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The Ideal Diamond?

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litteldude

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
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I want to get an "ideal" diamond, but my limited education tells me to get a diamond with a table of between 60 and 61.9% Depth and 55- 57% Table with Excellent Symmetry and Polish. Is this all I need to tell if it is indeed an "ideal" diamond? And should I buy one that is GIA certified within the last two years from a reputable online wholesaler? Need some guidence from those who know?
 
Go to goodoldgold.com and read all you can. You definitely need more info than you have listed.
 
You can also learn a lot from this website's tutorial. Just click "tutorial" on the navigation bar at the top of the screen.
 
Click here for the tutorial. In order to fully assess "cut" quality for a round brilliant diamond, The basic "must have" #'s include: table size, depth percentage, crown angle, and pavillion angle. Other helpful indicators of cut quality that you might want to consider include idealscope/firescope images, bscope scores, isee2 scope scores etc.... Ultimately, the most important test will have to be the "eyeball" test so go out and be sure to see as many loose diamonds as possible before narrowing down your final choices. Good Luck!
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There are ranges of "ideal" within the range of ideal proportions as set forth by the AGS Laboratory. The more precise the combination of proportions, the higher the degree of light return. Keeping the crown angle between 34.3 - 34.8 degrees and the pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees is a quick way to improve the odds of finding a beautiful diamond. However, there are other combinations of crown and pavilion angle which yield similar results such as a slightly steeper crown combined with a shallower pavilion angle. If you are purchasing the diamond on-line, we recommend working with a vendor who either actually has the diamond in-house and who has conducted a thorough evaluation of the characteristics of the diamond -or- who will bring the diamond in for further evaluation upon request. You should expect to be provided with a color copy of the lab report, detailed proportions analysis, clarity photographs and Hearts & Arrows images where applicable. Regardless of whether you are purchasing the diamond in a traditional Brick & Mortar environment or on-line, feel free to post the details of the diamond that you are considering here on Price Scope or ask one of the trusted dealers to look over the paper aspects of the diamond via email so that you might avoid some of the more obvious (to a dealer) mistakes that you might not catch as a novice (no offense). By the way, there is no reason not to expect the same type of detailed information from a jewelry store if that is where you are buying the diamond, just because you can see the diamond doesn't mean that you should rely on their word regarding the quality and proportions of the diamond as opposed to proper documentation... Those clarity photographs can be quite useful five years down the road when you want to verify your diamond when dropping it off or picking it up from a jewelry store for repair...
 
I also was told about the "AGS Triple Zero" as the best diamond. But what does the Triple Zero mean to me. Is it A rating of Zero on the AGS Scale for Cut, Symmetry, and Polish. Is that what that means, or what? Or should I look for more proportion details in the diamond?
 
Your Ideal diamond is one you dont pay full retail for and dont get it back when you propose
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Hi Sanzdaddy,

AGS Triple Zero means the diamond falls within certain specifications according to the AGS certification:

- Average crown angles between 33.7 – 35.8 degrees
- Average table diameter between 52.4-57.5%
- Average pavilion depth between 42.2-43.8%
- Average girdle thickness between 0.51-2.9%
- Culet size pointed, very small – medium

For more information you can go to the Pricescope tutorial.
 
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On 6/18/2004 9:20:24 AM sanzdaddy wrote:

But what does the Triple Zero mean to me. Is it A rating of Zero on the AGS Scale for Cut, Symmetry, and Polish. Is that what that means, or what?----------------
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Hi sanzdaddy,

Yes, you are correct. AGS0 or Triple Ideal is a zero rating (the highest rating that the AGS assigns) for cut, symmetry and polish. The proportions that Alexa listed above are the AGS’ parameters for ideal cut proportions, one of the three factors that are considered when assigning this rating. In order for a diamond to receive the AGS0 rating, it would have to meet the ideal criteria for symmetry and polish as well.

As NiceIce mentioned, within these AGS0 proportion ranges (which are quite broad), there lie several combinations of ‘sweet spots’ or table and depth%, crown and pavilion angles that, when they work together in tandem, produce a beautifully cut stone.

The AGS certificate provides all of the necessary information for you to assess the cut. If you go with a diamond that has a GIA certificate, please be sure to ask your vendor for a Sarin report on the stone, which provides the crown and pavilion angles on the diamond (crucial information to determine the cut and NOT found on a GIA certificate). The Sarin report is separate from the GIA certificate and the vendor should be able to give you this.

Once you have the table and depth% and the crown and pavilion angles, plug them into the Holloway Cut Adviser. This tool will give assign a numerical rating to the diamond, allowing you to narrow down your search based on the cut information that you have. A score below 2 means that you are considering the top 5% of performing diamonds given its proportions.

After you have selected a few stones using the Holloway Cut Adviser, ask for a variety of pictures (Hearts and Arrows, IdealScope, and inclusion pictures) and talk to your vendor about the inclusions within the diamond. Consider the location, type, size and color of the inclusions and whether they break the surface or not. Also, many talented people on this forum are always happy to offer opinions and help.

Hope this helps and please keep us posted.
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Kindest regards always,
Linda
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Hi sanzdaddy,

Just as an FYI: PQCollectibles brings up a good point in this thread in that, technically speaking, AGS000 is actually a grading of 0 for proportions, polish and symmetry, 0 for a D color and 0 for a F/IF diamond. However, the term “Triple 0” has come to be commonly used for the AGS0 or Triple Ideal designation that I believe you were referring to. NiceIce talks about this loosely used term on their website under “AGS-000/Triple 0 defined”.

Good luck and please keep us posted.
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Kindest regards always,
Linda
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"Your Ideal diamond is one you dont pay full retail for and dont get it back when you propose"

Iceman,

What is your problem lately?? I don't think your answer is going to help sanzdaddy very much. Do you??
 
What size are you looking for? If you have a size, color and clarity in mind, lots of people on this forum can suggest possible diamonds from online vendors.

I am in the midst of concluding a purchase. My girlfriend has small fingers, so I have been looking at smaller stones. What kind of diamond are you looking for?
 
I'm looking for a AGS Triple 0, Colorless range, I good SI1 or better, and from .50ct. to .75ct range for around $2000 to $2500. I'm just looking for the best half carat to 3/4 ct. diamond I can in that price range. I think I've found two really good diamonds on BlueNile.com. But I want to be sure.
Here's the link's to the diamonds:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?shortnamelink=1&pid=LD00251224

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?shortnamelink=1&pid=LD00247526

What do you experts think of these diamonds and their prices?
 
I personally don't think the diamonds you've listed from BN are the best values for the money. You're paying a premium for a color upgrade that the eye won't see, and sacrificing diameter the eye will see.




I'd point to these diamonds.....all are much more presence, exceptionally cut, and great values.




.79, H, SI1, AGS0 for $2455 (before PS discount) - (this one has GREAT prorportions)


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-695976.htm




.80, I, SI1 AGS0 for $2217 (before PS discount)


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-695988.htm




.71, I, SI1, AGS0 for $2102


http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6861073
 
The diamonds you have selected from that website are wonderful deal for the size and cut, and I agree about the color issue. But I'm not sure I like the 10- day return policy, it seems a bit fast compared to BlueNile's 30-day policy. Also, what is the PS discount?
 
I bought my ring from Whiteflash recently and did not I did not find the 10 day return policy an obstacle.
Lesley at Whiteflash found a stone that met my needs. It was not in their inventory or on the multiple listing. The stone was sent to Whiteflash and I discussed it at length with Brian, the ACA cutter there. He gave me full details and answered all questions.
Then, at my request, Whiteflash sent the stone to an independent appraiser of my choice, where I saw the stone. The appraiser agreed with the GIA and Sarin and said it was a beautiful stone. I then had the stone sent back to Whiteflash for setting.I did not have to pay until the stone was set and ready for overnight shipping.
As to the 10 day return, you just have to notify them within 10 days that you intend to return the stone. It does not have to be returned within 10 days and you have ample time to have the stone independently appraised well before you have to pay and the 10 day policy applies.
Perhaps one of the other stones may be more appealing to you but I do not think that the 10 day return policy is an obstacle if theirs is the stone you prefer. They are very easy to work with.
 
I've been doing some more looking around and have found these diamonds. What do you think of these? Mostly, I was looking for an expert opinion on the Ideal Scope Image of the Whiteflash diamond. thank you guys for all your help. Now, I know that I'd rather get a diamond that is AGS 0 with near or colorless. I'd really like to know how to read the Ideal Scope pictures.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-659455.htm#
 
Also would like to know if you think there is a noticeable difference between a .50ct and .63ct diamond that are both ideal and brilliant?
 
Kevinng,
Please keep me posted about how everything goes. I'm eager to see pics. I've got the proposal idea all set, I just have to get the right diamond for the right price. It looks like you got tons of help. This forum is very helpful. I've already been led down the lane to finding a great diamond. Thanks everyone. Hopefully, I'll find my ring by the end of this week. I have an independent appraiser that I found through this site that's been awesome and he is helping me a ton. Too bad it's the weekend and nobody is taking orders. I was hoping to order one that I found. Well, if anyone knows of a great diamond in the near or colorless range, SI1 or so, that is close to 3/4 carats or more for anywhere under $2400US, that would be great. I am looking for once with amazing fire and brilliance, and if lucky good hearts and arrows. It seems pretty shotty but I'm trying and coming close. I'll keep everyone posted when I come up with a result on my own.
 
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On 6/19/2004 9:24:37 AM sanzdaddy wrote:

The diamonds you have selected from that website are wonderful deal for the size and cut, and I agree about the color issue. But I'm not sure I like the 10- day return policy, it seems a bit fast compared to BlueNile's 30-day policy. Also, what is the PS discount?----------------
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The 10 day time frame sounds tight, but it really isn't. You have 10 days from the date and time you receive the diamond to notify WF if you intend to keep the diamond or return it. You can arrange with WF to hold the diamond while you schedule with your appraiser in advance of shipment. Then you have your appointment all lined up before the diamond ever arrives. Or, you can have the diamond shipped to a Price Scope approved appraiser without even having to pay in advance.

White Flash gives Price Scope Forum Members a 5% discount when you purchase a diamond.

While you have 30 days to decide with Blue Nile, BN does not offer life-time upgrades where WF and many other Vendors do. If you decide down the road to upgrade the diamond you buy now, just trade it in (for full credit at WF) on the purchase of the new diamond. You don't have to spend 2X or 3X your original purchase amount. Just spend more money, and that's an upgrade.
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Congrats, Sanzdaddy! Sounds like a lovely stone. Can't wait to see pics!
 
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...i'll definitely pass on the word to other clueless guys looking for rings.
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Thanks again

Happy Shopper
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LOL!
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This place is THE BEST, isn't it?!!

SO glad everything worked out so well for you. Keep us posted... we want to see that ring!
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Lynn

Lynn
 
^ Two of the guys at work just got engaged in the last year and a half and they were kicking themselves after I showed them this site. I almost feel obligated to stand out in front of jewelry stores and hand out business cards guiding people to PriceScope.
 
I couldn't agree with you more. After the carsalesman for jewelers that I've run into at dept. jewelry stores and seeing them markup jewelry and watch them use all these selling tricks on me.
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I actually ran into a Rogers & Hollands one time and they kept pressuring me and passing me onto the next salesperson so they could add their pitches. One actually kept asking me, "why do you want to go home and think about this? What's there to think about?" I just about said, "whether I should post a Roger's and Holland's hate website or not...BACK OFF!"
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The internet in the end has ended up being the greatest source for relaxation and information while not being hassled. The people I spoke with on the phone were true professionals and I loved the experience. Not to mention...MUCH CHEAPER AND BETTER DIAMONDS. I seriously wouldn't mind standing at a Jeweler's crossroads in the Malls as I call them and handing out information on this site and other great diamond stores online. If only half those shoppers really knew!
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Those poor saps
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Hi Sanzdaddy,

Congrats on your upcoming engagment and on your purchase! Please post pics when you can and keep us posted as we'd all love to hear the proposal story. It sounds like a beautiful stone
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and I'm sure she is going to be thrilled when you propose!
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Warmest wishes to the both of you for a lifetime together filled with much love and laughter!
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Kindest regards always,
Linda
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Hi,

I'm really glad that you've gone with Blue Nile. If you haven't noticed there is a definitely a bias on Price Scope against BN. I'm with you as far as the 30 day money back and the customer service is fantastic. They really try to help you get exactly what you want with out a hard sell.

Also I have made several purchases from BN and my boyfriend will be purchasing my engagement ring from either BN or White Flash. Good luck!
 
This place is just the best. There's a diamond for everyone! I was looking for a diamond with good color and clarity.
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... and I found one too!

Got a 0.62ct D VVS2. Can't wait for it to arrive.
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I figured that it is THE ring, so it should be right. I suppose I can compromise on future purchases... but not this one.

Everyone was so helpful, and unassuming. I think I'm addicted to this site.
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I bought my diamond from GOG. Jonathan is just the best. He's so into his diamonds, I bet he knows each one like the back of his hand. I also shopped at DI... and you cannot fault Megan's service.. not one bit.

Thanks everyone. I will post pics... stories... when I have them.
 
I gotta agree Kevinng...this site is addicting. I'm always showing coworkers links and pics from the different diamond forums. These guys (and gals) are awesome.
 
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On 6/24/2004 9:21:42 AM lmurden wrote:

Hi,

I'm really glad that you've gone with Blue Nile. If you haven't noticed there is a definitely a bias on Price Scope against BN. I'm with you as far as the 30 day money back and the customer service is fantastic. They really try to help you get exactly what you want with out a hard sell.

Also I have made several purchases from BN and my boyfriend will be purchasing my engagement ring from either BN or White Flash. Good luck!----------------
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Hmmmm.... I keep reading about a purported bias against BN... but I haven't really seen one for myself in my few months here on PS. I've developed my own bias against them, if you can call it that, simply because the majority of my search results on BN don't yield the best HCA scores. They're not bad, but some of the other vendors here seem to have a higher percentage of better-scoring stones. BN also seems to be slightly more expensive for roughly the same thing. I haven't dealt with them, so can't comment on customer service, just thought I'd share my $0.02 about their inventory. If I found a stone with the specs I wanted there, for a reasonable price, I'd see no reason not to purchase from them.
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