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Super ideal cut appearing yellow in some lighting

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by daydreamer24, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    hi all,

    I recently purchased a 1.36 ACA I VS2 diamond. Prior to that I looked in stores at several G/H/I diamonds and found that I wasn’t particularly colour sensitive so decided on the I to get more for my money.

    The diamond arrived and it sparkles beautifully. It looks icy white in outdoors sunlight and in most lighting, however in some lighting (at home and in some office rooms) it appears REALLY yellow. Not tints of yellow, but just yellow. Is this due to the colour or is this due to the lighting alone (i.e. a DEF stone would also perform the same way under certain light conditions?)

    I don’t like the yellow colour in the diamond, but I guess what I would like to know is whether this happens in all colourless and near colourless diamonds - in which case I would be ok with it as it’s it would just be physics / lighting and how diamonds reflect the light around it. Or whether it is showing yellow because the colour is I and therefore the colour shows under certain lighting.

    I’m still within my 30 days so keen to make a decision soon as to whether I want to keep it or not.

    I’ve looked into stores again with my diamond. But it doesn’t appear yellow in their lighting so it’s hard to compare.

    I’ll upload some pics too
     
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  2. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    First picture shows the strong yellow colour.

    33060DEB-4074-433B-8A1B-A3A2493E6331.jpeg 78CD8B60-9202-41CC-A115-A5CC561BBF0B.jpeg 7B8B832D-D066-4C3E-A9F3-24C7293CD6CD.jpeg
     
  3. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 29, 2019
    Are the walls / your shirt yellow in the first pic?
     
  4. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    My walls are very very light cream colour but barely noticeable as it’s near white. I was wearing black at the time of the photo.
     
    


    


  5. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » Aug 29, 2019
    If you want it to appear whiter, even if you have yellow walls, you will need to move up in color. I used to have a GIA F, and in some rooms with gold color or brown/tan-ish walls, it would still pick up a little color.

    If it looks yellow to you in these environments, and you will be in these environments on a regular basis, you probably need to move up in color. I would suggest no lower than a G, and preferably an F. That's my advice.
     
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  6. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    Thanks. Appreciate your thoughts. So I guess what you are saying is, it’s picking up the colour due to the fact that it’s an I and that a D-F would not pick up yellow colour in its surroundings (or at least much less so)?

    What I am confused about is how it performs so “white” in other lighting - i would have thought that means it’s a colour I find tolerable and “white enough” for me, but then why it performs so “yellow” in other lighting. If that makes sense.
     
  7. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Aug 29, 2019
    I’m nearly certain it’s because it’s an I color. You may need a G.
     
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  8. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » Aug 29, 2019
    Diamonds will pick up the colors in its environment. The higher the color, the less environmental colors it will pick up. Lighting is part of the environment. In a jewelry store, the lighting is designed to make almost any diamond look good, if you don't have an experienced eye. So when I'm in a jewelry store, I take the diamond away from the overhead lighting, put it under a counter, in a dark corner, and see how it performs there. It still can be a very sparkly and beautiful diamond. You've got an ACA. But some people are just more color sensitive and will see color, in more environments than other people. Some people will see color and NOT mind, and some people won't see much color at all. Maybe you fall into the category that sees color, and minds, even if the diamond is super sparkly. Just make sure your diamond is clean. And if you're wearing a dark shirt, your diamond will reflect a darker color. Go change into a white shirt and take the same picture in the same place and see the difference.
     
  9. LilAlex
    Shiny_Rock

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    by LilAlex » Aug 29, 2019
    Others will know more here but I suspect there is significant blue fluorescence that masks the yellow in direct sunlight. Without that blue kick (like in indoor incandescent light), the true I-color yellow shines through. Some people love the blue fluor because it lets them move down the color scale a little for a bigger (or more affordable) stone. And some people dislike the character it can impart in bright sunlight, although I've never seen it.
     
  10. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » Aug 29, 2019
    You won't be able to tell from these pictures or the description given. You'll need the cert and/or actual pictures of it fluorescing.
     
    


    


  11. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    62F35FB6-10F6-4C5A-A384-6A07B7396E57.jpeg C03BF3DA-1DA6-4D53-80C9-BE145FEE78BA.jpeg 83683972-4C27-4946-8AED-2AC95159E6AC.jpeg Attached are some pictures WF sent to me before I purchased the diamond. (Diamond on the right). The one on the left is a H.
     
  12. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    I didn’t realise that.... which is what has left me puzzled. Cos I’m completely happy with its performance and colour in most environments.

    1. It looks really white in the outdoor sunlight
    2. It looks generally white in most indoor well lit areas and in some environments, I do see a tint of warmth. Which I’m ok with.
    3. But it’s the few rooms/lighting where it is YELLOW (like the one in the first pic I posted). Which I don’t like.

    My issue was, is the “true I colour” showing in the second scenario or the third scenario? And would a DEF also perform similarly in scenario 3?

    Sorry for being so pedantic on this. It’s just a little upsetting after doing so much research and thinking I would be completely happy with an I, I’m now left confused.

    Thanks for all your advice on this !!
     
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  13. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Aug 29, 2019
    ACAs don’t have fluorescence. :saint:
     
  14. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Aug 29, 2019
    I feel the same way about my CBI .64 I. It’s totally fine in most cases, but when I see the tint, I really see the tint. I’m on the fence about whether it “bothers” me or not. Because it is a .64 I’ll likely upgrade, and when I do, I will get a G because I have CBI F and G with my sapphire and the G has never bothered me.
     
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  15. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

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    by the_mother_thing » Aug 29, 2019
    @daydreamer24 What type of lighting is in the environments where you’re seeing it appear more ‘yellow’? Is it possible - in your home environments, where the diamond appears more ‘yellow’ - to first try change your lighting (e.g., type of bulbs) to something more ‘cool’ to see if/how that minimizes the impact environmental lighting has the appearance of color?

    From your pictures, it seems to look beautiful and ‘white’ (to me) where the indoor light is natural, and more ‘yellow’ in what looks like artificial lighting; so I’d investigate this option (while still in your return period) before making any plans to change the diamond. It’d certainly be easier and less costly than upgrading the diamond color, although I realize you have less control over this at work.
     
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  16. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Aug 29, 2019
    Daydreamer -

    Well cut stones look whiter face up because they're cut to return light. As such, when you look at them in the right lighting situations, you'll see light. Whether the stone is a D or a J, you'll see the same light. While the color of the diamond is somewhat apparent, it's largely masked by the light it's returning.

    But the sides of a diamond aren't cut to reflect light, which is why the true color of a diamond is seen sideways, or from the bottom. This is also *occasionally* the case from the top, when there's not sufficient light for the diamond to reflect. This is when you'll see the true color of a diamond.

    I've had diamonds graded by the AGS - both I and H colored - and found them considerably warmer than my GIA graded stones. I currently have a GIA I in my collection, and it's great, but my AGS I was very warm. I've had ACA stones as well, and to be absolutely sure, I stay with F color - which is expensive, but incredibly beautiful. In the past, I've also had 2 AGS graded G colored diamonds (NOT from WhiteFlash) that had marked tint. From what I can see, this is unusual, but it was certainly my experience (and I have the photos to prove it, too!)

    So my best suggestion would be to enjoy your diamond (because an ACA is ALWAYS a beautiful diamond!), but keep an eye to upgrading. You'll see a significant improvement between I and H, and the one time I owned an H colored ACA stone from WF, it was beautifully white with no discernible sideways tint. And with an ACA, if an H doesn't do it, a G colored stone should knock it out of the park.

    Part of the fun of diamonds, if you're going to be an enthusiast, is the upgrade process. So I say - enjoy! :))
     
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  17. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 29, 2019
    No apologies necessary!
     
  18. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 29, 2019
    I, too, have seen the “warmer” G in an AGS0 diamond that was stunning but way too yellow for me... it looked like the “I” color stone I was trading in.
    I do think that if you are still within your return period you should do so now rather than live with it with the idea of upgrading later. If it’s bothering you this much now, it will only get worse. Since you do have the option of changing it at this point I would suggest you do so or I think it will torment you, based on your comments at this point. I totally get where you are coming from.
     
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  19. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 29, 2019
    To me, I can see straight away the difference between these 2 stones and, quite honestly, I’m surprised there is such a noticeable different between the H & I.
    I think even if you went with H (if like the one in the comparison photo) you would be happier, but I agree with the others who suggest going with G to make sure you don’t go through this again.
     
  20. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 29, 2019
    So this is where I know I “get into it” here about the I color stones when it’s suggested that the super ideals will still “face up white”. I just think going to an I even in a super isn’t going to do the trick... the superb cutting can only do so much. I just think it’s a push. I wouldn’t go below H (and even better G with regard to AGS color grading which I think is a bit different than that of GIA’s). If someone is totally cool with some warmth and you are going super, then I say go for it and get a fantastic J and enjoy the light show.
    But it sounds like you are color sensitive (as am I... my heartfelt sympathy as it’s an expensive curse, beyond that of the diamond obsession!), so you aren’t going to be happy if you see this much tint.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
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  21. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 29, 2019
    My E does not appear yellow no matter the environment, lighting, my apparel, etc... that’s why I got it. (And keep in mind my diamond is not a super ideal as yours is.). My previous I color diamond didn’t even phase me when I got it... I didn’t even notice! But as the years passed it grated on me so bad that the color of my new diamond was a top priority.
     
  22. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 29, 2019
    I’m sorry that you are going through this, but the diamond is so optically superior and it looks great on you, and I was surprised when I saw the carat wt because just from looking at it I assumed it was much larger!
     
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  23. Wewechew
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Wewechew » Aug 29, 2019
    I have a CBI color I that I have had since February. I am looking to upgrade to a G because I can see tint in it.
     
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  24. LightBright
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by LightBright » Aug 29, 2019
    Hi, all the advice above is great. Personally, I would try to go to a higher color. Can a sales associate at Whiteflash help you assess color prior to sending you the stone? Can they help you find a whiter (high) H stone?

    From the photos you provided, the H does appear slightly whiter, the I looks slightly more tinted.

    Two other things I can think of. When I lived in a house with slightly beige walls, my diamonds looked yellow to me any time I was indoors. When I moved to a house with faint grey walls with a blueish undertone (no yellow) my diamonds looked whiter indoors. Finally, your I could have a tint for example brownish or greenish rather than pure yellow, which can make color more noticeable. From the photos, I can’t see any obvious brownish or greenish tint, but you should ask your sales associate about any slight brown or green tint before you buy a lower color stone.

    I would call your WF sales associate and discuss. Let them help you find a less tinted stone within your parameters and try that stone out so you can feel like you did your due diligence. Can you talk to them about their perceptions of the H and the I you have photos of, for example? Did they notice the difference, do they think H will get you there or should you try a G, etc?

    By the way your current ACA is beautiful, bright and looks large on your hand. I would keep trying until you get a color you can be happy with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
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  25. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    Yes I think it perhaps is due to the walls/lighting - cream walls and/or warm lighting, but my concern is if higher colours do not reflect those warm/yellow colours then I would be inclined to get a higher colour. As Like you say it’s hard to control the lighting in all environments that I am in. Also, I just painted my walls so don’t want to repaint to be able to enjoy my diamond at home :(
     
  26. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    Thank you. This is what I wanted to confirm and thanks for your advice. I previously thought the super ideal cut would mask the “true colour” in any lighting, but what you’re saying makes complete sense. It’s the light that the ideal cut proportions are able to reflect which masks the true lower colours and therefore no/bad light = no masking.
     
  27. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    Thanks! I think you are right. It bothered me pretty much immediately as I received the ring from my fiancé at home which is where it appeared yellow but I was so happy when I saw it in daylight the next day, but now it’s bothering me constantly.

    I just don’t know how to bring this up with my fiancé. I feel awful asking to change it after I told him I was ok with an I.

    In addition; there were complications with the setting - he had to request Whiteflash to redo it twice due to it not being delicate enough and then the second time when the prongs were slightly off centre. The setting (Whiteflash elegAnt) is beautiful and absolutely perfect so I want to keep the setting.
     
  28. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    It is an expensive curse indeed! Thank you for your time in giving me your insight and advice. I felt so ashamed of not enjoying my ring - I really didn’t know what to do. I hear my own thoughts and I think I’m being so dramatic... so thank you (and everyone else here) for being so sympathetic. Reassured me that I’m not going crazy and petty!
     
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  29. daydreamer24
    Rough_Rock

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    by daydreamer24 » Aug 29, 2019
    We did ask a lot of questions on the H before deciding on the I. This was one of the responses from the WF SA:

    Thanks for your email. I completely understand, it can be difficult deciding between two diamonds that visually are very comparable.
    The trouble is, that even when evaluating the diamond side by side in person with the naked eye (even a trained eye), they appear almost as twins.

    When evaluating the light performance and sparkle of the diamonds, the light performance images will be of most help. They provide technical proof of how the diamond reacts to light, and how intense the light return will be.
    Things that perhaps the human eye would not be able to pick up on its own, the light performance images can and will show.

    In person, the main difference between the two will be the color difference but it is really only noticeable from the side view.
    As you can see in the images we have provided, the difference is noticeable from the side but not really from the top view. I would not say it is significantly whiter, but it is indeed whiter.

    Also, the clarity features cannot be seen to the naked eye.

    So whether in a side by side image, or a video, the answer is the same = these are two absolutely gorgeous, top tier diamonds, which are virtually identical.

    At this point, I may ask yourself…if you woke up tomorrow and one of these diamonds were sold, which one would you be upset to have lost?
    —————

    On that basis we decided to proceed with the I. Now I’m worried even a H may not work for me.....
    I had no idea I was so colour sensitive. I guess most ppl aren’t under jewellery store lightings !!
     
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  30. Dcrafty1
    Rough_Rock

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    by Dcrafty1 » Aug 29, 2019
    63CE9822-2F9C-4C65-80E8-F264B0BE648F.jpeg
    I have an ACA G. My G is totally white in all of the environments you see yours as white. It’s also white from the side. I seldom see any tint except when it’s dirty. However sometimes my ring appears light yellow from the top view. I’ve deleted most of those pictures but I have one when I first got my ring in our kitchen with very off white (light) painting and it was picking up yellow. I Don’t know if you can see it but it was almost a light butter yellow. Again only in certain indie lighting. Everywhere else it’s
    White.
     
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