Suing Co-op board? Or at least threatening?

[elle_chris]

Suing my coop board?

Warning:. long post ahead so please bear with me.

The background: I own an apartment in a post-war that I’ve been renting out for the last four years.

Last summer, I was told that I needed to re-grout/re-tile my bathroom because I was causing water damage to the apartment downstairs.
I explained that my own bathroom has had the same problem for over 10 years and the last time it was fixed, they put some kind of water resistant material in the ceiling and that we think it’s going through the walls downstairs. Mind you, when the property managers assistant looked at my ceiling, it had water stains so she said she was going to send the same letters I received to the upstairs owners. I kept explaining that it won’t make a difference as it’s not the grout, it’s the pipes, etc etc. but she refused to listen and, as they kept insisting it was my bathroom, and wrote me several threatening letters, I decided I didn’t need the problems and went ahead with the work.
A few months later, I was told by my tenant that he ran into the super and was told that the family downstairs was still getting water.
I contacted my management company and was told she’d look into and call me back, but of course never did and I didn’t pursue it.
So, a few days ago I received a letter from the management company saying they needed a new lease agreement. I thought fine but it’s not like I keep extra’s on hand and as they didn’t mail me a blank one, I called the office and asked for her, her assistant and everyone else I can think of because, the witch gave me 21 days to respond before they would start taking legal action and I couldn’t get either of them on the phone.
I finally got through to another property manager who was kind enough to email it to me but neither her nor her assistant has yet to call or email me back.

So today I call my tenants about the lease and find out (there are two single guys who live there) that back in January a plumber came into the apartment, broke some tiles (new ones) and replaced a pipe because it turns out there was still water going into the bathroom downstairs. He also told me that my bathroom ceiling was starting to fall apart again.

Now, I started yelling and saying “why didn’t you say this back in January etc.” he goes “because I’m new and I thought Alex told you (the other guy)” but alex never did and he’s currently out of the country and won’t be coming back for another week. I was livid.

My question is this; did they even have a right to enter my apartment without notifying me in January, break tiles and do work? They also never fixed the tiles after they were done.
My second question is, can I be reimbursed for at least some of the money I put into re-doing my bathroom as it wasn’t even the cause.

I’m looking for a good real estate attorney in nyc that represents shareholders against co-op boards but haven’t had any luck finding a firm

And for those of you who live in nyc and are thinking of buying-if you find out the management company is “Cooper Square Realty" on 6 east 43rd st. RUN! Run as fast as you can as they are the absolute worst.

 

[purrfectpear]

Elle, take a deep breath. Livid does not produce sound decisions (ask me how I know

).

You''re not really looking to get back money, you''re looking for revenge. You will get nothing but more aggravation over this, wayyy more than it''s worth.

1. Most likely they did not need permission to enter your apartment if they believed there was water leaking into the apartment below yours. This recently happened to me, and the building managers entered every apartment above me until they found the source of the leak ( 4 floors above me). It''s all legal.

2. You really want to sue over some broken tiles? No, you really don''t now do you

?.

3. You would have to PROVE that the regrouting was completely unnecessary to prevail. It''s unlikely you could do that this long after the fact.

If I were going to be pissed at someone it wouldn''t be my coop board, it would be who ever I''m paying to manage the apartment (collect rent, resolve issues, handle maintenance). Unless that''s you, in which case you sort of need to be more actively involved. You need to make it crystal clear to your tenants that there will be no more leaks, work done, or apartment entering without them telling you within 24 hours.

I kind of get the feeling that you''d love to let this rental take care of itself and just pay off, but that''s rarely how it works

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 5/21/2009 8:14:10 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Elle, take a deep breath. Livid does not produce sound decisions (ask me how I know

).

You''re not really looking to get back money, you''re looking for revenge. You will get nothing but more aggravation over this, wayyy more than it''s worth.

1. Most likely they did not need permission to enter your apartment if they believed there was water leaking into the apartment below yours. This recently happened to me, and the building managers entered every apartment above me until they found the source of the leak ( 4 floors above me). It''s all legal.

2. You really want to sue over some broken tiles? No, you really don''t now do you

?.

3. You would have to PROVE that the regrouting was completely unnecessary to prevail. It''s unlikely you could do that this long after the fact.

If I were going to be pissed at someone it wouldn''t be my coop board, it would be who ever I''m paying to manage the apartment (collect rent, resolve issues, handle maintenance). Unless that''s you, in which case you sort of need to be more actively involved. You need to make it crystal clear to your tenants that there will be no more leaks, work done, or apartment entering without them telling you within 24 hours.

I kind of get the feeling that you''d love to let this rental take care of itself and just pay off, but that''s rarely how it works

The way you put it does sound kind of minor. lol. But this whole bathroom mess happened because they really didn''t want to pay for finding out where the water was coming from so they passed the cost on to me. I just find that a very disgusting way of handling it. Now it feels like they''re trying to hide it, ya know?

The property management company is the one responsible for handling the work on the building and they collect the maintanence payments from the owners, but I''m responsible for collecting the rent from my tenants. They do however charge me one months mantainence per year for renting it out. Not complaining about that.

You''re right, i''m not cut out to be a "landlord" in fact I hate it. But I do take care of the problems when I''m notified, and i do it right away.
I did tell one of the tenants today that they must notify me right away if the management co. enters the apartment, there are any problems (before they get worse) or anything that has the potential to become a problem.

Meanwhile, I''m going there tomorrow to meet with the co-op board president and look at my bathroom ceiling.. sigh..

 

[D&T]

first I would say check your landlord tenant act in your state to see what recourse you have, second. Sounds like it''s between the property management company and your tenant that you need to address this. If its your tenant then it should be coming out of their security deposit. If its your management company at fault then you may have to address this with them, do you have specified agreement on your terms with the management company?

 

[elle_chris]

My management company doesn''t deal with anyone but shareholders. My tenants had nothing to do with the water damage, but are at fault for not letting me know what was going on.

There''s really no reason for me to take anything from their security deposit? They didn''t cause any damage.
The co-op will fix the ceiling (as they''ve always done) and the tiles but i''m hoping that tomorrows meeting will push them into finding out where exactly the water that''s causing my damage is coming from.

I am though thinking about not re-newing the lease and just taking the loss until i can find new tenants. Mature ones this time.

 

[Elmorton]

Date: 5/21/2009 9:08:21 PM
Author: elle_chris
My management company doesn't deal with anyone but shareholders. My tenants had nothing to do with the water damage, but are at fault for not letting me know what was going on.


There's really no reason for me to take anything from their security deposit? They didn't cause any damage.

The co-op will fix the ceiling (as they've always done) and the tiles but i'm hoping that tomorrows meeting will push them into finding out where exactly the water that's causing my damage is coming from.


I am though thinking about not re-newing the lease and just taking the loss until i can find new tenants. Mature ones this time.

Basically, I agree with PP. Also - while I know this is really stressful to you, I think you were probably out of line when yelling at your tenant. Unless they signed something to the effect, they really aren't "at fault" for not telling you what's going on. As the landlord, it's your responsibility to be on top that. Maintenance should have contacted you directly/you should have an agreement with them to contact you directly - it's enough of a PITA that your tenants have to deal with people coming in and doing work for something that doesn't affect them. I don't think this speaks anything about their maturity, and unless your tenants have trashed the place or haven't paid you, they're being good tenants.

 

[elle_chris]

Elmorton- There''s water damage to the bathroom ceiling that''s been getting worse according to the one I spoke with today. How can they not notify me when this happens?

As far as people coming in, yeah, i know it''s a pain. So when I had to redo the bathroom last year, and they couldn''t use the shower for 5 days because the tub was drying, i cut that months rent payment by 50% because I knew between the work, and the tub it was a burden. I dunno, but i''ve been pretty cool with the both of them even when rent is late. It happens. So yeah, i guess i expect to be contacted when things start to fall apartm and the water problems persist, and tiles that are less than a year old get broken by a plumber.
Never thought i was asking for alot.

 

[janinegirly]

good luck with that one! sorry, I have had my share of frustations with boards! In our case the board has majority representation from the developer...so talk about shady!

Suiing co-op/condo boards does happen, but is not easy. You can file a complaint with the Attorney General, which is at least one way of making them realize you''re serious (although we all know that complaint will sit in a file). Also better to talk to other owners so you can band together, and then maybe obtain an attorney. Will be lengthy and expensive but is possible.

A better route is to be such a pain in the *ss that they try to give you something to keep you quiet. But I sympathize, it''s aggravating dealing with NYC red tape!!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/21/2009 10:04:33 PM
Author: elle_chris
Elmorton- There''s water damage to the bathroom ceiling that''s been getting worse according to the one I spoke with today. How can they not notify me when this happens?


As far as people coming in, yeah, i know it''s a pain. So when I had to redo the bathroom last year, and they couldn''t use the shower for 5 days because the tub was drying, i cut that months rent payment by 50% because I knew between the work, and the tub it was a burden. I dunno, but i''ve been pretty cool with the both of them even when rent is late. It happens. So yeah, i guess i expect to be contacted when things start to fall apartm and the water problems persist, and tiles that are less than a year old get broken by a plumber.

Never thought i was asking for alot.

No one is saying that you haven''t been nice or patient previously with them. Just that you shouldn''t be yelling at your tenants for being confused about a situation you also are confused about.

And FWIW-if a plumber came in to fix something in *my* apartment I would think that my landlord would have known about it-so I probably wouldn''t have gone back to them and told them since I assumed they sent the plumber in the first place ya know?

I think it was just a misunderstanding and if they are otherwise good tenants a simple "Next time I would really appreciate it if you let me know what''s going on at the first sign of trouble" would be sufficient. I think it can be really confusing for a tenant if a different person collects rent than does maintenance-so that is probably why they didn''t call you because you aren''t the one usually doing the maintenance if I understand correctly?

 

[elle_chris]

janine- I never thought about talking to the other owners. Thanks for the idea.

Neat- This is where the problem comes in with a co-op. If there's a problem inside the apartment, it's my responsibility to fix it. If the problem is in the building (which the water issue is) it's the co-ops. But as the co-op blamed me for the water damage, the tenants knew I was fixing it as i had to take a week off of work and be there everyday to make sure everything was being done. They also knew that it wasn't coming from my apartment and even sympathized that i got stuck paying for repairs that weren't needed. So since the problem wasm't resolved after i redid it, and the ceiling needs to be re-plastered yet again, i don't understand why they didn't let me know?

The second issue is, that I didn't know the management co. sent a plumber in January. No one told me. Not the co-op, not the management co. and not the tenants. So the plumber did the work, broke the tiles (yes, i know it doesn't sound like a big deal but when you spend over 8k redoing it less than 5 months earlier you get mad) and didn't fix them, i mean.. i dunno.. but doesn't common sense prevail, like a phone call saying what happened?

I do feel bad for yelling at the guy. But I'm just so frustrated. Had I known in January, I could of gone straight to the co-op board then and said "look, i just did the work at the end of August and it wasn't the problem. I want you to find out what's causing the damage downstairs as well a my apartment immediately."

Am talking to the board president this afternoon. Will see what she says.

ETA: Neat- even if you assumed the landlord sent the plumber, if the plumber broke something wouldn't you let the landlord know?