tanzanite

[zircon46]

I am going to try to locate a tanzanite stone to replace a ring I lost. Can this forum give me a good idea of a fair price to pay per karat and what the best (at least in your opinion) cut to show the stone? Is there a jewler in the Puget Sound area that specializes in this stone? Thanks for any help.

 

[WinkHPD]

We would need to know more before we vould even begin to coment.

What size stone, what intensity and hue of color, (was it a pale lavendar or a deep rich blue with hints of lavendar), what shape, etc etc.

There are many fine people on this forum who might be able to help you if you tell us more about what you are looking for.

Welcome to Pricescope!

Wink

 

[valeria101]

There are quite a few things to look for shopping Tanzanite

an dyou might find a good "summary" of the democratic take on it by pricescope on the few older threads on tanz around here

I would never know what you could be looking for with all the different qualities one might be lookinf for in tazanite: not that either piece posted below would not be tops (for example) but they are so obviously different!

The Q about "what cut would be best" is obviously a very good one, but I am affraid any stone would have a different answer. Tanzanite shows three different colors when viewed from different directions, and two would show in faceted gems face-up... For some reason most stones are cut to obviate this effect, so step cuts are not often made (lots of small facets make hiding the color shift more effective). Unless you see this stone as a "sapphire substitute" (as it is often presented, for whatever reason

) why not step cut (like the one in your avatar? )...

Also, larger stones are common, but the material is often not very saturated in color, so deeper cuts make the aparent color look better (and "shift" less).

I know this is not really pinpointing a preffered shape: but not the shae is so critical, the proportions or the cut and orientation of color axes are critical, something for the cutter to worry about.

 

[valeria101]

Hoping to prove that "information overload" is the PS way to shop for precious stones

... but hope this helps. Sellers would not post offers on PS (maybe PM, not posts), but obviously these pictures come from 'somewhere' - there is no shortage of Tanzanite, as far as I know.

 

[zircon46]

I wish to thank those that responded to my initial post. I am not an informed "stone" person and so am very naive about what to say or how to say it, but appreciate all your remarks on point.

I have no idea about the size. My last stone was represented by the jeweler as exceptional. I'm sure it was. But I am older and wiser and now wish to shop around for stones and to make myself more knowledgeable about what makes a good stone. The stone in my ring was flat on the top and had facets on the underside. It was blue and purple and very pretty. It was always remarked on by people when I wore it. The stone was a deep colour of blue/purple and was about 3/8" in length. ( I suppose most would use mm or cm or karats, but I don't know those very well).

I did not understand the remark about tanzanite being a sapphire substitute. Why would one substitute for a sapphire? Is tanzanite cheaper? More available? Does sapphire have the same blue/purple that tanzanite has? I shall read the archives about tanzanite and beg your indulgence. Thank you for all your help.

This is why I came to your forum. I don't know anything about stones. So I will read past postings and learn from those who respond.

 

[valeria101]

PS is rather good at "teaching stones"... I hope.

From your description, the stone you lost was "buff top" cut (with a flattish, smooth top, and facets on the bottom) - not very common, but one of my all time favorits.

Indeed tanzanite is less expensive than sapphire and larger stones more often found - hence this is why many would see it as a "sapphire subsitutte". Not to mention that one more likely to hear "sapphire blue" than "tanzanite blue" - so the fame is definitely partial. Small stones with great color would be comparably priced for both sapphire and tanzanite (although small sapphires can definitely get more expensive than the $700 or so that would be about max for small tanzanite). But large ones? definitely different prices! Actually, the price per carat would tapper down for very large tanzanite (say, below 10 cts) while it goes steeply up the larger sapphires get (liek it does for diamonds).

And... 3/8 inch is 9.5 mm (you can type "3/8inch in mm" in Google for a quick conversion) - definitely "large" for a precious stone. I would try guessing that your stone should have been 4-5 carats: a common "size" for deeper color tanzanite gems (since the depth of the cut deepens color, and to have a stone cut deeper it would get havier for any given face-up area).

Oh well... I could probably keep writing about these all day! There are quite a few websites presenting and selling Tanzanite in those older posts, and your questions would just give me more opportunities to indulge in writing about gems

 

[valeria101]

Sapphire like Tanzanite... sure. Some would change color from blue to violet depending on lighting (fluorescent versus incandescent) alternatively showing the blue and violet shades that one can find in a single piece of tanzanite in the same time

And it is not uncommon to find violetish blue sapphires just so - no color change involved.

However, sapphire does not show the (strong) change of color upon "tilting" as the trichoic tanzanite does. Sapphires are harder too. I would say that of all differences between sapphire and tanzanite, it is the color that tells them most apart - not the hue, but the shift of color in tanzanite. Otherwise, you can find sapphire of any possible color - only one at a time, not two

 

[mogok]

----------------
I did not understand the remark about tanzanite being a sapphire substitute. Why would one substitute for a sapphire? Is tanzanite cheaper? More available? Does sapphire have the same blue/purple that tanzanite has? I shall read the archives about tanzanite and beg your indulgence. Thank you for all your help.

----------------

Well

First: Tanzanite is a very new stone, Sapphire is known and appreciated for centuries as one of the 4 gems (along with ruby, emerald and diamond):
50 years ago nobody was wearing a tanzanite as this stone was just a kind of ugly little greenish stone with as a name: Zoisite that some masai warrior take sometimes in the savana. The fact that makes tanzanite become in fashion was the discovery of heat treatment for this stone that turns the stone to blue... The legend says that this thing was first suspected after the lightning to change the color of some stones in the savana.. Well: Possible.

Tanzanite promotion was done by Tiffany&co which is well known to have make popular several stones: Kunzite, Morganite, Tanzanite,... Tsavorite!

Second 99.99+% of tanzanite are heat treated, It is not the case for sapphire even if many stones in the market are: There are still exceptional blue unheated sapphires.

Third: Sapphire is a hard (hardness 9) and a tough stone. Tanzanite is softer than quartz and then its luster will tarnish due to quartz particles in the air. Second it has a perfect cliveage, which means that this stone is brittle and has much more chances to break than a sapphire which has no cleavage. Sapphire can be a fine tough stone for a ring, tanzanite should be used for less blow exposed pieces of jewelry.

Tanzanite advantages compared to sapphire are that their are usually more clean than sapphires which is a strong point when dealing with customer that are "diamond spoiled". It is really a beautiful stone that comes in colors close to the best sapphires but at prices in 3 cts over that are much lower than the price for equivalent quality sapphires...

These are all the reasons I see why tanzanite is a very good substitute for sapphire... The durability weakness of tanzanite will make impossible this stone to make its way to the real gem quality of the 4 gems: Tanzanite has the beauty, somewhere the rarity but not the durability to equal sapphire.

Hoping to have helped you,

 

[AGBF]

My attempts at posting links are always problematic. The first url is for a long thread on tanzanite that led up to my successfully buying a tanzanite stone and having it made into a ring. This thread is about the hunt for good tanzanite. The second url is for a separate thread on the finished ring.

If anyone feels charitable, he can transform these long urls into a clickable links to help others. I am inept. Sorry.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/tanzanite.10310/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/agbfs-tanzanite-ring.12263/

Deborah

 

[katbadness]

Here's an older discussion about Tanzanites.

Here are the 2 threads that AGBF (Deborah) tried to post:

First Link

Second Link

 

[AGBF]

----------------
On 5/24/2004 11:13:30 AM katbadness wrote:

Here's an older discussion about Tanzanites.


Here are the 2 threads that AGBF (Deborah) tried to post:


First Link


Second Link




----------------

katbadness,

Thank you SO much!!!!

Deb

 

[zircon46]

I appreciate everyone's help! I have read the archives and now am a better educated person for the effort. I now can look at a stone and understand hue, and refractory issues, I now am more knowledgable about the depth of the stone and its relation to the depth of its color. I don't fully comprehend the information on the cuts of the stone (but I will continue to read about it).

Armed with your good advise and information I think my lifestyle might be better suited to a sapphire. I am a very hands on person. I am an artists, repair, "get it done" type person who is always into some project with either paint or abrasives. I try not to wear my rings when I am actively involved in the pursuit of such things, which is how I lost my lovely anniversay ring and my birthstone ring that I got when 12. All of the posts really helped me.

I will now go forth better educated and try to find the "right" stone and setting. I've bookmarked this site and will come back with a photo of what I end up with.

Blessings on you all.

 

[katbadness]

----------------
On 5/24/2004 11:59:06 AM zircon46 wrote:

I appreciate everyone's help! I have read the archives and now am a better educated person for the effort. I now can look at a stone and understand hue, and refractory issues, I now am more knowledgable about the depth of the stone and its relation to the depth of its color. I don't fully comprehend the information on the cuts of the stone (but I will continue to read about it).

Armed with your good advise and information I think my lifestyle might be better suited to a sapphire. I am a very hands on person. I am an artists, repair, 'get it done' type person who is always into some project with either paint or abrasives. I try not to wear my rings when I am actively involved in the pursuit of such things, which is how I lost my lovely anniversay ring and my birthstone ring that I got when 12. All of the posts really helped me.

I will now go forth better educated and try to find the 'right' stone and setting. I've bookmarked this site and will come back with a photo of what I end up with.

Blessings on you all.----------------

If you love the 'look' of tanzanites, there are sapphires out there that look just like tanzanites except more durable for your everday wear!

With regards to cutting, I'll try to explain what I understand.
The caveat is I'm not a cutter, so all the stuff that I am explaining below are just things that I have read and learned. So for others out there, who do cut, please chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

With cutting any gems, you have to work with the shape of the rough as well as how clean the rough is. Then depending on the type of material, you figure out the best way to work with the rough (shape, faceting, etc.).

Some cutters opt for weight retention, some others try to give the stone the best cut possible. Some opt to try to achieve both..

If the stone has some inclusions in it, the cutter may opt to cut the stone in a more unusual shape or at an angle that is not necessarily the most optimum/desirable for that type of stone, but will give the cutter a chance to hide the inclusion in the faceting (I believe this is a universal in any gem cutting -- including diamond).

Cutting colored gems is not the same as cutting a diamond. With colorless diamond cutting the diamond into an an ideal cut (certain crown and pavillion angle, etc.) to assure the best light return possible is easier *precisely* because there is no color for the cutter to deal with.

In the colored gem world, a cutter who is working with a lighter material may choose to cut the stone deeper (not only for weight retention purposes, but we do pay per carat after all!

), but also to maximize the color on the stone. Conversely, a gem may cut into a shallower stone if it has a dark body color.

And, if I'm not mistaken (and I'm not entire sure how this works) there is also interplay between the gem's refractive index and the angle by which a stone can be cut that cutters work with that will impact the color of the finished gem. Especially in a dichroic/trichroic gem. And in the case of a tanzanite, this angle may translate to a stone that has more purple color, rather than a blue stone, etc.

I have to say that all of this is a gross simplification of the intricacies of gem cutting. I'm sure there is more to it than what I understand and mentioned at this time.

As Mogok usually says... Hoping to have helped..

 

[Richard M.]

All,

I'd like to try to add a little historical perspective to this discussion. In 1969 Tiffany & Co. renamed a previously undistinguished blue zoisite from East Africa "Tanzanite" to honor its single source. These unusual blue stones had been picked from the ground by Masai tribesmen near Mererani after being "heat-treated" by brush fires and the intense African sunshine.

I remember going to the Tiffany store in San Francisco in the early 1970s to see this marvelous “new” stone. The display was dazzling: huge gems, all cut to maximize the intense sapphire-like blue (not violet) coloration.

As David Federman says in his book "Consumer Guide to Colored Gemstones," "At its breathtaking best, tanzanite looks like the spitting image of Kashmir sapphire -- exhibiting the rich, royal velvety blue those stones are prized for. But costing a fraction of the price." I think Federman’s wrong about the “velvety” part. The fine blue tanzanites I’ve seen aren’t “sleepy” like Kashmir sapphire with its many solid inclusions to diffuse brilliance.

Tanzanite was marketed initially as a cheaper version of Kashmir sapphire color, hence the "sapphire substitute" misnomer that persists today despite the practical points made by Mogok and others.

Tanzanite's introduction just happened to roughly coincide with the Jimmy Carter presidency when U.S. mortgage interest rates soared to nearly 20%, the savings & loan industry collapsed and inflation ran wildly out of control. These economic conditions led to the hard asset "gem investment" market. One-carat D-Flawless diamonds sold for a high of $65,000, gold hit $850 an ounce, and I remember collectors at the Tucson gem show grabbing up all the big blue tanzanites they could find for "investment."

If you're still with me, scroll up now and look at the photos of rough tanzanite/zoisite crystals that Ana posted to illustrate the stone's trichroism. Then imagine you're a gem cutter. All things being equal, you get a much larger finished gem (more carats at the going price) if you orient the table of your stone perpendicular to the violet direction instead of the finest blue direction. Simple economics. (At its best, the blue of tanzanite is much finer than the crystal illustrated. Also, even the best blue stones will have a secondary violetish pleochroic color in certain lights and orientations).

So mixed-color and violet-predominating stones found their way to the wider gem market, and the public loved them. As an American gem importer put it: "There is a need for a violet-blue stone in between, say, sapphire and amethyst that tanzanite fills. We feel that violetish tanzanites are as beautiful and deserve as much praise as the 'Kashmir-blue' ones." And did the buying public ever agree!

Despite its softness (its main fault as a gem) tanzanite in all its color variations has become one of the hottest-selling consumer gems on the market. I suppose if even softer pearls can be worn in rings, so can tanzanites if buyers understand the potential hazards with each one. According to recent sales surveys I’ve seen, tanzanite now ranks among the four top-selling colored gems in the U.S.: ruby, emerald, sapphire and tanzanite. The AGTA recently saw fit to declare it an alternate birthstone for December along with turquoise and zircon.

Hope this helps.

Richard M.

 

[mogok]

It helps Richard...

Well I will so say: All the best!

 

[MerKaBa]

That was a wonderful history and great information.

thanks.

I thought I would also add a little eye-candy....rough but beautiful

 

[Richard M.]

If the GIF image uploaded properly, here's more eye candy. This crystal is over 58 carats and it's easy to see the two cutting directions -- blue on the wide front and violet-lavender on the narrow sides.

A few years ago I saw a remarkable Tanzanite crystal in the 200-300 carat range. Not only was it top color and mostly clean but it was an enhydro: air and water were trapped inside an interior cavity and the water moved around like the liquid in a carpenter's level when the crystal was moved.

Richard M.

 

[zircon46]

What an interesting piece. I am very happy to have found this website. I keep learning. It would be a great joy to have a stone with water inside. Sorta keep you on the "level".

Thanks for sharing your photo.

 

[Sanellina]

I have been researching Tanzanite. It will be trippling in price due to the mine depleting. Almost the same way Alexandrite went. I bought my stone from ACN TV for about 260/ct. Appraised for 1860/ct.

 

[regnells]

Does anyone have good sources for Tanzanite jewelery in the Silicon Valley? (San Jose, CA) area. I am looking for some pretty earrings for my mom and have about a week and a half. (Nothing like waiting until the last minute!!)

\

Any help on what I should be looking for? I don''t know much about the stones. I just have seen a few and think they are pretty and unusual.

Thanks for the help!!

Sandy