Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diamond?

[anna_g.]

I found a cushion stone that I like that has a thin to extremely thick faceted girdle. Does this mean that the girle is uneven and should I be concerned? Will we be able to set it in any setting or will it be problematic?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

I found a cushion stone that I like that has a thin to extremely thick faceted girdle. Does this mean that the girle is uneven and should I be concerned? Will we be able to set it in any setting or will it be problematic?

SCHA all have this girdle variation, but not all cushions with uneven girdles are well cut. The answer is really it depends. Do you have a certificate and image?

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

The site is not letting me post a PDF file of the certificate, as such, below is a link:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.c ... eight=1.71

I don't have an image, we are going to see it in person on Saturday.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

In reading some other postings, it seems like the the extremely thick girdle could potentially have the fish-eye effect, correct?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

In reading some other postings, it seems like the the extremely thick girdle could potentially have the fish-eye effect, correct?

On the issue of fish eye if you were to get an ASET and/or plain photograph I could tell you a lot more about its light performance, judging things like this from the limited information on the grading report is just a rough guess.

The larger table and thus shallow crown would be a red flag for me as well as its smaller faceup size for its carat weight.

What attracted you to this one in particular?

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of this one. We are going to see it in person this Saturday. I like the shape and the cut of this stone, we've been having trouble finding cushion brilliant cuts with 4 main pavilions. I like that's it's colorless and still within out budget (well, sort of .. hopefully we can negotiate on the price).

We are looking at a similar stone online. Attached are the pictures of this one. It also has an extremely thick girdle, but looking at the picture, I don't think there is a fish eye effect. Pls see attached and let me know your thoughts.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Here is another image ..

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

and finally, and ASET image

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Pls let me know your thoughts about this one

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

and here is a link to the GIA certificate:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.c ... eight=1.71

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Pls let me know your thoughts about this one

I am not sure I understand which stone is which?
The photographs and ASET describe a 1.71 F Si1 i is that the same stone from the GIA certificate?

But overall as far as 4 mains go this one is decent but not a top performer, worth seeing in person. I like the shape outline, I like the optical symmetry, the 4 mains look unbroken for most of the table and are receiving light from the strongest overhead source.

The major weakness I see is that it won't be especially bright along the edges so it might look smaller than it is.
If you plan on putting a halo around it than that would minimize this issue.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Wow, thank you!!! That was very thorough and helpful analysis.

Sorry for the confusion. The first certificate that was 1.71 F SI1 that has the thin to extremely thick faceted girdle is the one we are going to see in person, I do not have pictures of that one.

The pictures posted and the link to the second certification is our option number 2 that I found through an online vendor and he send me the pictures. I'm not sure if we can see this one in person before the purchase. I think we are going to have a halo pave around the diamond.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Wow, thank you!!! That was very thorough and helpful analysis.

Sorry for the confusion. The first certificate that was 1.71 F SI1 that has the thin to extremely thick faceted girdle is the one we are going to see in person, I do not have pictures of that one.

The pictures posted and the link to the second certification is our option number 2 that I found through an online vendor and he send me the pictures. I'm not sure if we can see this one in person before the purchase. I think we are going to have a halo pave around the diamond.

... rereading thead.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Wow, thank you!!! That was very thorough and helpful analysis.

Sorry for the confusion. The first certificate that was 1.71 F SI1 that has the thin to extremely thick faceted girdle is the one we are going to see in person, I do not have pictures of that one.

The pictures posted and the link to the second certification is our option number 2 that I found through an online vendor and he send me the pictures. I'm not sure if we can see this one in person before the purchase. I think we are going to have a halo pave around the diamond.

... rereading thead.

Okay I understand now, the second one the 4 main modified cushion brilliant is the one you have images for. If you are seriously considering this stone I'd get a profile shot of the stone, and tell them to take a couple more photos moving the lighting(I say this because I can't tell if some of those large flashes on the top of the stone are glare or internal reflection).

If you could get an Idealscope image too it would be helpful to properly see the leakage as black background ASET is difficult to see leakage.

From the dimensions it faces up smaller for its weight than other cushions due to its depth and thick girdle.
I would expect a reasonably tall crown(not flat top) contributes to the decent optics in this one. How much cheaper was it than the first one?

Finally you may want to look at this video to see the best in 8 main and 4 main cushions available http://www.vimeo.com/9188543 Although I doubt either of these are up to the cut quality of two of the 4 mains in this video.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

The first one is about $12,800, but i think they will be able to negotiate on the price, especially if we get the setting from them.

The online (pictured) stone is $12,286. So, not a significant price difference. Do you think either stones are worth the price?

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

another question for you ... is it appropriate to ask to look at the diamonds under the idealscope and ASET when looking at the diamonds in person? When we visited a jewerly store, I asked for it and the guy said that he didn't know what I was talking about.

I just find it difficult to visually "judge" a stone at a jewerly store. I look at the color, inclusions, make sure that it doesn't look cloudy, that it reflects light appropriately, and that it's sparkly, but that's about it. I watched a few videos by Rhino's School of Rock, but still have trouble analyzing the stones. Do you have any suggestions, or anything else I can read to get better at it?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

another question for you ... is it appropriate to ask to look at the diamonds under the idealscope and ASET when looking at the diamonds in person? When we visited a jewerly store, I asked for it and the guy said that he didn't know what I was talking about.

Yes it is perfectly fine, I bring my own. You can buy a set with light, tweezers and CZ at http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=21&ShowAdd=Y for $95. Most B&M stores have no idea about cut quality in fancy shapes.

I just find it difficult to visually "judge" a stone at a jewerly store. I look at the color, inclusions, make sure that it doesn't look cloudy, that it reflects light appropriately, and that it's sparkly, but that's about it.

Often times everything looks sparkly under jewelry store lighting, you have to take it outside, by the window, under a table etc.

I watched a few videos by Rhino's School of Rock, but still have trouble analyzing the stones. Do you have any suggestions, or anything else I can read to get better at it?

The best thing is to view a lot of well cut cushions in person and train your eye. If this isn't practical I would work with a vendor that can do video comparisons for you. Check out the guide to buying cushions by Rhino and the bonus footage.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

The first one is about $12,800, but i think they will be able to negotiate on the price, especially if we get the setting from them.

The online (pictured) stone is $12,286. So, not a significant price difference. Do you think either stones are worth the price?

They are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. To a novice they may look at the carat weight and think these are bigger.
I prefer to look at the surface area and dimensions.

7.05mm X 6.85mm 1st one $12,800 (1.71 Ct)
6.85mm X 6.71mm 2nd one $12,286 (1.71Ct)

versus this:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7089/ (A branded cushion with top light performance and brightness around the edges)

$12,755 7.14mm X 6.58mm (1.56 Ct)

Usually to get the same faceup size you would pay a premium for an AVC like 7089.
In this case they are similarly priced because of all the hidden weight in the two 4 mains you posted.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

ChunkyCushionLover you are amazing!! I'm learning so much from you.

So, the guy is willing to sell the 7.05mm X 6.85mm (1.71 Ct) for $11,950. Now, we just have to see it in person and hopefully love it. It's insane how much they mark these up!!

I see what you are saying about the August Vintage stone ... It's beautiful and even though its 1.56, dimension wise it is a bigger looking stone. It's very pretty and a GREAT deal, but it's a little but too chunky cut for my taste.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Thanks for the links, I'm gonna keep watching the videos to train myself.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

ChunkyCushionLover you are amazing!! I'm learning so much from you.

So, the guy is willing to sell the 7.05mm X 6.85mm (1.71 Ct) for $11,950. Now, we just have to see it in person and hopefully love it. It's insane how much they mark these up!!

The markup for internet sellers especially drop shippers is much less.

I see what you are saying about the August Vintage stone ... It's beautiful and even though its 1.56, dimension wise it is a bigger looking stone. It's very pretty and a GREAT deal, but it's a little but too chunky cut for my taste.

Here is the biggest problem with trying to buy from a video. Every facet looks huge in a high quality magnified video. In real life they don't look nearly as big or impressive. Nothing wrong with liking the modern style of cushion with smaller flashes, 90%+ of cushions are cut this way today.

The hardest thing about your decision is that you haven't had the opportunity to see many in person. For most shoppers they don't have the luxury of being in New York and seeing a lot of well cut cushions under natural lighting, so seeing one or two means you will pick the best of the lot. You may then walk down the street and find one you like even better .

The great equalizer for me is the structured lighting of the ASET or working with a vendor who really has a passion for choosing the best stone based on its light performance.

This video http://www.vimeo.com/9188543 will show you the best in each type of cushion brilliant, hopefully it will serve as a guide:

1) What the best can look like and how much of the stone can be bright at the same time.
2) The differences between the 8 mains and 4 main cushions and what you can expect from each.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

I very rarely hear someone searching for a 4 main. There are plenty around and not hard to find. Have you seen other modern cushions like the square h&a or 8 thin mains?

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

I live in LA and I thought that there would be good selection of diamonds here, but not so much. I called a few places requesting the specifics that I was looking for, but from what I understand now, a lot of vendors here go through the same wholesaler, so they were all offerring the same couple of stones. Now, i'm just dealing directly with the wholesaler and hoping he would have a bigger selection for us to see.

So, you are right, ChunkyCushionLover, I making my decision based on a small population of diamonds and picking one of the better ones out of these, and there might be another stone that I like better won't know it because I'm not even seeing it. So, not sure how to overcome this problem.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

CharmyPoo, I have seen a limited number of cushions. When we were shown a cushion with 8 pavilions, it was a very cloudy stone and had really bad light performance, and unfortunately that was the only one i've seen in person with 8 pavillions. So, I've been more attracted to 4 pavillions after that. But now, looking at the videos of 8 and 4 pavillions, I really like both stones. I just don't like the cushion modified cut, which to me looks more like crushed ice inside.

If you know of vendors that sell the cushion brilliant and can recommend some that would be great!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

The first diamond you posted has a huge table which I generally don't like. I find cushions look better with tables between high 40s to 60%. I have found it extremly difficult to find nicely cut cushions at B&M because most jewelers are simply not educated in them. They don't know the difference between one cushion brilliant from another cushion brilliant. Many don't even know what the difference is between a cushion modified brilliant and a cushion brilliant. I remember going to one jeweler and asking to see a 8 main cushion and they said it doesn't exist and kept insisting that there is only one type of cushion (especially with GemScan that classifies it the same).

The most popular cushion dealers recommended on PS are Good Old Gold and Engagement Rings Direct. Leon Mege / Perry Chen has recently become very popular and offer excellent prices. In general, people go to GOG if cut quality is very important to them - they created the August Vintage Cushion which is a superiorly cut chunky cushion. They also carry the Square H&A which rivals a H&A round. ERD is well known for their generic cushions and ability to find 8 main modern cushions (stock has been very low since cutters get more money cutting these cushions into round). Leon / Perry have found some very nice chunky cushions that appear to be from a similar source to ERD but this has not been confirmed.

You will also find that the pricing of cushions go something like this from low to high.
1. Modified Cushion Brilliant
2. 4 Main Cushion Brilliant
3. 8 Main Modern Cushion Brilliant / Generic Chunky Cushion
4. August Vintage Cushion / Branded Cuts like the Cushette
5. Square H&A

What are you hoping to get? From what I gather, your budget is around 12 to 13K. What about the other specs - ct, clarity and color? Rectangular or square?

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Hi CharmyPoo, thanks for all the advice. I reached out to ERD and a few other places to see what they have.

This weekend I saw the 1.7 cushion with the 72% table (option 1 above) and saw another cushion that was an old mine brilliant that was beautifully cut with a table of 50%. The old mine brilliant was definitely the chunkier cut and has a high crown. although it had great fire and scintillation, I think I liked the one with the larger table better.

I would love to get an F color, SI1 cushion that is squarish around 1.7 carats. We would like to stay within the $12K budget for the stone.

 

[anna_g.]

Re: Thin to Extremely Thick Faceted girdle on a cushion diam

Have you guys heard of USACertedDiamonds.com? Do you have any feed back on them?