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Super Nervous - Buying Online, Narrowed It Down, Need Advice

Loco0078

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
11
Hi, I'm planning to propose this month and after exhaustive search and self-education, I think I narrowed it down to this diamond from B2C:

Carat Weight:2.1
Cut:Excellent
Color:D
Clarity:VS1
Certificate No:5336932082
Depth:62.6
Table:57
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girdle:MED--Slight Thick
Culet:None
Fluorescence:Very Strong
Measurements:8.17x8.12x5.09

I've asked for IDEAL/ASET plus more pics so here they are: 15764198 - Actual.jpg 15764198 - Actual2.jpg 15764198 - ASET.JPG 15764198 - Idealscope.JPG 15764198 - Magnified.JPG

Here are some concerns:

1. GIA cert shows an inclusion that's visible in one of the pics. Can I ask them to hide it with a prong?
2. For a "D" color, the color looks a little less than perfect. Am I just seeing things?
3. All in cost plus a modest platinum setting will set me back $20K. From my research, given the size and spec, it looks like a great price. Thoughts?
4. ASET looks about above average. Is this what you guys see?
5. IDEAL scope looks a little bit pink but looks good. What do you think?
6. HCA tool isn't pulling the GIA cert but it looks about 1.8. Thoughts?

If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I'm looking for D-F, about 1.8 carat (couldn't help but jump on this diamond because of the price), GIA triple X.
 
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TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
The price is "great" because of the Very Strong fluorescence.

For a high color like D I would avoid fluorescence altogether personally. There are wide ranging opinions on this but if you're dropping that much money for a D I'd stick with no Flo (which will cost more).

There's generally no such thing as a great price on diamonds. At best you'll get a fair price (you get what you pay for) and at worse you get fleeced. Don't fall into the latter camp!
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,087
F#$%ing lovely. It is a steal at $20k even considering it is strong fluo.
Ensure and ask them there is no haziness or milkness from strong fluo.

Go for it.
 

Loco0078

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
11
The price is "great" because of the Very Strong fluorescence.

For a high color like D I would avoid fluorescence altogether personally. There are wide ranging opinions on this but if you're dropping that much money for a D I'd stick with no Flo (which will cost more).

There's generally no such thing as a great price on diamonds. At best you'll get a fair price (you get what you pay for) and at worse you get fleeced. Don't fall into the latter camp!
Thanks for your reply! If there is flourescence, does it mean it BLUE bluorescence? Does that make the diamond more hazy in light?
 

Loco0078

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
11
F#$%ing lovely. It is a steal at $20k even considering it is strong fluo.
Ensure and ask them there is no haziness or milkness from strong fluo.

Go for it.
Thank you for your reply! Should I ask for a picture in day light? Or some kind of light?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,087
1. GIA cert shows an inclusion that's visible in one of the pics. Can I ask them to hide it with a prong?
No need to worry about inclusion.

2. For a "D" color, the color looks a little less than perfect. Am I just seeing things?
I don't know what you are seeing.

3. All in cost plus a modest platinum setting will set me back $20K. From my research, given the size and spec, it looks like a great price. Thoughts?
You are correct.

4. ASET looks about above average. Is this what you guys see?
ASET looks top notch.

5. IDEAL scope looks a little bit pink but looks good. What do you think?
B2C's IS image is always pink.

6. HCA tool isn't pulling the GIA cert but it looks about 1.8. Thoughts?
Great.
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
Thanks for your reply! If there is flourescence, does it mean it BLUE bluorescence? Does that make the diamond more hazy in light?
There IS fluorescence. It's VERY STRONG. Usually blue, but on rare occasions it can be other colors like yellow. Edit - says blue on the cert.

There is no consensus on impact of fluorescence. Even on this forum (see that super long thread near the top) there is a raging debate among the experts.

What I will tell you is the following:
1) Your stone is heavily discounted because of the Very Strong fluorescence
2) VS Flo doesn't mean there's necessarily anything wrong with your stone. BUT if you ever want to sell or upgrade in the future you will have a very hard time.
3) Amongst the trades people that I know (in real life), most of them suggest a high proportion of Strong/Very Strong stones exhibit some degree of milkiness.

I will say, based on the pics, the stone looks beautiful. However again, my personal view is that if you're spending this much - especially for a top shelf color like D - you better be getting a D. If you were buying a smaller stone (1ct or less) and lower color like H-J then I'd say confirm milkiness with the jeweler and go for it, but with what you're spending I'm not taking any chances.
 
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diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,237
If you want D VS1, it's definitely a good buy. I'd only buy a D VS1 if it had the discount for fluorescence, and I really love fluorescence. The only concern you might have with very strong is that it could possibly look hazy in sunlight. You'd have to see it to know. I very much disagree that MOST very strong stones are hazy. I don't think any of the pros here have said that. It seems that lower clarity and very strong fluorescence is a riskier proposition, and VS1 is high clarity. It's a little deep, but it faces up like a 2 ct, so I am not too worried about the depth. You can't see a VS1 inclusion, so no worries about that!

Ask them if they can view in sunlight. Under a UV light, it will glow a beautiful bluish/purple.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,673
There is no consensus on impact of fluorescence. Even on this forum (see that super long thread near the top) there is a raging debate among the experts.
My understanding is the long fluor threads are more focused on discussing discrepancies in grading techniques that may or may not lead to differing grades being given, rather than discussing the impact of fluor itself.

IIRC there is a link in one of the fluor threads to the GIA studies that have shown the proportion of stones in the market with Strong or Very Strong fluor is very low (so low that they struggled to find examples to study IIRC??) and the proportion of those stones that are negatively affected is also low - perhaps one third at very most? (if I recall what Garry H said once?)

On that basis I'm not sure what weight to accord to the study and what weight to accord to the anecdotal reports from your colleagues in the industry that you mention:
3) Amongst the trades people that I know (in real life), most of them suggest a high proportion of Strong/Very Strong stones exhibit some degree of milkiness.
A repeat of the comprehensive study mentioned would need to be done on the current market to confirm either way, but I don't believe the number/proportion of fluor stones has increased in the market since the study was undertaken, which would seem to indicate that proportions of fluor and non-fluor stones have stayed broadly static.



1) Your stone is heavily discounted because of the Very Strong fluorescence
2) VS Flo doesn't mean there's necessarily anything wrong with your stone. BUT if you ever want to sell or upgrade in the future you will have a very hard time.
Agreed on both counts, but then when a lower purchase price is paid in the first place, one can accept a resale price that is similarly marked down!

GIA have also moved to more overtly state publically that fluor has only rare negative impacts, so it's possible that they may move from trading at a discount to trading at a premium, which they did in the past before (IIRC) Tiffany took the decision to only stock non-fluor stones (for no particular reason?) and the wider market followed. If that happens, those with fluor stones will be 'quids in', as the British saying goes.



I will say, based on the pics, the stone looks beautiful. However again, my personal view is that if you're spending this much - especially for a top shelf color like D - you better be getting a D. If you were buying a smaller stone (1ct or less) and lower color like H-J then I'd say confirm milkiness with the jeweler and go for it, but with what you're spending I'm not taking any chances.
If one can have the vendor check for milkiness and haze, I am not sure there would be any risks in purchasing a SB or VSB stone - I personally would therefore take that chance, especially when Returns policies are in place that allow a period of inspection in a broad range of lighting environments to confirm there are no issues out in 'the real world'.
 
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TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
If you dig fluorescence and you can confirm with certainty no haziness then it's a fantastic deal. I'm not arguing that.

For me personally, if I'm spending that much coin for that size and color, I'm not accepting any FL, nevermind Very Strong. Different strokes for different folks.
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
8,814
I think the major problem with Fluor is that the trade doesn’t like it. So it it ever comes to pass where you need to sell it or want to upgrade it, I think you might have trouble with that.

So it’s more of a later possible issue....
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,673
If you dig fluorescence and you can confirm with certainty no haziness then it's a fantastic deal. I'm not arguing that.

For me personally, if I'm spending that much coin for that size and color, I'm not accepting any FL, nevermind Very Strong. Different strokes for different folks.
Agreed - there would be plenty on here standing right behind you to snap a fluor stone up as you walk away from it! lol
 

Loco0078

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
11
Thank you for all your replies. I'm leaning towards buying it. I was planning on getting it delivered to Portland and being held at UPS or Fedex Facility for pick up (to avoid the sales tax, and yes I do know I should pay VAT/consumption tax in CA when I come back). Is this ok? Any advice or thoughts?
 
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coda72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
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1,602
That’s a great deal for the stone if everything checks out ok. A similar diamond on BG costs more than twice as much!

 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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We cannot recommend or condone tax avoidance/tax evasion - that sort of thing is a private decision for the individual - but you are in safe hands with B2C in terms of customer service.
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
8,814
Thank you for all your replies. I'm leaning towards buying it. I was planning on getting it delivered to Portland and being held at UPS or Fedex Facility for pick up (to avoid the sales tax, and yes I do know I should pay VAT/consumption tax in CA when I come back). Is this ok? Any advice or thoughts?
Well, I’m in the US and I started getting my stuff delivered to fed ex and I go get it. It just makes it easier on me.
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,640
I would not get anything beyond faint fl. Just my 2 cents. My E has faint.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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6,673

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
That’s a great deal for the stone if everything checks out ok. A similar diamond on BG costs more than twice as much!

That's not really a fair benchmark or even remotely representative of market prices. He's just a dude who found a brilliant way to market FL stones at premium prices. Any FL stone would look like a steal relative to BG Blue...
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
6,673
That's not really a fair benchmark or even remotely representative of market prices. He's just a dude who found a brilliant way to market FL stones at premium prices. Any FL stone would look like a steal relative to BG Blue...
Isn't the concept behind that line of BGD stones that SuperIdeal cuts are available in higher fluor levels, which none of the other SuperIdeal vendors are offering? lol

So yes, generic GIA XXX with fluor would be cheaper, in the same way that GIA XXX without fluor is cheaper than superideals without fluor! ;)) :tongue:
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
8,814
Isn't the concept behind that line of BGD stones that SuperIdeal cuts are available in higher fluor levels, which none of the other SuperIdeal vendors are offering? lol

So yes, generic GIA XXX with fluor would be cheaper, in the same way that GIA XXX without fluor is cheaper than superideals without fluor! ;)) :tongue:
Exactly right.
 

Loco0078

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
11
Since the diamond has High FL, would it really glow (I'm thinking radioactive hue lol)? Maybe i should have her avoid places with high UV light?!

If any of experts out there has suggestions, please let me know!
 

Loco0078

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
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OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 25, 2014
Messages
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This is worth a watch :)

 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Since the diamond has High FL, would it really glow (I'm thinking radioactive hue lol)? Maybe i should have her avoid places with high UV light?!
Do you go to nightclubs or play Laserquest a lot? lol
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
7,963
HI All,
Just a general note on prices- if one paid $50k for a D/VS1 no fluorescence of a given size and another stone, same grade and size with medium or strong blue is being offered for $35k, which is more difficult for a consumer to liquidate? On which stone would a consumer loose more money if they absolutely needed to sell for cash?

PS- there's no "raging debate"- one tradesperson is taking a view contrary to what the trade knows is the truth. And no matter how much scientific evidence is presented, he'll keep on denying it.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
2,895
Please do have a close look at this stone with a UV source at hand & play a little in indirect / dappled mid day light... Colourless diamonds with strobg fluorescence are a delight - to me, of course & many others too. You might decide it is not your idea of a diamond, but then you will have seen what all the talk is about.

It would be nice to have at least two to compare for sport!

2p
 
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