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"The Lawless Presidency"

AGBF

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jan 26, 2003
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22,161
I woke up very early today, as I often do, because the dog was barking to go out. That led me to the on-line version of "The New York Times". This article on Trump's presidency really held my interest because it was not simply about the latest political bombshell. (Not that I have anything against keeping up with the news. Following the volcanic eruptions that is the Trump presidency has been entertaining as well as very angering and frightening.)

I found this column (what redwood calls "an opinion piece") to be a very thought provoking essay on law and government. In my opinion it is a very good condensation of Trump's entire view of how the sovereign and the law fit together.

I hope that at least a few of you find it of interest.

"The Lawless Presidency"...https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

AGBF
 
Oh Deb. The NYT calls it that by putting it in The Opinion Pages. ;)

I will not enter into a discussion on this opinion piece because all the items have been discussed to death.

:wavey:
 
If Trump breaks the law, I don't see how he gets away with it in this political climate. He's no Clinton. :roll:

The best part was the ad above the article advertising MSNBC "stars" yucking it up. They just love this stuff.
 
redwood66 said:
Oh Deb. The NYT calls it that by putting it in The Opinion Pages. ;)

I will not enter into a discussion on this opinion piece because all the items have been discussed to death.

:wavey:
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yea same ol bs as any other day from the newt yoke trag
 
;)

911.jpeg
 
head up butt.png
 
Thank you AGBF. I found the article very interesting to say the least. In particular, the lines below struck a cord with me. I'm not particularly pleased with how the discussions are going on this board so I will not participate in any back and forth. I do however want to say that as much as I'm unhappy with the political climate right now, you have to hand the man credit...I cannot think of any other president (or person for that matter) who would still have such staunch supporters despite all the information we have available..Despite having a direct channel to his thoughts via his twitter account. All I can say is that I'm worried...very, very worried.

"Democracy isn’t possible without the rule of law — the idea that consistent principles, rather than a ruler’s whims, govern society"...

"Trump and his circle treat themselves as having a privileged status under the law. And not everyone else is equal, either.

In a frightening echo of despots, Trump has signaled that he accepts democracy only when it suits him. Remember when he said, “I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election — if I win”?

The larger message is that people who support him are fully American, and people who don’t are something less. He tells elaborate lies about voter fraud by those who oppose him, especially African-Americans and Latinos. Then he uses those lies to justify measures that restrict their voting. (Alas, much of the Republican Party is guilty on this score.)"
 
Although the President wasn't my first choice or 15th choice, I don't think this level of hatred, outrage and despair is good for our country or individuals.

But, but....he said this, he tweeted that...

Trump is very flawed, maybe more than previous Presidents, maybe not. Never before have we known so much about a President. Never have the media, etc. ever told us so much about a President. Never has the focus been so negative. Yes, there were terrible things said against the others, but not to this extent, which liberals will admit if honest.

This election was a terrible defeat for liberals. They thought the Presidency and, by extension, the Supreme Court was locked up for good. I thought the same. But we live in a representative democracy and the ballot box rules.

How would Trump get away with breaking the law as President? If he has done or does something illegal, he will be impeached. Then Pence is in. How does that advance the liberal agenda?

Our country has survived bad Presidents, bad wars, bad laws. We can survive this Presidency. Hopefully, we can survive this degree of hatred.

Deb, I really don't like to see people like you feeling like it seems you feel. Maybe the despair isn't as bad as it appears online and on tv news. I really hope not.

Peace, Deb.
 
AnnaH said:
This election was a terrible defeat for liberals.
Click to expand...

I'm not a liberal, or a republican, or a democrat. I'm a person and will not be boiled down to party affiliations. In my opinion, this election was a terrible defeat for the US as a whole. I don't know how long it will take us to recover from all the negativity and division this election and administration has created.
 
ABKIS said:
I'm not a liberal, or a republican, or a democrat. I'm a person and will not be boiled down to party affiliations.
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:clap:
 
Abkis, I don't identify strongly with any party either.
 
THANK YOU ABKIS!!!!

Trump has caused this level of hate, fear and despair in this country. He did it all thru his campaign and continues to do so with his presidency.

The ballot box does not rule in this country. if the ballot box ruled we would have a different president.
 
Another attack on the electoral system. Second verse, same as the first.
Thankfully, NYC and LA don't have the power to choose our President.
 
AnnaH said:
Another attack on the electoral system. Second verse, same as the first.
Thankfully, NYC and LA don't have the power to choose our President.
Click to expand...

Can you expound on this?
 
Not exactly sure what you are asking, EB.
The coastal areas are so populated that a popular vote would mean less populated areas would have no say in a Presidential election.
 
Anna I just commented that the ballot box does not determine who is the president. Last time I checked 3 million was a pretty big number.
 
@AnnaH, it's not just Trump's tweets. It's his policies. It's his ignorance. It's his ethics violations with regards to his businesses and his family. It's his hypocrisy -- criticizing Obama, but Trump does the same thing and much worse: golfing, trips / vacations, costs of Secret Service protection, etc...
 
AnnaH said:
Not exactly sure what you are asking, EB.
The coastal areas are so populated that a popular vote would mean less populated areas would have no say in a Presidential election.
Click to expand...

No, I know how the electoral college works. This talking point just stems from the ridiculous idea of 'coastal elites' vs. 'real americans.' The number Hillary won by is almost 5x the entire population of Wyoming- that cannot be ignored. And Trump's wins in those deciding states? By 0.2, 0.7 and 0.8 percent. It completely destroys the idea that 'the country' was rejecting liberal policies.

t-c said:
@AnnaH, it's not just Trump's tweets. It's his policies. It's his ignorance. It's his ethics violations with regards to his businesses and his family. It's his hypocrisy -- criticizing Obama, but Trump does the same thing and much worse: golfing, trips / vacations, costs of Secret Service protection, etc...
Click to expand...

Bingo, and it's kind of frightening to me that the argument from some on the right isn't that he's thinking these things, but that he's able to share them with the country. It's bad that....they're made public? And, I mean, think of all the things we don't hear about. Without investigative journalism, we wouldn't know the half of it.
 
I think we know what there is to know about Trump. If not, it will be revealed sooner than later.
 
t-c said:
@AnnaH, it's not just Trump's tweets. It's his policies. It's his ignorance. It's his ethics violations with regards to his businesses and his family. It's his hypocrisy -- criticizing Obama, but Trump does the same thing and much worse: golfing, trips / vacations, costs of Secret Service protection, etc...
Click to expand...

This, this, this and this. Thank you T-C!
 
E B said:
Bingo, and it's kind of frightening to me that the argument from some on the right isn't that he's thinking these things, but that he's able to share them with the country. It's bad that....they're made public? And, I mean, think of all the things we don't hear about. Without investigative journalism, we wouldn't know the half of it.
Click to expand...

Additionally the attacks on journalists and news outlets that do not agree wholeheartedly is beyond childish and is very unbecoming of a person who is supposed to be leader of the free world.
 
Well his policies or plans for them are why he was elected. Ethics violations should be reviewed and I am sure there are multiple organizations doing that. Ignorance and hypocrisy are true but not impeachable offenses. Trump will be the most scrutinized president ever and because of that will not get away with anything illegal.
 
AnnaH said:
Abkis, I don't identify strongly with any party either.
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Thank you Anna. And I apologize if my response was rude or crass in any way as that was not the intention. I just do not understand why liberals are continuously mentioned as if they are the only group who have reservations. My mother is a Republican and has been for many years. She has always voted republican....until this past election. She is just as concerned as I am with the state of affairs. My mother is not the only Republican I know who shares my views about the current administration. It's not just a liberal issue. It's a voter issue in general in my opinion.
 
No problem, Abkis. I have had concerns with every President, including Trump. However, I find him less scary than Obama, not because I didn't appreciate some things about the former President, but because I feared his policies. That's what it's all about for me.
 
redwood66 said:
Well his policies or plans for them are why he was elected. Ethics violations should be reviewed and I am sure there are multiple organizations doing that. Ignorance and hypocrisy are true but not impeachable offenses. Trump will be the most scrutinized president ever and because of that will not get away with anything illegal.
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Actually, the Office of Government Ethics have asked the Trump administration to address various possible ethics violations (Kelly Anne Conway shilling for Ivanka's line being one of them, conflict of interest waivers, businesses). Unfortunately, the OGE has no power to punish and the one that does, the Oversight Committee is headed by Republicans and the recent head, Jason Chaffetz didn't see any reason to investigate (after he announced he would not be running for another term, he was more willing to ask questions). Even more unfortunately, the likely incoming chair of the Oversight Committee is Trey Gowdy is even less likely to investigate.

Ignorance may not be an impeachable offense, but it should be disqualifying.
 
AnnaH said:
No problem, Abkis. I have had concerns with every President, including Trump. However, I find him less scary than Obama, not because I didn't appreciate some things about the former President, but because I feared his policies. That's what it's all about for me.
Click to expand...

You keep posting these generalities. What Obama policy were you afraid of, exactly?
 
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