shape
carat
color
clarity
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PriceScope Upgrade Completed
    For issues, questions and comments click the link below
    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pricescope-upgraded-comments-and-issues.229551/

    Dismiss Notice

The crushed ice look

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by kenny, Jan 6, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    25,455
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    by kenny » Jan 6, 2010
    Is the crushed-ice look considered a good or a bad thing in a diamond?
    Is it considered to be desirable in some cuts but undesirable in other cuts?

    Over the years I have read things that make me confused about the use of this term.
     
  2. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    25,455
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    by kenny » Jan 6, 2010
    None of the 52 people who have viewed this know the answer? [​IMG]
     
  3. clgwli
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    902
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    by clgwli » Jan 6, 2010
    I am a viewer and I have no idea. I thought it was a preference (just like I prefer vintage round cuts to H&A cuts). I do like it a lot in radiant shapes, but dislike it immensely in others like marquise & pear. It's particularly bad when I see it is mixed with chunkier facets in something like a cushion. Though in general too crushed to me always looks bad no matter what. I know I have been told that in most cuts it is a sign of a bad cut. I haven't seen a radiant in person that doen't look "crushed" to me. But my thoughts on crushed ice might be different than others.

    I'm interested to know what professionals think.
     
  4. ChunkyCushionLover
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,463
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    by ChunkyCushionLover » Jan 6, 2010
    Heh Kenny seems like a loaded question. I've never heard of it being anything other than a negative term. We don't want to wear watery crushed ice on our hands otherwise we could save major $$$ and buy polished glass or cubics.
    Please provide a post or pictures of where it is used as a positive descriptor. My impression is mostly from how Rhino uses the term, to describe less than optimal light return in Fancy shape diamonds, given you have a lot of experience please reference where you have seen it used in other ways.
     
  5. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    18,151
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    by yssie » Jan 6, 2010
    Ditto CCL - I've never heard of this description used as a positive, on here or IRL. I don't care for the look myself - especially in conjunction with lovely chunky facets on a single cushion, so I've never paid much attention, though..
     
  6. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    25,455
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    by kenny » Jan 6, 2010
    I do not have a photographic or perfect memory or the time to do searches of 5 years of posts.
    It is just an impression I am left with after reading here for 5 years.
    I do not consider the term crushed ice to be a negative thing. (maybe I need more training)

    I see the look in almost all cuts off axis, even great cuts like my ACA, Solasfera, Asscher and Octavia.
    I'd say it is most noticeable in radiants, and some cushions, pears and ovals, even on-axis.
    It is the look of many many small facets or virtual facets of no particular shape in no particular pattern or a relatively indistinct pattern.
    I do not consider it a negative, and actually it is a quite accurate descriptor for a look most diamonds have off axis.
    I think the only diamonds which did not have some of this look would be 30+ carat step cuts.

    I seem to recall me using the term years ago and Rhino reacted strongly.

    I did not intended to ask a "loaded question" and am not starting some flamewar, but apparently this term pushes a button in some people so I'm looking into it.
    It is just a word, but if it always has a negative connotation I will avoid the use of the word when describing diamonds.
     
  7. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    25,455
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    by kenny » Jan 6, 2010
    If crushed ice look is a negative thing could someone please post some pics of a diamond exhibiting the "crushed ice" look?
     
  8. mani5ha
    Shiny_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    by mani5ha » Jan 6, 2010
    I like the sparklyness of a crushed ice diamond but also I like the symmetry of a good cut... i think crushed ice looks a bit "messy"
     
  9. Stone-cold11
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    14,069
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    by Stone-cold11 » Jan 6, 2010
    I think it is personal preference thing, some like it some don''t, just the the arrows in the H&A, near H&A stones, some like it some prefer never to see it.
     
  10. CharmyPoo
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,007
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    by CharmyPoo » Jan 6, 2010
    I agree that it is a personal perference thing. I personally don''t like it much.
     
  11. bebe
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,845
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    by bebe » Jan 6, 2010
    Searching for a rectangular cushion that wasn''t a heavy crushed ice look was hard. I wanted crisp, fine facets. Didn''t exactly get the look I wanted.
    Perhaps it doesn''t exist.

    One problem with radiants I found over and over was that "coke bottle circle" that seemed to be in so many so called great cut stones.
     
  12. iluvcarats
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,407
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    by iluvcarats » Jan 6, 2010
    I don''t mind it in natural colored diamonds, because you have to make the most with what you have since they are so rare. I''m not that wild about it in white diamonds though. Just my .02
     
  13. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    25,455
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    by kenny » Jan 6, 2010
    This is actually quite interesting.

    When I got the smaller Octavia, after being accustomed to an larger asscher with an extremely prominent and strong pattern, and those large bars on all four sides, I kind of missed seeing a strong pattern in the Octavia.
    That's why I'd love a 3-carat Octavia.
    I like seeing a pleasing prominent pattern in my diamond.

    Yes the look of colors of random shape and distribution is beautiful too but my personal preference is for a pleasing strong pattern.
    Maybe because I'm a rigid, control-freak, perfectionist, order-embracing kind of person.
     
  14. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    18,151
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    by yssie » Jan 6, 2010
    I like distinguishable order in particular. Even princesses are just too busy and chaotic for me, and they can certainly be very symmetrically patterned.


    My favourite shapes are rounds and asschers actually - totally opposite personalities (and I want one of each!) but both exhibit observable (IRL, without the aid of additional gadgets and gizmos) radial symmetry.
     
  15. hihowareyou
    Shiny_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    188
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    by hihowareyou » Jan 6, 2010
    My preference is to steer clear of busy stones. I like asschers, old cuts, emeralds, etc for this reason. I even find round brilliant stones are too busy for my taste so a crushed ice stone is not my cup of tea at all.

    When I was looking (hopelessly) for a cushion locally I only ever saw one that wasn''t the crushed ice type so they seem to be very common. I suppose there are people who are happy with them since they continue to be cut and sold.
     
  16. gardengloves
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,116
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    by gardengloves » Jan 6, 2010
     
  17. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    25,455
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    by kenny » Jan 6, 2010
    I'm going to get into big trouble here.
    If many people define crushed ice look as a negative, and I don't, and I used it to describe not only Octavia but every finely-cut diamond I own I'm going to wake up dead tomorrow.

    This is a horrid pic that is the only one I have already taken which remotely is useful here.
    See how in the asscher the pattern is prominent?
    See how in the Octavia (the top stone) the pattern is not as prominent as in the asscher?
    The Octavia is a little off-axis. When even more off-axis the pattern is even more vague as in all diamonds.
    What you see in the Octavia is a very very bright diamond (the goal of this pic, though poorly executed ) but not the strong pattern? To me seeing a lack of pattern IS the crushed ice look.

    I suspect 99.9% of diamond industry experts will call my definition of the crushed ice look wrong.

    Associating crushed ice with Octavia will be like sullying the reputation of a 15-year old Spanish virgin who lives out in a small rural village.
    Do not make that association.
    Rather, blame me for not adopting the apparent industry standard of the definition of the crushed ice look.

    0both.jpg
     
  18. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    23,832
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    by dreamer_dachsie » Jan 6, 2010
    hahhahah!!

    Ok, I think you are using the term wrong. What you are describing sounds like you like high contrast patterns in yoru diamond, not small contrast patterns.
     
  19. gardengloves
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,116
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    by gardengloves » Jan 6, 2010
    Many thanks Kenny for the examples. I can see clearly from your photos the defined contrasts you describe.

    Please, I have no stake in this game, I"m a total newbie, learning step by step on PS. Octavia is gorgeous
     
  20. ChunkyCushionLover
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,463
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    by ChunkyCushionLover » Jan 6, 2010
    In my opinion small flash or small virtual facets is not the problem if the stone was full of them! Thats why some people like the 102 faceted rounds and many modern cuts. But that is not what I would use the term watery crushed ice to describe as and I don''t see it used to describe rounds very often.

    But the example below has a lot of leakage combined with small flash giving the "watery crushed ice" it looks a bit like slush, and this is where I feel the term is most accurately used.

    videoclipcapture.jpg
     
  21. ChunkyCushionLover
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,463
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    by ChunkyCushionLover » Jan 6, 2010
    Well I don't associate brightness with crushed ice no sir. A stone with nice bright flash uniformly distributed is not what I see when I look at crushed ice.

    Your octavia looks much brighter than your other asscher and is full of life the exact opposite of crushed ice to me. I do think some people associate small flash with an overall brighter stone and it can often be the case, its why a lot of modern cuts perform so well in halogen office lighting and are cut this way but once again I wouldn't use the term crushed ice to describe these stones.

    There is no industry standard, this isn't a technial term, its a descriptive term, but I gotta ask you when you look at crushed ice or a slushy ice does it remind you of your octavia? [​IMG] When you look at a glass of water with crushed ice in it does it remind you of your bright octavia or a dead looking cushion?

    Oh and I'd be happy to take your "Crushed Ice" Diamond off your hands anytime it becomes a burden to you [​IMG]. I'm sure my wife of 1 week would be happy to wear it as a RHR.
     
  22. Cehrabehra
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,071
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    by Cehrabehra » Jan 6, 2010
    I think crushed ice diamonds are pretty too - they have a very glittery sort of look that is different and sparkly in a close up sort of way. Most of the diamonds I''ve seen with this look have been yellow radiants. My diamond has a bit going on in the ends and I always thought it was pretty and I loved that my diamond "did it all" and I enjoyed all worlds of fire :)
     
  23. Paul-Antwerp
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,706
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    by Paul-Antwerp » Jan 7, 2010
    Hi Kenny,

    I read this thread with interest.

    Let me first try to give my definition of ''crushed ice'': a preponderance of small virtual facets, with almost no bigger virtual facets. This is most often caused by too many facets and/or asymmetry. Depending on the shape and faceting-pattern of the diamond, it can occur more or less frequently, in other words, some shapes and faceting-patterns lend themselves easier to a crushed-ice-look.

    I personally would not use the term for a stone, being observed from an angle, since that stone will probably still show bigger virtual facets, and if in movement, the nature of the stone will continually change. A stone with ''crushed ice'' observed face-up will likely not have bigger-size virtual facets when tilting the stone.

    From experience with consumers, my feeling is that the general preference of unprepared consumers in real-life-observations is not for a crushed-ice-look. So, I definitely consider it as a negative term.

    For that reason, I suppose that many producers of multi-facet-stones often use huge models of their stones to show them off compared to a regular round-brilliant. Because of the size of these models, they probably indeed look better.

    On a side-note, that is also one of the pitfalls of online-observations. Pictures are a lot bigger than the actual stones, and the observation is not the same as in-real-life. As a reference, look at the current Cushion-poll of Garry. He indicates a preference for stones with more virtual facets. I wonder if this is not due to the size of the pictures.

    Live long,
     
  24. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    13,943
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Jan 7, 2010
    Actually Paul there was a poll we ran recently with 9 different cuts and the stone in the upper right here
    http://www.octonus.com/oct/projects/foxymovies/MSS_9_diamonds_Daylight.phtml has a strong crushed ice appearance.

    In general it was not so popular.
    But this type of cut works well with fancy coloured diamonds because it has a linger ray path average length as light tends to bounce around a lot before it leaks out. Hence they do not appear as bright. Typically 70-80% of the light return of a well cut round.

    Paul none of the 9 cushion stones in the currently pinned at top has a crushed ice effect - small virtual facets plus longer ray paths are the trick - most of those stones have light return as good or better than most rounds.
     
  25. Laila619
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,231
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    by Laila619 » Jan 7, 2010
    I could be off, but I believe I once read on here that the crushed ice look of radiant cuts is good for colored diamonds i.e. yellow as it makes the color more saturated. That is why you see many fancy colored radiants and not too many fancy colored rounds.
     
  26. Sizzle
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,304
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    by Sizzle » Jan 7, 2010
    I''m not a fan of the crushed ice look, personally, but i think it might be subjective. Llike some people like flour and some are obsessed with "arrows". I''m not a fan of either of those, but that doesn''t make them "bad" in general, just bad for me.. especially when it comes to upgrading and everyone is OBSESSED with the "perfect H&A cut"
     
  27. dssxxxx
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    by dssxxxx » Jan 7, 2010
    "Polished glass or cubics"

    I remember years ago when a friend of mine asked if the Rolex I was wearing was real. I said, of course, why do you ask? He commented that you could wear a copy/replica and no one would know the difference. I then told him the most important person would know the difference...........ME.

    So no polished glass or cubics..........[​IMG]
     
  28. Ara Ann
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    by Ara Ann » Jan 7, 2010
    I agree about the effect looking better in colored diamonds, it is a personal preference however.

    One of the prettiest PS rings I''ve seen is a pinkish champagne ''crushed'' radiant...the person doesn''t post here anymore, but here is a link for reference.

    https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/gsring307.jpg
     
  29. Laila619
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,231
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    by Laila619 » Jan 7, 2010
    That''s a beautiful ring Ara Ann. See now in that ring, the crushed ice look works fine.
     
  30. Catmom
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,179
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    by Catmom » Jan 7, 2010
    Hmmm, I''m trying to decide if I should be insulted or not with this thread, lol. I do understand where most of you are coming from as I didn''t ever like the "crushed ice" look before I found my stone. But I have to say once I looked into this stone it was like looking into space with never ending stars. I think it''s a matter of preference and I think the look has it''s place. Hmmmm maybe I should go back to my jeweler and tell him that he sold me an undesireable stone and I want a partial refund. I think he''d knock me upside the head for sure, lol. [​IMG]

    cmsflyring030.jpg
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page