Tall Poppy Syndrome

[TravelingGal]

TGuy, who many of you know is an Aussie, and I were talking about this. Apparently this is a common mentality in Oz. They like to bring down the cocky/egotistical a notch or two. It''s like a sport. They also love the underdog.

Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?

For reference, Tall Poppy Syndrome

TGuy and I both have this, to varying degrees. For me, it''s more sports teams, etc, than actual people, but that doesn''t mean always.

 

[luckystar112]

I think it''s obvious that I often root for the underdog.
And as a matter of fact I do sometimes like to take people off their pedestal. Not so much lately though.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/11/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author:TravelingGal
Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?

I don't know, it really depends... I 'root for' whomever I've got a connection to. In the case of sports teams, it would be the team that's where I'm from or is favored by the people I'm with. In the case of people, it's whomever I see eye-to-eye with... if there's a disagreement between people, and I happen to see the strength of one person's argument over the other's, that's who I 'side with' if I do so at all (which I don't often in my daily life, I tend to play the 'peacekeeper' role at work and with friends). Though I have to admit that that's inevitably affected by my personal relationship with a person, if only because I have back information on their behavior and feel as though I have some insight into their perspective.

I don't notice a lot of cocky/egotistical people in my everyday life, for whatever reason, so I'm not really sure whether that creates a strong negative reaction for me.

Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is that I don't tend to root for anyone based on their winner/underdog stature. I 'root' based on whether I understand and/or like them in whatever way.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 2:51:11 AM
Author: musey

Date: 6/11/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author:TravelingGal
Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?

I don''t know, it really depends... I ''root for'' whomever I''ve got a connection to. In the case of sports teams, it would be the team that''s where I''m from or is favored by the people I''m with. In the case of people, it''s whomever I see eye-to-eye with... if there''s a disagreement between people, and I happen to see the strength of one person''s argument over the other''s, that''s who I ''side with'' if I do so at all (which I don''t often in my daily life, I tend to play the ''peacekeeper'' role at work and with friends). Though I have to admit that that''s inevitably affected by my personal relationship with a person, if only because I have back information on their behavior and feel as though I have some insight into their perspective.

I don''t notice a lot of cocky/egotistical people in my everyday life, for whatever reason, so I''m not really sure whether that creates a strong negative reaction for me.

Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is that I don''t tend to root for anyone based on their winner/underdog stature. I ''root'' based on whether I understand and/or like them in whatever way.

When (assuming you want to) you hit it big in showbiz, come back and report to us.

 

[softly softly]

Date: 6/11/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author:TravelingGal
TGuy, who many of you know is an Aussie, and I were talking about this. Apparently this is a common mentality in Oz. They like to bring down the cocky/egotistical a notch or two. It's like a sport. They also love the underdog.


Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?


For reference, Tall Poppy Syndrome


TGuy and I both have this, to varying degrees. For me, it's more sports teams, etc, than actual people, but that doesn't mean always.

Interesting that you say your tall poppy tendencies are related mostly to sporting teams as this (in my opinion, not sure if it relates to Tguy) is the one area we Aussies don't like to take people down a peg or two. In fact when it comes to our national teams for sports such as cricket and rugby most Australians expect them to win at all costs.

But you are right, we do have an awful habit of 'bashing' successful people. In fact I think your description of it is very kind as often it's not just that we want to bring down the cocky a notch or two, but rather that we assume that success breeds such traits in people - almost as if we resent other's successes. Judging by the recent debacle with Susan Boyle, I suspect we have inherited this in part from our British ancestors. I thought it was interesting how much more positively America has responded to Susan Boyle.

My FIL often comments that he admires the American attitude towards success whereby it is celebrated, respected and admired.

 

[musey]

Date: 6/11/2009 2:57:01 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 6/11/2009 2:51:11 AM
Author: musey

Date: 6/11/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author:TravelingGal
Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?

I don't know, it really depends... I 'root for' whomever I've got a connection to. In the case of sports teams, it would be the team that's where I'm from or is favored by the people I'm with. In the case of people, it's whomever I see eye-to-eye with... if there's a disagreement between people, and I happen to see the strength of one person's argument over the other's, that's who I 'side with' if I do so at all (which I don't often in my daily life, I tend to play the 'peacekeeper' role at work and with friends). Though I have to admit that that's inevitably affected by my personal relationship with a person, if only because I have back information on their behavior and feel as though I have some insight into their perspective.

I don't notice a lot of cocky/egotistical people in my everyday life, for whatever reason, so I'm not really sure whether that creates a strong negative reaction for me.

Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is that I don't tend to root for anyone based on their winner/underdog stature. I 'root' based on whether I understand and/or like them in whatever way.

When (assuming you want to) you hit it big in showbiz, come back and report to us.

I'm exposed to people at all levels of the totem pole at my current 'stature' (underdog

). Very few of the highly successful and high-profile performers that I've met/worked with behave egotistically, actually (which is part of why they're so successful).

Lots of the background actors do, though. I usually just ignore, and am so used to doing so that I their behavior doesn't even register anymore.

 

[Porridge]

I think the Irish have this too. There''s a joke here about an Irishman and an American walking down the street and they see this big house at the end, with a fancy car and all that jazz. The American looks at it and says "man, I wanna be that guy!". The Irishman looks and says "man, I wanna kill that guy..."

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 6/11/2009 3:02:41 AM
Author: softly softly


Interesting that you say your tall poppy tendencies are related mostly to sporting teams as this (in my opinion, not sure if it relates to Tguy) is the one area we Aussies don''t like to take people down a peg or two. In fact when it comes to our national teams for sports such as cricket and rugby most Australians expect them to win at all costs.

But you are right, we do have an awful habit of ''bashing'' successful people. In fact I think your description of it is very kind as often it''s not just that we want to bring down the cocky a notch or two, but rather that we assume that success breeds such traits in people - almost as if we resent other''s successes. Judging by the recent debacle with Susan Boyle, I suspect we have inherited this in part from our British ancestors. I thought it was interesting how much more positively America has responded to Susan Boyle.

My FIL often comments that he admires the American attitude towards success whereby it is celebrated, respected and admired.

I hate the way that anyone successful in Britain is bashed - the only ''achievements'' that seem to be acceptable are being a footballer or winning some reality TV show... and that only lasts 15 minutes and then people/the media start bashing them too.

One thing I always hated at school and at art college was false modesty. Don''t tell me that your painting is crap when you know it''s not - just say ''Blimey, what a masterpiece I have made this week''.

I''m not someone who feels the need to bring people down because of their successes...

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 6/11/2009 3:02:41 AM
Author: softly softly

Date: 6/11/2009 1:56:02 AM

Author:TravelingGal

TGuy, who many of you know is an Aussie, and I were talking about this. Apparently this is a common mentality in Oz. They like to bring down the cocky/egotistical a notch or two. It''s like a sport. They also love the underdog.



Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?



For reference, Tall Poppy Syndrome



TGuy and I both have this, to varying degrees. For me, it''s more sports teams, etc, than actual people, but that doesn''t mean always.

Interesting that you say your tall poppy tendencies are related mostly to sporting teams as this (in my opinion, not sure if it relates to Tguy) is the one area we Aussies don''t like to take people down a peg or two. In fact when it comes to our national teams for sports such as cricket and rugby most Australians expect them to win at all costs.


But you are right, we do have an awful habit of ''bashing'' successful people. In fact I think your description of it is very kind as often it''s not just that we want to bring down the cocky a notch or two, but rather that we assume that success breeds such traits in people - almost as if we resent other''s successes. Judging by the recent debacle with Susan Boyle, I suspect we have inherited this in part from our British ancestors. I thought it was interesting how much more positively America has responded to Susan Boyle.


My FIL often comments that he admires the American attitude towards success whereby it is celebrated, respected and admired.

I have to agree with Softly, the tall poppy thing is not at all pretty. It think it really holds us back from achieving more, both as individuals and as a ''nation''. We are cynical about success in general, it seems, and a gneral anti-authoritarianism is part of it. I saw Atlanta real life housewives for the first time tonight (cough) and was struck at the use of staff, within the home. I''m not sure how comfortable Australians are in having hired staff around the house every day, (or televising the use of them), or in acting the part of the employee. Generally, Australians don''t really like the idea of hierarchy, or ''boss'' very much at all. Perhaps it comes from our colonial jail-house beginnings... I do think there is an historic link with British culture as well.

 

[mysterylover]

I let those folks be. Those who climb up on their own pedestal have a way of falling off - eventually.

 

[Shoopy]

I *always* go for the underdog whether it be sports or people (hence me rooting for the Orlando Magic while FI laughs at the thought they would be the Lakers...hey, it can happen!).

If there is someone that is full of themselves, I feel the need to bring them down a notch or two (or 10). Even if I agree with what the cocky person is saying, its their whole demeanor that gets to me and I can''t bring myself to cheer them on.

 

[princesss]

I am kind of like that when people either imagine themselves at the top and clearly are not, or when people have done nothing to get there but believe they are better than others because they''re on top. If you''ve worked hard to get whatever you have in life, I can respect that. Whether it''s a modest house in a small town or a gorgeous brownstone in NYC, if you worked for it yourself, more power to you.

If, however, you decide you''re too good for everybody around you because you think you deserve riches and fame without ever being willing to work for it, I will want to knock you off of your high horse. And I''ll cheer when somebody takes you down a peg. Maybe quietly, and only to myself, but it''ll make me happy.

 

[monarch64]

I think maybe I''ve been a victim! LOL! Seriously, though...I used to have a girl friend who was very nice for the most part, but every once in a while she would get snarky with me and make underhanded little comments about my house ("that painting is so WEIRD, why do you have it?") or my car ("you''re too BIG for that car"), or whatever. Maybe I was coming across as egotistical or cocky or full of myself and didn''t realize it. It sure seemed like she was trying to bring me down a notch.

 

[mausketeer]

I find this to be an interesting thread. As a Canadian, we are ALMOST American, but not quite, you know? I find their (oh man, this is going to P-off a lot of folks on here if I say this...... here goes nothing. Please keep in mind this is a sweeping generalization, okay?) I find the American culture has almost an obsesson with success and fame and power etc etc and they DO tend to put these people on a pedestal. I''ve never really understood it. I think Canadians tend to look more at the PERSON - who they ARE, not WHAT they do or what they OWN etc. Americans seem to be VERY impressed when someone has a fancy car, flashy jewellery, big house etc. Canadians are more impressed by how someone behaves. If you''re rude, we don''t like you. Period. We don''t care what your "success" is. Be NICE. And say please. And thank you. Not everything can be made up for with money.......

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/11/2009 3:02:41 AM
Author: softly softly


Interesting that you say your tall poppy tendencies are related mostly to sporting teams as this (in my opinion, not sure if it relates to Tguy) is the one area we Aussies don''t like to take people down a peg or two. In fact when it comes to our national teams for sports such as cricket and rugby most Australians expect them to win at all costs.

But you are right, we do have an awful habit of ''bashing'' successful people. In fact I think your description of it is very kind as often it''s not just that we want to bring down the cocky a notch or two, but rather that we assume that success breeds such traits in people - almost as if we resent other''s successes. Judging by the recent debacle with Susan Boyle, I suspect we have inherited this in part from our British ancestors. I thought it was interesting how much more positively America has responded to Susan Boyle.

My FIL often comments that he admires the American attitude towards success whereby it is celebrated, respected and admired.

Ha, SS, trust me, TGuy is with you there. He''s a sports fanatic and VERY nationalistic when it comes to sporting events. I guess when I mean sports, it''s more a domestic thing. TGuy and I were talking about this because right now, the Los Angeles Lakers are in the finals. I am from LA, but I do find myself (secretly) cheering (I won''t say rooting, because it means a different thing in your country. Or should I say baracking?) for the underdog. We TGuy came to LA, he chose the underdog basketball team as "his own" as we have two to choose from - one is a perpetual loser and the other a winner. He did this even when he got a ribbing from all of our friends and cheered heartily for them. I guess it might be the same in Oz? If the Swans won the grand final all the time, wouldn''t everyone else want someone else to win because they''re the big dog?

I do think Americans do value success, but I think we as a culture don''t mind knocking someone off his perch if he is BOASTFUL about it. While we value confidence, pride, etc etc, it must be cloaked in some degree of humility. I think that''s human nature for the most part to resent someone who revels in her own status. Whether or not it''s rooted in envy is debatable...even people who are happily situated in life don''t appreciate someone who rubs it in her face.

In Asian culture, I don''t see a lot of this tall poppy syndrome, probably because it''s not a "me" society. We actually seek praise by downplaying, i.e. if my mom makes a meal, she apologizes that it is inadequate, which is the cue to say, "it was WONDERFUL!"

I do think this syndrome is more evident in commonwealth countries - maybe because IMHO people seem to be generally self deprecating and don''t appreciate the opposite. I think the definition that Softly Softly points out - that some people believe success breeds such traits - is an interesting one.

Anyway, I was interested in a human level why we often have the need to put someone in their place, just for feeling their place in life is a good one.

 

[whitby_2773]

i think i have a degree of tall poppy syndrome - but i hope only in the positive sense. i''m not bothered by people''s success, even if it''s considerably larger than mine. but i''m not all that impressed by it either. i actually wrote a poem about ned kelly to commemorate this last australia day (jan 26th) and it referred to the australian predilection for shorter poppies.

i think there''s both a bad side and a good side to TPS. as well as the negative side (already mentioned by others) it also leads to an attitude of equality and inclusiveness which i like. groups can criss-cross all sorts of categories and congregate as a single, coherent grouping around a common interest (generally sport in australia! - but lots of other things also) without the divisions of socio-economic status, race, education and so forth that you will often see in other cultures.

we also apply TPS to our public figures, making them much more accountable than they are in, say, the US for example. altho our official house for our prime minister is sequestered, it''s not nearly as cloistered as something like 10 downing street or the white house. and our other public figures generally live in the midst of their constituents, not on big, isolated properties. apart from a very few families, australia doesnt really have ''dynasties'' as such - nothing like the bush''s for example, or the kennedy''s. most of our ''riche'' are very nouveau! no big political powerful clans. i went to university with a number of the children of politicians, and my father was loosely involved with politics in that he was asked to run by both parties, and yet our family was nothing special from a social power perspective. all in all, there''s just a greater cohesiveness.

i like that about australia.

 

[mausketeer]

Sorry to thread-jack guys....... but - I''ve never been to Australia. Always wanted to go though. Thought I''d really like it. Have really liked all the Aussies I''ve met over the years. Always admired your mix of toughness but ALWAYS with a bit of fun thrown in (and beer - ALWAYS a lot of beer) As a Canadian - had to love that part! My friend was just there and he is planning to (emphasis here is on the words "PLANNING TO") skateboard across Australia for cancer research. It should be interesting. Maybe I''ll go for a visit while he''s there...... END OF THREAD JACK

- Jodie -

 

[LaraOnline]

Yes, Whitby, there are also those good things about our lack of hierarchy!

I also think that our ''level playing field'' also contributes to a greater level of creativity in day to day life.

If anything, consumerism in and of itself is really frowned upon in Australia. Even very wealthy people will go about in tracksuits, and spend all their money on the house, or furnishings, so that in their day to day life they do not ''stick out'' as the wealthy ones!

Our political culture and media is pretty much obsessed with maintaining the ''level playing field'', transferring income to welfare payments is seen culturally as a very important aspect of our government here. Our taxation system is apparently the most progressive after Finland, although I''m somewhat skeptical of that claim. Wouldn''t the other Scandinavian countries beat us with their high marginal rates?

In spite of our government taking 30 to 50 percent of most earnings in tax, our PM thought it fitting to release an essay announcing the end of modern laisser-faire capitalism in February this year. Doesn''t such an active government automatically mean that Australia''s system is a mixed economy?

anyway I think I''ve gone slightly off topic... but getting back to REal Housewives, I think an Australian version would be likely to focus on the bickering between the staff...

 

[Circe]

I actually loathe the Tallest Poppy mentality - I believe in meritocracy, and I think this idea of putting people in their place when they get above themselves is incredibly damaging, on an individual and a societal level.

For that matter, I won't participate in bringing people down even if they are being boastful jackasses - easier to cut them out of my life than to lower myself to that level.

This is a bit of a hot-button topic for me, since I was always the too-smart geeky kid growing up ...

 

[hlmr]

Date: 6/11/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author:TravelingGal
TGuy, who many of you know is an Aussie, and I were talking about this. Apparently this is a common mentality in Oz. They like to bring down the cocky/egotistical a notch or two. It''s like a sport. They also love the underdog.

Do you have tall poppy syndrome? Do you like a winning team, or the underdog? If there is someone who is full of herself, do you have to take them down a notch, or can you just leave them perched on their pedestal to just enjoy themselves?

For reference, Tall Poppy Syndrome

TGuy and I both have this, to varying degrees. For me, it''s more sports teams, etc, than actual people, but that doesn''t mean always.

I LOVE the underdog.....

I don''t mind pedestal perchers as long as they are nice pedestal perchers.

Do I have tall poppy syndrome????

Poppycock!

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 6/11/2009 12:47:24 PM
Author: mausketeer
Sorry to thread-jack guys....... but - I''ve never been to Australia. Always wanted to go though. Thought I''d really like it. Have really liked all the Aussies I''ve met over the years. Always admired your mix of toughness but ALWAYS with a bit of fun thrown in (and beer - ALWAYS a lot of beer) As a Canadian - had to love that part! My friend was just there and he is planning to (emphasis here is on the words ''PLANNING TO'') skateboard across Australia for cancer research. It should be interesting. Maybe I''ll go for a visit while he''s there...... END OF THREAD JACK


- Jodie -

get on over, jodie - you''ll receive a warm welcome!

tim and i are going home in 2 months for a short visit (3 weeks - not long enough, but all we can manage) and have some lovely things planned. if ever you make it over (under!) let your australian PS sisters know so we can point you in the right directions - it''s God''s own Country