The Red Pill - Amazon Prime - a recommendation

[OoohShiny]

Hi all,

This sounds like a spam or clickbait post lol, but it is a serious post, I assure you!

I was going to post in the general Amazon Prime thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...nd-other-movies-series-worth-watching.228888/
but I thought it was an important enough topic that it deserved its own thread


So... Has anyone watched 'The Red Pill'?

I believe it's just recently been added and I only watched it very recently following a recommendation from someone else.


As a very short summary, a self-declared feminist investigates seemingly obnoxious/inflammatory 'Male Rights Activists' and attempts to find out the truth behind the headlines and the movement, with very interesting results.

I thought the woman who created the film did an excellent job, doing a lot of research and speaking to a lot of people, capturing both sides of the story to ensure balance and also showing her own thoughts and challenges along the way (although, of course, unable to present a completely comprehensive and peer-reviewed commentary due to the need to actually make it watchable and not stupefyingly 'academic' lol).

The film highlighted some very interesting figures and information, as well as re-framing what one might consider engendered (no pun intended) historic trends and patterns, which really gave me food for thought.


I'm not sure I can say much more without 'spoilers' but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has watched it and if so, what they thought of it

And if you've not watched it, I urge you to switch off Love Island or whatever other trash TV you were going to watch tonight lol, and spend what felt like a short two hours watching this instead!

I watched it with my other half and I think it was a great idea to do so, because it prompted healthy discussion around the information presented, so I would strongly advocate that others do the same


So, to sum up, it's a very strong 'Recommended' from me.

 

[jordyonbass]

I haven't seen it yet, however I have been interested in watching it as it has caused a large commotion here in Australia as it was protested by feminist groups and banned from the country. The woman who created the film was recently on one of our Morning news/talk shows and was getting criticized by the hosts who eventually admitted they hadn't seen the movie at all.

Based on that alone I am definitely interested in watching it, I think I might have to watch it this weekend!

 

[telephone89]

I was hoping this would be about something else, not MRA.

There are a few things I agree with from the MRA groups, but the majority is garbage. I'm always into docus though, I'll add it to my list for this weekend.

eta:
Oh boy. Didnt realize it was the "Paul Elam show". I obviously havent watched this, but am surprised anyone would defend this guy. A few notable things:

“Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true,”

"all the PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk [through] life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads."

Sorry but: gag.

 

[OoohShiny]

I was hoping this would be about something else, not MRA.

There are a few things I agree with from the MRA groups, but the majority is garbage. I'm always into docus though, I'll add it to my list for this weekend.

eta:
Oh boy. Didnt realize it was the "Paul Elam show". I obviously havent watched this, but am surprised anyone would defend this guy. A few notable things:

“Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true,”

"all the PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk [through] life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads."

Sorry but: gag.

I should probably have noted in my previous post that I've not done any further research on the topic as I posted pretty much straight after watching the documentary, which was my first exposure to it.

Did it have what was perhaps the desired effect, in that I wanted to tell people about it and raise awareness? I guess it did.

That does not necessarily mean the veracity of the claims within it are questionable, of course, but I would sincerely hope that it's not some form of 'infomercial', if you know what I mean.


One of the points of discussion that the documentary presents is that (radical) feminism apparently seems to be wanting to stifle all debate on the subject of MRA, even when there is seemingly irrefutable evidence that men are equally as affected as women when it comes to certain issues, but funding and/or awareness and/or facilities that deal specifically with men are the complete opposite to those for women, in as much as they just don't exist for men but are causes proudly upheld for women and generously funded.

The impression I have got (albeit I need to take the time to read up properly) is that MRA members might well be writing things that are deliberately inflammatory or provocative in order that they can stand out against any worthy-but-uninteresting-in-its-presentation research papers etc. on the topic, and by doing so, raise awareness of the issues at hand - which, as far as I can tell, is a technique employed in many other fields, including the Women's Rights movement, in order to increase exposure by provoking an emotional reaction. (And we all know how clickbait links and similar work by claiming 'you won't believe this story about...'!)

Are they saying such things as mentioned above in order to present almost farcically over-the-top hyperbole as an attempt to caricature a situation that exists in the real world but in the opposite form, such as one that leads to women enjoying unfair advantage over men (such as in the criminal and divorce courts' systems, as one example discussed in the program)? I don't know.

Without an example-by-example analysis of the articles posted online and discussions with the authors to question what exactly is the subtext behind the words on the page, it would seem impossible to prove or refute or cut through the various claims being made by them and against them - is it the case that the messages they are trying to convey (either plainly or through the use of hyperbole / sarcasm / caricature / etc.) are being shouted down / drowned out by the movement on the opposite side (i.e. the Women's Rights movement) which apparently does not want any discussion on the matter, even when seemingly valid points are being raised? The documentary would suggest 'yes', but I guess that as always, one must do one's own research to seek out the answers if the fog of claim and counterclaim is as dense as it seems.


I will look forward to your thoughts when you've had a chance to watch it and respect is due for being open to watching something that you think is going to challenge your views or be plain unpleasant! It is pleasing to see when seemingly a lot of people nowadays are happy to just look at the surface veneer of an argument put forward and run with it, pitchforks waving, because it looks like a just cause. lol

 

[jordyonbass]

Without an example-by-example analysis of the articles posted online and discussions with the authors to question what exactly is the subtext behind the words on the page, it would seem impossible to prove or refute or cut through the various claims being made by them and against them - is it the case that the messages they are trying to convey (either plainly or through the use of hyperbole / sarcasm / caricature / etc.) are being shouted down / drowned out by the movement on the opposite side (i.e. the Women's Rights movement) which apparently does not want any discussion on the matter, even when seemingly valid points are being raised? The documentary would suggest 'yes', but I guess that as always, one must do one's own research to seek out the answers if the fog of claim and counterclaim is as dense as it seems.


I will look forward to your thoughts when you've had a chance to watch it and respect is due for being open to watching something that you think is going to challenge your views or be plain unpleasant! It is pleasing to see when seemingly a lot of people nowadays are happy to just look at the surface veneer of an argument put forward and run with it, pitchforks waving, because it looks like a just cause. lol

It is interesting that you bring up the fact that there are people who do not want any discussion on the issue; many people here are saying that the feminist groups in Australia are avoiding civil discussion by lobbying against the film in order to get it banned.

I have to say that I also agree that is what it looks like as I am having trouble understanding how they are labelling it as hate speech when they will also say that they have not watched the movie. I used to do debating in high school and the way we demonstrated our opponent's points were incorrect was by analyzing, dissecting and proving why their arguments were false while presenting our own with evidence and facts to support it. You don't win a debate by shutting down the discussion. If you feel that your arguments are strong, you put them forward and if you can see that your arguments are not as well supported as your opponents then you should re-consider the position you hold.

 

[OoohShiny]

I used to do debating in high school and the way we demonstrated our opponent's points were incorrect was by analyzing, dissecting and proving why their arguments were false while presenting our own with evidence and facts to support it. You don't win a debate by shutting down the discussion. If you feel that your arguments are strong, you put them forward and if you can see that your arguments are not as well supported as your opponents then you should re-consider the position you hold.

If I could click 'like' on your post more than once, I'd be clicking it about a thousand times right now lol

IMHO one of the main reasons people end up shouting others down and resorting to insults and ad hominem attacks (in life generally) is because they secretly fear not having a strong enough argument. As you say, if your argument is strong it will stand up to scrutiny, so one shouldn't be afraid of debate!

If one has to become a demagogue and rile up emotion-led mob mentality, that is hardly a position based on strong foundations and evidence. (I reference the recently elected US President... lol)

 

[jordyonbass]

Thanks! I agree that is why people are not open to discussion, it doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong it just means they haven't seriously considered why they are right. Debating frequently helps as it makes you articulate your thoughts into a manner that others can digest as well as prepare you for criticism, so why certain groups of people lobby without debate is something I do not understand. This way tyranny lies, and it is not a path that I am wanting to go down.
I would rather negotiate with my society via open discussion than tyrannize or be tyrannized.