Techie question

[CJ2008]

Anybody have experience migrating to Google Apps for Business?

I'm helping a friend do this (I'm more techie than she is) but I am really really confused on a few aspects around email (she has a few people that work with her who log in to their personal Gmail account but send email on my friend's behalf since my friend owns several different domains).

My questions are probably really basic but no matter how much searching I do I don't find the exact answers and/or whatever they do explain still confuses me.

Just letting you know what you're in for if you attempt to help.

If anyone here thinks they can help clarify some of this confusion let me know and I'll post some questions.

 

[Karl_K]

I just helped a client migrate about 8 months ago.
The same one that just dumped me after 14 years :{
It is a royal pain to set up.
ask away

 

[random_thought]

I don't know how much I can help with google apps but I do know a fair amount about google analytics, web design, css, developing sites, etc. I'll try to jump in and help if possible...

 

[CJ2008]

Karl.

It's because of you that I have APC Smart UPS 1000 - you recommended that model and I've had it ever since. Best purchase I ever made.

Sorry to hear about the client dumping you. I'm sure you worked your butt off for them. I think when it comes to IT/operations and things of that nature the work just isn't as appreciated and valued as it should be.

OK here we go. Half of this is probably not relevant/too detailed. I'll separate out the questions in case you can jump right to those.

SETUP/SITUATION:

Owner/friend:

Logs in to her personal/private Gmail account to keep in contact with her team.
Emails to/from her different domain addresses get forwarded to this personal/private Gmail account
She has a bunch of "Send Mail As" setup for these different domains

Assistant 1:

Logs in to her personal/private Gmail account for work BUT uses the "Send Mail As" to send email on the owner's behalf for several different domain-type emails.

Emails to the [email protected] forward to this person's personal Gmail account.

This person is very reluctant to have anyone look at her email - friend/owner guesses that it's because she's using the [email protected] for personal emails. She's OK with that.

Questions:

-Once I activate the [email protected] address in Gmail/email in GApps will I in effect be able to see this person's email? (from what I've read, no, admins can't read people's emails, but just want to make sure).

-Assuming answer to the above is no and I can move forward...

How will activating the [email protected] Gmail/email in GApps affect this person? Will they see a disruption in their email in any way? Will what's forwarding into their personal Gmail account stop?

I'm asking these questions on the assumptions that I'll do all the work on the back end and not yet give her the [email protected] login info yet until I'm ready. Can I effect do this and she wouldn't even know, if she continues to log into her personal account and use the "send mail as" function?

-Once I'm ready and give her (or anybody else) the log in info to their [email protected] GApps account - would I just have to recreate any "send as" situations within each of their individual [email protected] Gmail/Apps accounts? (so if that's the case would be good idea to take snapshots of what they have now, right?)

-Is it accurate that migrations are only applicable if I want to migrate the email history? and why wouldn't I want to do that, right? shouldn't everything just be centralized?

And is the migration process different whether the emails are now being routed via Google's servers versus my friend's hosted server?

Is the experience for the end user when the migration is happening any different whether the emails are now being routed via Google's servers versus my friend's hosted server? Again - this is assuming I start the migration on the back end and they don't know it's happening. I want to understand if they would be affected so I know what to expect and warn them.

-Would I want to use IMAP in all the settings pretty much?

-Once people start logging in with their [email protected] GApps credentials - will they be able to continue to also send mail/see their mail from their personal Gmail account? Would that in effect be set up as a "Send Mail As"? Or if they use the "Check Email from my other accounts" they're also able to send/receive email as themselves/their personal account?

ETA:

-Any reasons/advantages to route email through my friend's domain servers versus Google/GApps? Any difference in what the end user will experience?

I have more questions Karl but this is the bulk of what I'm trying to grasp.

Thanks so much.

 

[CJ2008]

I don't know how much I can help with google apps but I do know a fair amount about google analytics, web design, css, developing sites, etc. I'll try to jump in and help if possible...

Thanks random...

I need all the help I can get. And sometimes 2 people can explain the same thing just a little differently and that little difference helps make it clear.

 

[Karl_K]

Ansers below...
When I use "you" I mean the company and officers.

Karl.

It's because of you that I have APC Smart UPS 1000 - you recommended that model and I've had it ever since. Best purchase I ever made.

Sorry to hear about the client dumping you. I'm sure you worked your butt off for them. I think when it comes to IT/operations and things of that nature the work just isn't as appreciated and valued as it should be.

OK here we go. Half of this is probably not relevant/too detailed. I'll separate out the questions in case you can jump right to those.

SETUP/SITUATION:

Owner/friend:

Logs in to her personal/private Gmail account to keep in contact with her team.
Emails to/from her different domain addresses get forwarded to this personal/private Gmail account
She has a bunch of "Send Mail As" setup for these different domains

Assistant 1:

Logs in to her personal/private Gmail account for work BUT uses the "Send Mail As" to send email on the owner's behalf for several different domain-type emails.

Emails to the [email protected] forward to this person's personal Gmail account.

This person is very reluctant to have anyone look at her email - friend/owner guesses that it's because she's using the [email protected] for personal emails. She's OK with that.
Any business email belongs to the company and the company has the right to view them at any time which is one reason why you must keep them separate.

Questions:

-Once I activate the [email protected] address in Gmail/email in GApps will I in effect be able to see this person's email? (from what I've read, no, admins can't read people's emails, but just want to make sure).

An admin can in affect see email in any account. there is no way to block it

-Assuming answer to the above is no and I can move forward...

How will activating the [email protected] Gmail/email in GApps affect this person? Will they see a disruption in their email in any way? Will what's forwarding into their personal Gmail account stop?

yes it will have to be reset to forward
I am going to be blunt allowing someone to use their personal account for business is unprofessional and stupid and open the company to be liable to anything being sent from it.
If you ever get a subpoena for email records your in deep do-do. As it will often specify not to tell the employee.
If they have to be compliant with any standard this will be not allowed by any standard I know about.

I'm asking these questions on the assumptions that I'll do all the work on the back end and not yet give her the [email protected] login info yet until I'm ready. Can I effect do this and she wouldn't even know, if she continues to log into her personal account and use the "send mail as" function?
if you set up a forward she will not notice a difference. Also mail sent from a none domain account will get flagged as spam because google apps uses domain keys and spf. Any server who checks them will reject the email. This eventually will be every server.

-Once I'm ready and give her (or anybody else) the log in info to their [email protected] GApps account - would I just have to recreate any "send as" situations within each of their individual [email protected] Gmail/Apps accounts? (so if that's the case would be good idea to take snapshots of what they have now, right?)

If everyone is getting mail from one account set them up as delegates rather than forwarding and gmail will handle the spam filter problem.

-Is it accurate that migrations are only applicable if I want to migrate the email history? and why wouldn't I want to do that, right? shouldn't everything just be centralized?
most orgs import old emails if they are going to using gmail web-mail, if using an email client it does not matter much


And is the migration process different whether the emails are now being routed via Google's servers versus my friend's hosted server?
no
Is the experience for the end user when the migration is happening any different whether the emails are now being routed via Google's servers versus my friend's hosted server?
make sure all outgoing emails for the domain are going through gmails servers or you will get spam trapped but you can leave the incoming up for a while in the mail client for the old account.

Again - this is assuming I start the migration on the back end and they don't know it's happening. I want to understand if they would be affected so I know what to expect and warn them.

-Would I want to use IMAP in all the settings pretty much?
No use either webmail or pop. IMAP is extremely problematic

-Once people start logging in with their [email protected] GApps credentials - will they be able to continue to also send mail/see their mail from their personal Gmail account?
yes they will have to open another tab and log into their personal account

Would that in effect be set up as a "Send Mail As"? Or if they use the "Check Email from my other accounts" they're also able to send/receive email as themselves/their personal account?
if using mail clients you can set them up for both(bad idea! keep them separate!!!) but on google keep you have to keep them separate.
Again business use of a personal account should be subject to getting fired.

ETA:

-Any reasons/advantages to route email through my friend's domain servers versus Google/GApps? Any difference in what the end user will experience?

you have to use gmails mail servers because of domain keys and spf.

I have more questions Karl but this is the bulk of what I'm trying to grasp.

Thanks so much.

 

[CJ2008]

Ansers below...
When I use "you" I mean the company and officers.

OK.

Karl.

It's because of you that I have APC Smart UPS 1000 - you recommended that model and I've had it ever since. Best purchase I ever made.

Sorry to hear about the client dumping you. I'm sure you worked your butt off for them. I think when it comes to IT/operations and things of that nature the work just isn't as appreciated and valued as it should be.

OK here we go. Half of this is probably not relevant/too detailed. I'll separate out the questions in case you can jump right to those.

SETUP/SITUATION:

Owner/friend:

Logs in to her personal/private Gmail account to keep in contact with her team.
Emails to/from her different domain addresses get forwarded to this personal/private Gmail account
She has a bunch of "Send Mail As" setup for these different domains

Assistant 1:

Logs in to her personal/private Gmail account for work BUT uses the "Send Mail As" to send email on the owner's behalf for several different domain-type emails.

Emails to the [email protected] forward to this person's personal Gmail account.

This person is very reluctant to have anyone look at her email - friend/owner guesses that it's because she's using the [email protected] for personal emails. She's OK with that.
Any business email belongs to the company and the company has the right to view them at any time which is one reason why you must keep them separate.

Karl, I am in COMPLETE agreement with you on this.

Questions:

-Once I activate the [email protected] address in Gmail/email in GApps will I in effect be able to see this person's email? (from what I've read, no, admins can't read people's emails, but just want to make sure).

An admin can in affect see email in any account. there is no way to block it

So if I'm in the Admin Console I'll be able to see their email?

-Assuming answer to the above is no and I can move forward...

How will activating the [email protected] Gmail/email in GApps affect this person? Will they see a disruption in their email in any way? Will what's forwarding into their personal Gmail account stop?

yes it will have to be reset to forward
I am going to be blunt allowing someone to use their personal account for business is unprofessional and stupid and open the company to be liable to anything being sent from it.
If you ever get a subpoena for email records your in deep do-do. As it will often specify not to tell the employee.
If they have to be compliant with any standard this will be not allowed by any standard I know about.


OK - but if when I activate it I IMMEDIATELY set it to forward to that personal account she would see no disruption.

And Karl, once again, I am in complete agreement with you on using a personal account for business, believe me, I do what I can to advise my friend but she's just very relaxed about things.

Just so I understand what you're saying here though - the work email should not even be ALLOWED to forward to the person's personal account? or is that ok? I'm not sure if what you're talking about using personal email for business encompasses this too.

I'm asking these questions on the assumptions that I'll do all the work on the back end and not yet give her the [email protected] login info yet until I'm ready. Can I effect do this and she wouldn't even know, if she continues to log into her personal account and use the "send mail as" function?
if you set up a forward she will not notice a difference. Also mail sent from a none domain account will get flagged as spam because google apps uses domain keys and spf. Any server who checks them will reject the email. This eventually will be every server.

I'm not understanding this part too much. Are you saying that when she's logged in to her [email protected] if she sends an email from her personal gmail it will get flagged as spam?

-Once I'm ready and give her (or anybody else) the log in info to their [email protected] GApps account - would I just have to recreate any "send as" situations within each of their individual [email protected] Gmail/Apps accounts? (so if that's the case would be good idea to take snapshots of what they have now, right?)

If everyone is getting mail from one account set them up as delegates rather than forwarding and gmail will handle the spam filter problem.

I'm not understanding this too much either...if everyone is getting mail from one account...what do you mean by that? Each person will have their own email address ([email protected], [email protected], [email protected] etc.) In some cases they will use that address to correspond with clients etc but other times they will want to use other addresses to send email AS my friend. Are you saying that say [email protected] can be a DELEGATE for whatever email addresses (sometimes they ones they monitor overlap - e.g., more than one person has send as privileges for some email addresses) they need to monitor/send email to/from?

I'm starting to think that maybe her whole WAY of dealing with emails is a big mess?

-Is it accurate that migrations are only applicable if I want to migrate the email history? and why wouldn't I want to do that, right? shouldn't everything just be centralized?
most orgs import old emails if they are going to using gmail web-mail, if using an email client it does not matter much

Yes, everyone will be signing in to gmail from a browser as far as I know.

And is the migration process different whether the emails are now being routed via Google's servers versus my friend's hosted server?
no
Is the experience for the end user when the migration is happening any different whether the emails are now being routed via Google's servers versus my friend's hosted server?
make sure all outgoing emails for the domain are going through gmails servers or you will get spam trapped but you can leave the incoming up for a while in the mail client for the old account.

OK so when i set up the gmail in GApps outgoing MUST go through Google Servers but incoming can still route through the other server...I'm thinking I'd like to just do everything at once and get it overwith...any reason I wouldn't?

Again - this is assuming I start the migration on the back end and they don't know it's happening. I want to understand if they would be affected so I know what to expect and warn them.

-Would I want to use IMAP in all the settings pretty much?
No use either webmail or pop. IMAP is extremely problematic

Oh I had no idea...I always thought/assumed IMAP was the best...interesting

-Once people start logging in with their [email protected] GApps credentials - will they be able to continue to also send mail/see their mail from their personal Gmail account?
yes they will have to open another tab and log into their personal account

OK - so it's a separate sign-on.

Would that in effect be set up as a "Send Mail As"? Or if they use the "Check Email from my other accounts" they're also able to send/receive email as themselves/their personal account?
if using mail clients you can set them up for both(bad idea! keep them separate!!!) but on google keep you have to keep them separate.
Again business use of a personal account should be subject to getting fired.

They can't get fired when it's the BUSINESS OWNER that allows such free access and relaxed rules for everything... sometimes I wonder if this move to GApps might be too much overhead for her...and she'll get lazy and let ANYBODY be her back up Super Admin...

ETA:

-Any reasons/advantages to route email through my friend's domain servers versus Google/GApps? Any difference in what the end user will experience?

you have to use gmails mail servers because of domain keys and spf.

Yes I get this now although I think if I understood you before (yes I realize I probably asked the SAME questions in different ways!) just for the outgoing.

Thank you Karl.

I have more questions Karl but this is the bulk of what I'm trying to grasp.

Thanks so much.

 

[Karl_K]

The board ate my long rely so here is the short one.
Here is my reply I was trying to post.
Again for a verity of reason no personal email address for business use.
I would refuse to set it up that way.
You personally can be legally liable if you do.
When the scary government dudes or the lawyers come knocking you can bet the buck will be passed to you!
CJ2008 set it up it’s not my fault!!!

Google has a page that explains delegates.
There are 2 ways of setting it up: one they can see the inbox making it a shared inbox. the other way they can’t see the inbox.
This is the proper way to set up “sent on behalf of”
Both accounts have to be in the same domain to be delegates.

 

[CJ2008]

The board ate my long rely so here is the short one.
Here is my reply I was trying to post.
Again for a verity of reason no personal email address for business use.
I would refuse to set it up that way.
You personally can be legally liable if you do.
When the scary government dudes or the lawyers come knocking you can bet the buck will be passed to you!
CJ2008 set it up it’s not my fault!!!

Google has a page that explains delegates.
There are 2 ways of setting it up: one they can see the inbox making it a shared inbox. the other way they can’t see the inbox.
This is the proper way to set up “sent on behalf of”
Both accounts have to be in the same domain to be delegates.

Thanks Karl.

I know answering these types of questions is time consuming, too.

Believe me, I've spent hours researching and even posted on the GApps forum and called GApps support to try to understand and grasp these different options and all the other elements of GApps so I can set her up the right way. It just seems that for every step or issue I need to deal with another 3 options or issues come up to consider and understand. I also want to try to not cause them any downtime in their Gmail, etc.

I guess this doesn't come easy to me. :/

Thanks again - you've given some great insight and tips - definitely more than I've gotten from any other sources. I feel like maybe I just need to do what's best within the knowledge I have now and be OK with that.

 

[ame]

random I might pick your brain about analytics and the like. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to make that work for me. There's a lot of stuff with demos and whatnot I want, but I can't seem to get, because it's like...through my blogger thing.

 

[random_thought]

random I might pick your brain about analytics and the like. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to make that work for me. There's a lot of stuff with demos and whatnot I want, but I can't seem to get, because it's like...through my blogger thing.

I may have missed this but platform are you using for your blog? Is it blogger or wordpress or something else?

I personally use wordpress and there are quite a few plugins out there that are pretty handy. I also have google analytics linked up with it but I don't find that to be as useful as the custom plugins I've found.

 

[ame]

random I might pick your brain about analytics and the like. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to make that work for me. There's a lot of stuff with demos and whatnot I want, but I can't seem to get, because it's like...through my blogger thing.

I may have missed this but platform are you using for your blog? Is it blogger or wordpress or something else?

I personally use wordpress and there are quite a few plugins out there that are pretty handy. I also have google analytics linked up with it but I don't find that to be as useful as the custom plugins I've found.

Blogger, actually. It's been there for so many years that trying to migrate it all over seems like a nightmare.