially a marriage where vows to God have been taken.

 

[Kaleigh]

I think if you are looking elswhere something might be missing from your relationship?? To me cheating is cheating, and it''s black and white. Not stages or degrees of cheating. Emotional, physical etc... If you have this desire to do so, then you need to step back and take a good look at your relationship with your BF. What is it that you are seeking?? Remember the grass isn''t always greener on the other side.

 

[galeteia]

Ditto on what Mara said.

I also don''t feel it''s black and white, because for me, there is a difference between having one''s eye wander over over an intriguing bit o'' manflesh and have idle ''what if?'' thoughts run through your head, and focusing your attention on someone other than your chosen partner. Is it wrong to be tempted? No. That''s human nature, IMO. Is it wrong to entertain those temptations? Iffy. Is it wrong to act on them? Hell yes!

As it was quoted in another thread, it doesn''t matter what you think, it matters what you do.

I, personally, find temptation to be discomfiting and as a result I consciously avoid situations where I would be tempted. I had something similar to Ephemery''s situation happen to me and I was immediately wary. My behaviour matches the ring I wear on my finger, and I''m not even ''officially'' engaged-- but I still behave as a woman commited to her marriage.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 10/11/2006 6:37:07 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Remember the grass isn''t always greener on the other side.

Even if it is, it''s just as hard to mow!

 

[ladykemma]

dishonoring your relationship, your marriage vows and flirting/emotional affairs are just as destructive as the literal affair.

Have you heard of Sex Addict Anonymous'' "three second rule? to look at others for three seconds, and then avert eyes - thats'' normal. If youre staring, flirting, planning, intriguing, going into your ritual or fantasizing, that''s acting out.

"sex and love addicts anonymous" and "sex addicts anonymous" are helpful programs for people with this problem. they''re on the web. SAA is a stronger, more proven program.

 

[kcoursolle]

Eyes wander and every now and then an inappropriate thought enters my mind, and I think this is mostly human nature and/or hormones because humans are supposed to mate and be attracted to other people. However, when a person acts on these or even seriously contemplates them, there is an important reason behind it and that person should really look within and try to fix it. For example, the person is not ready to commit, problems with the relationship, or problems with themselves. For example, a friend of mine was seriously depressed and acted inappropriately with other men. When she got herself help and she was feeling better, the behavior stopped. The quality of her relationships have drastically increased and I really don't see her doing it again.

 

[firebirdgold]

If someone is doing this before they''re married, then they shouldn''t be getting married or be with their S.O. If they''re married they''d better stop right now and hie themselves to a couples counselor.

Looking and smiling is fine. (if you''re not with your SO, obviously). I know for a fact (and so does my mother) that my dad enjoys walking along a topless beach playing the ''are they real or fake'' game.

As for thinking seriously about a lifetime commitment, well it never occurred to me to consider the no-other-guys-ever thing because the idea of someone else is just unfathomable. Never crossed my mind. Otoh, I sure did think long and hard about spending the rest of my life with my now fi. But it was more along the lines of: Can I really handle forever with a guy who grunts grumpily before the second cup of coffee, who is pretty much permenantly stressed, takes his work home with him and spends a chunk of most evenings in his office, and (most importantly) someone who''s a totally equal partner and doesn''t let me get away with stuff.

 

[Angela1977]

Wow.
I've got nothing to add except this is really terrible and I feel sorry for the men who have women like this.

 

[larussel03]

I do not beleive that being tempted once in a while is that odd a thing. I think that in certain situations, it's easy to feel temptation to hook up with someone that is not your FI, just out of pure animal attraction. The difference is not acting on it though.

Have I felt attracted to other men, sure, I mean if a really hot guy is at a party and you're all talking to him, who doesnt? We're human, after all. Has temptation been there...well, yeah once or twice in our 5 year relationship (we got together when we were juniors in college), booze was usually involved in those sitches. But have I ever thought about acting on it? Nope, never would, because I know that there is nothing that this random man can offer me that my FI cannot but a million times better.

The problem occurs if you act on it. I think that's a red flag that there's a problem in the relationship.

ETA: considering cheating though I think is a bad thing...I kinda missed the point with my post, I read quickly and thought it was just about being atracted...if you are considering cheating then you should really weigh whether or not you are ready to be in a super committed relationship. For me, if FI were to cheat, there'd be no coming back.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:08:40 PM
Author:AceP
is it possible to have a legitimate - but ultimately benign - freak-out when you''re staring down engagement, marriage, a lifetime tethered to one person, no matter how much you love him?

I''ve been on the "other side" of this scenario: the single girl unwittingly embroiled in an illicit flirtation with a soon-to-be married man. We met. We flirted. We lunched. He never told me he was engaged or living with someone (which he was). We never kissed or touched or went out on a "date" but I was smitten. One day I got a note confessing that he was off to get married that weekend & he couldn''t figure out how to tell me. We worked at the same building, but on different floors - lived on the same block. There wasn''t a way not to see each other. Was awkward at first - but we continued to become friends & SICK I KNOW - even later continued to flirt etc & even went down the "maybe gonna have an affair" train of thought for a while. We kinda loved each other a little ... in a "not real love" kinda way. No. Physical. Contact. Ever. Ultimately I left that workplace & he & his wife left town. They''ve been married over ten years now, still together, recent baby.

I think there are several different people who you really "click" with in life. He could have picked me, but he DID pick her. Their history, their committment, their life ... was already set BEFORE me. But we really did "have something". I think it would have been really hard not to acknowledge that in *some* way - because it was just so "there". And I know that he did have some thoughts like "what if" etc etc.... But I don''t think that meant he didn''t really love or was ultimately committed to his wife. In a way, his relationship was tested early. He failed in some ways - as did I, for not cutting things (friendship/flirting) off THE MOMENT I knew about her.

But after that experience .. I realized that not everything is so easy & so black & white & "YES" or "NO". It gets really complicated when there are so few people who could be "it" -- and you meet two at the same time. Sometimes you meet another long after you''re married ... just because you recognize it, doesn''t mean you have to act on it. And doesn''t mean (IMO) that you don''t truly love or are truly committed to YOUR partner.

 

[mia15]

I agree with you, Deco, about not seeing it in black in white so much, having had an eerily similar experience myself. I also like what Kcourcolle says about her friend. Certainly, serial cheaters are usually desperately unhappy people. There''s quite a variety of opinions and they''re all very interesting.

Author:AceP
but, i''m putting it out there anyway. have any of you ever considered cheating on your bf''s? what i''m talking about here is being basically happy in a committed relationship, but sort of freaking out and making out with someone else. or, just carrying on a dangerous flirtation that borders on emotional cheating.[/quote]

I''m sort of getting that AceP isn''t talking about cheating on a fiance or a husband as something that''s a bit more of a grey area. I have to say that I used to have thoughts like this before but now that I am more than basically happy in my relationship it''s the last thing from my mind. Happiness is key. I wouldn''t cheat, I hope, but for me it''s more important to be faithful out of love than out of ethical considerations. Do I believe people should be ethical? Of course, but I also would also want my fiance would keep faith more out of happiness than because it''s the right thing to do (though both would be great) so the ethics issue alone is just not enough, I tend to think.

Lady Kemma, LOL, I''ve broken the three second rule several times already...today.

 

[galeteia]

After pondering it in light of this thread, I realize that my ''entertaining idle thoughts'' mostly consists of "Hmm, if I hadn''t found FF, I would totally be interested in that guy." Yes, I acknowledge that the guy is attractive to me and that he''s my ''type'' but it''s always preceeded by a mental acknowledgement of my love/commitment to FF. Any further thoughts are taken within that context of ''alternate universe''.

And after being in no few relationships, I am all too aware of how hard that ''grass on the other side'' is to mow, and that when it comes right down to it, FF is a better match for me than any of these guys could be, uninvestigated potential or no, and I can honestly say I couldn''t look for a better man. I just don''t think one exists. I''m already astonished that mine does!

In fact, it makes me grateful that I did find FF, because otherwise it would have been the same old story: lots of potential, rush of new relationship, gradual disappointment as they fail to live up to their potential, disillusionment, resentment, and breakup. FF is the only man I''ve ever been with who I respected a little more, instead of less, every day.

So I know that even if the grass does look greener on the other side, it just means it''s astroturf!

 

[diamondfan]

I think life is about choices. Being committed and faithful is one of those choices. I have been with my husband over 16 years. I see attractive men, and have been hit on many times, even with a ring on. A bit of fun or pleasure is not worth throwing away all we have together. Granted, even if he would never know, I WOULD, and I could not do it. Just not worth it. I am sure my hubby has seen attractive women too. We both are comfortable saying who we think is attractive. Staying monogamous over years of time takes work to keep things fun. It is one thing to be out and know that you are seen as attractive, and you can enjoy that feeling. Beyond that, I think red flags are waving. I have a friend who is DEVASTED that her husband was carrying on an email non physical (but heading there) emotional fling with another woman. Just beyond crushed, and he never met the woman. So, I would just say, it is normal to be nervous about committing for the long haul, and just because you are on a diet does not mean you can''t peek at the menu, but to me, sometimes, playing with fire will get you and others burned and it is not worth it if you want a future with your current mate. If not, then break up and see what is out there...

 

[AceP]

Deco, Emerald, Galateia - You guys all hit on what I was getting at. The general idea is that if you''re a thinking, feeling person, how can you not even entertain the idea that it''s POSSIBLE that there''s someone else out there who''s better suited to you than your beau? If you don''t even CONSIDER that, I think you''re kidding yourself. It''s a big world. And the divorce rate is damn high.

I was talking last night to a friend who is married and recently crossed the line with a co-worker (she was one of the inspirations for my original post). She and the co-worker (who is also married) have now cut the tryst off. She knows that at this particular moment in time, something is missing from her marriage. And she anticipates that that "something" will return - they love each other very much. She also recognizes that while she really enjoyed the intense email flirtation, physical contact and emotional closeness with this co-worker, it''s not like she would ever want to be married to him. It took her, though, a few months to get to that conclusion.