The Compleat Guide to My Criticism of Whiteflash

[Superidealist]

To ease the burden on those wishing to track down my many attacks on Whiteflash over the years, I have created this handy guide that collects all of my past criticisms in one easy-to-use post.

• Wherein I criticize Whitelash's use of poorly marked sample hearts and arrows images (partially corrected)
  
• actually predate Whiteflash's website
  
• Wherein I criticize Whiteflash's offering to essentially knock off a ring from a designer they carry
  
• Wherein I calculate the A Cut Above brand premium
  
• Wherein I point out that Classic and New Line A Cut Aboves are not well-differentiated
  
• Wherein I observe that diamonds Whiteflash doesn't consider hearts and arrows appear in Pricescope's search as such
  
• Wherein I state that I would not buy from Whiteflash
  
• Wherein I mention Whiteflash's cash reward for referrals

 

[strmrdr]

What ever,,,,,,

 

[Mara]

Honestly, do you not have anything better to do?

aka contributing to making the forum a welcome place for newbies and/or people seeking assistance?

Rather than continually trying to show how consumer-friendly you are by 'uncovering great mysteries', when in reality your agenda is as plain as day? Are you sure your name doesn't start with a B and you live in Florida?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Actually the most interesting thing about this, is that it isn''t very interesting at all.

cheers--Sharon

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 2/6/2005 5:21:41 PM
Author: Mara
Honestly, do you not have anything better to do?

aka contributing to making the forum a welcome place for newbies and/or people seeking assistance?

Rather than continually trying to show how consumer-friendly you are by ''uncovering great mysteries'', when in reality your agenda is as plain as day? Are you sure your name doesn''t start with a B and you live in Florida?

ditto--again

 

[Kaleigh]

 

[pearcrazy]

What an ego!!! Honestly, do you REALLY think that there are people wishing to track down all of your WF bashing posts?

 

[solange]

When I initially responded to your post with a list of vendors you would not buy from, Mr. Riley, you replied that you would not buy from Whiteflash because they advertise on another diamond site that slandered and banned you. You even said that you have frequent communications with John at Whiteflash.

Now you have other reasons which leads me to believe that perhaps you have some other agenda. It seems that one dissatisfied customer you cited is now perfectly satisfied because Whiteflash addressed his complaints and changed the setting. I bought a large, beautiful ring from Whiteflash and was perfectly satisfied, as are their many customers on Pricescope. And it is my recollection that on the very few rare occasions when a complaint is directed at them, they are quick to come forward and correct the matter.

Whiteflash has so many satisfied customers. There must be a reason and I do not think your negative input against this one firm is very constructive. It is obviously meant to direct customers away from the vendors you mention and toward the three that you approve of.

Your posts are so obviously biased and I do not think they serve any useful purpose to anyone coming on here looking for a reputable vendor from whom to buy a stone since you list some of the most reputable ones with the most satisfied customers as those you would not buy from.

 

[finerthings]

It''s so refreshing to see a thread that trashes someone else instead of Tiffany & Co.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2005 5:26:25 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:


Actually the most interesting thing about this, is that it isn''t very interesting at all.


cheers--Sharon

rofl
Your post cracked me up. :}

 

[Rhino]

While I would never expect SI to come to my defense, and I''ve somehow made it onto his sh*tlist I would like to point out some other aspects that we can''t ignore either. D.Riley has made some excellent contributions to the forum. One that immediately comes to mind is his vendor comparison list which is quite exhaustive. Among vendors who participate on forums I know I''m one of the older posters who have seen him around for a long time. YEARS. Over the course of that time I''ve learned a few things about D.

1. He is an excellent researcher. He has pulled up information from the farthest reaches of cyberspace that I never knew existed.
2. I truly believe he loves and is interested in the study of diamonds. His knowledge is remarkable and his insights have also forced me to consider and reconsider various aspects of diamond grading and optical appearance. I know that I am a pretty opinionated person and the same holds true for D. Often when 2 people with strong opinions come together, it generally results in a collision however I have come to know and understand D but this has taken some time for me. His opinion is one that I have come to respect becuase of the time and effort he puts into his studies.
3. Back when D was getting his diamond and doing his research he had read my posts in the past when I had first discovered 8* diamonds. They were the first super ideals I had seen that were cut *consistently* and was very pleased. At one time they were my preference. After working with super ideals over the years my personal preferences have changed but that had never changed how I felt about super ideals with shorter star/lower girdle combos. I think my change in personal preference bothered D and perhaps why I am on his sh*tlist.
4. D has a talent for stirring the pot.

He''s done it with me more than once but I have grown accustomed to this over the years and know EXACTLY what to expect. However it''s not like he does this often or regularly but when I see him do it a little grin comes to my face cause I know what he''s up to.

In any case ... D... peeps got your ticket here. I''ve had it for a while. I don''t think it''s cool to willfully trash anyone especially if you''ve never dealt with them personally (and even if you have it''s still not cool), but bringing out *facts* is, if in fact the consumer and readers will benefit from it. If when you begin a thread and the content is not to the benefit of the readers ... why even post it? I am WF''s competition and I get along with them very well. They''ve earned a solid rep and we both know that they sincerely have the best interests of the client in mind.

What is of interest though from the other thread is that the majority of consumers do agree that cash payment for referrals is not good, at least on Internet forums like this. I too agree with this becuase if I get any referrals I want them to be from people who have genuinely wanted to refer us and were not motivated by monetary rewards. That IMO keeps it real.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

*yawn*

 

[horsenito1]

D.Riley''s comments point out the one thing i had also noticed some time ago: the H&A images from Whiteflash are not only the same for every stone, these images are electronically altered (especially the hearts!).
Given that H&A''s are often showing different patterns for different stones, there could be a question mark.
On the other hand, those who know Brian at Whiteflash also know how fanatic he can be in his selection...
D.Riley, this seems like a dead end. Perhaps you would like to share your motivation with us?

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 2/7/2005 12:16:35 AM
Author: Rhino
While I would never expect SI to come to my defense, and I''ve somehow made it onto his sh*tlist I would like to point out some other aspects that we can''t ignore either. D.Riley has made some excellent contributions to the forum. One that immediately comes to mind is his vendor comparison list which is quite exhaustive. Among vendors who participate on forums I know I''m one of the older posters who have seen him around for a long time. YEARS. Over the course of that time I''ve learned a few things about D.

1. He is an excellent researcher. He has pulled up information from the farthest reaches of cyberspace that I never knew existed.
2. I truly believe he loves and is interested in the study of diamonds. His knowledge is remarkable and his insights have also forced me to consider and reconsider various aspects of diamond grading and optical appearance. I know that I am a pretty opinionated person and the same holds true for D. Often when 2 people with strong opinions come together, it generally results in a collision however I have come to know and understand D but this has taken some time for me. His opinion is one that I have come to respect becuase of the time and effort he puts into his studies.
3. Back when D was getting his diamond and doing his research he had read my posts in the past when I had first discovered 8* diamonds. They were the first super ideals I had seen that were cut *consistently* and was very pleased. At one time they were my preference. After working with super ideals over the years my personal preferences have changed but that had never changed how I felt about super ideals with shorter star/lower girdle combos. I think my change in personal preference bothered D and perhaps why I am on his sh*tlist.
4. D has a talent for stirring the pot.

He''s done it with me more than once but I have grown accustomed to this over the years and know EXACTLY what to expect. However it''s not like he does this often or regularly but when I see him do it a little grin comes to my face cause I know what he''s up to.

In any case ... D... peeps got your ticket here. I''ve had it for a while. I don''t think it''s cool to willfully trash anyone especially if you''ve never dealt with them personally (and even if you have it''s still not cool), but bringing out *facts* is, if in fact the consumer and readers will benefit from it. If when you begin a thread and the content is not to the benefit of the readers ... why even post it? I am WF''s competition and I get along with them very well. They''ve earned a solid rep and we both know that they sincerely have the best interests of the client in mind.

What is of interest though from the other thread is that the majority of consumers do agree that cash payment for referrals is not good, at least on Internet forums like this. I too agree with this becuase if I get any referrals I want them to be from people who have genuinely wanted to refer us and were not motivated by monetary rewards. That IMO keeps it real.

i am fairly new to pricescope and this is the first i''ve heard of 1)superidealist and his whiteflash vendetta AND 2)that anyway gave cash for referrals--imo that taints the initial referral. Shouldnt those that do it-declare it?

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 2/6/2005 3:45:33 PM
Author:Superidealist
To ease the burden on those wishing to track down my many attacks on Whiteflash over the years, I have created this handy guide that collects all of my past criticisms in one easy-to-use post.

• Wherein I criticize Whitelash''s use of poorly marked sample hearts and arrows images (partially corrected)
  
  And now WF responded to this but putting a note on each diamond page stating as such.
  
• actually predate Whiteflash''s website
  
  Umm seems missleading, initally Mondera had used WF imagery, then after contacted about copyright issues of such images changed to using images from elsewhere (colour to greyed out) The latter image about recognising H&A - the rules to judge H&A, was first done by someone else - Gazmu, and the graphics updated where altered by WF. With permission from Gazmu, while that of the other site was copied complete with spelling mistake. and Recently Brian has updated his own graphics for a tutorial on this site.
  
  seems not a critizism of WF, but that of another Vendor
  
• Wherein I criticize Whiteflash''s offering to essentially knock off a ring from a designer they carry
  
  A critisim arising out of a missunderstanding of a post from another person, without first hand knowledge that was later corrected, and the person in question ended being very happy with the resolution of his inital query
  
• Wherein I calculate the A Cut Above brand premium
  
  Compaired to their own ''budget'' line which are not marketed in the same respect. and in the end you are not critizing - you make the conclusion that you would be willing to pay that little extra to get the ''perfect'' they claim for a ACA branded stone, but their ES stones represent a very good value alternative for a great stone. and when compared to other H&As on the market... there isnt much difference. tho i would like a comparison of like for like ACA stone vs an 8* vs DCD superidealist vs Superbcert, which would be insteresting.
  
  I dont see this as critizism but an obersvation and presenting of facts. ACA are cut inhouse, ES are bought from wharehouses after being inspected for performance... ie there isnt the same overheads in ES stones.
  
  
  
• Wherein I point out that Classic and New Line A Cut Aboves are not well-differentiated
  
  Maybe the case, but, is it something that NEEDs to be differentiated? very sutble differences, and are tweaks to a tight set of proportions regardign the minor facets - the differentiation of new line and classic would to me be more trouble than its worth - certainly confusing to the consumer, and in reality are responding to individual rough diamonds need to be cut the best way possible for that rock.
  
• Wherein I observe that diamonds Whiteflash doesn''t consider hearts and arrows appear in Pricescope''s search as such
  
  This isnt a WF thing, its a querk of PS''s search function - so critisism of WF is unfounded in this instance
  
• Wherein I state that I would not buy from Whiteflash
  
  Mearly state - which is about as useful as myself saying ''I would buy from Burger King, but I would not buy from MacDonalds'' true but hardly helpful without reasoned explination, such comment is null and void.
  
• Wherein I mention Whiteflash''s cash reward for referrals
  
  And an explination of such policy if forwarded, clarified and understood.

I think that covers it... feel free to rip apart my comments, I''m telling it like I sees it.

 

[pricescope]

1. I took a freedom to rename the subject.
   
2. This is a sum of Superidealist criticism toward a vendor, which getting a lot of support on this board. I think it is positive for both community and the vendors to have different points of view and healthy criticism. Vendors who are listening will only benefit from it.
   
3. Some of these threads are not really critical. I consider this post rather promotional for WF. This thread is not bashing Whiteflash (despite original controversial subject).
   
4. Constructive criticism based on facts is a healthy thing for any vendor.

I think Superidealist contribution to this forum is a great asset. Are we all cool?

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 2/7/2005 9

8:19 AM
Author: leonid

I think Superidealist contribution to this forum is a great asset. Are we all cool?

Nope Im a nerd, who would fail to get one ''Average Joe''*









*not that i wish to since i have a very lovely lass, and wouldnt be seen dead with the airheaded puddle brained wimmin they have to do the choosing*

 

[AGBF]

I love diamonds, but I do not love comparing the finer points of their cut. I also do not enjoy comparing vendors or following what their latest line can do in terms of light performance or quality of hearts and arrows. I don't know what an Idealscope is or how the HCA works. I didn't even know Dave was known as "bashing" Whiteflash.

Now you know what I don't know. Here is what I do know: some of the personalities who post on the diamnd fora. I remember when Jonathan first came into the world of diamond fora on the 'net, so if he has been around for a while, you know how long I have been around. I "know" Jonathan through the many, many reports on him from many people.

I also know Dave Riley. Dave Riley loves diamonds. He is not a vendor and he compares diamonds for the intellectual challenge of it and because it is his passion.

If he bores you, fine. Obviously he sometimes bores me or I would know he was criticizing Whitefash (which I didn't). He doesn't bore me because he has some agenda vis a vis a certain vendor. He bores me because he discusses the cut of diamonds and who is doing what with cut until I could scream and tear my hair.

For those of you who pay attention to hearts and arrows you could do a lot worse than listen to Dave. I mean, the guy *must* be good...I never understand a *word* he is saying!!

Deb

Edited to add that Jonathan is "Rhino".

 

[fire&ice]

Why does this remind me of......"and my point would be" - "well I don''t have a point".

Or - I don''t like WF. John Q has a zit - nanny nanny boo boo.

But then, slam books went out in the 70''s.

 

[lax18]

I agree that Superidealist''s posts are not that "bashing". I feel PS needs more of this type of discussion, not just everyone telling each other how great the other person is. In reading Superidealist''s posts I feel his comments are offering advice that is not "definitely buy from them in every case" but give the consumer something else to think about. I purchased my ring from WF and was very pleased, but I don''t think Superidealist rocking the boat a little is really that bad. I wish I had read his posts before purchasing from WF. I would have still purchased by diamond from WF, but I would have felt that much more educated in doing so.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/7/2005 9

8:19 AM
Author: leonid


Constructive criticism based on facts is a healthy thing for any vendor.

Of course it is......and when his criticism actually becomes "constructive" instead of accusatory, I too will think it a healthy contribution to the forum.

It all goes to motive, Leonid. If he wanted to say, "gee, I heard about a cash referral program and I'd like to hear from Whiteflash on how exactly that applies within the confines of PS", I think that would be positive.

Whether he intended it or not, the question came off as having ill motive......in fact, this perception is a pattern of his posts as several have noted. The proof is in the pudding......in the responses to his post. The way his comments were perceived by readers suggests it was viewed as less than constructive in nature.

 

[pricescope]

Both sides have some good points

It would be ideal of course if everyone will be 100% tactful and considerate to others

Let''s do not, however, turn against each other. It is a World Live Web and people are speaking with their human voices. We get passionate, listen to different opinions and make our own choices. How cool is that!

Let''s move on, shall we?..