Stupid Argument - who is right and who is wrong?

[Lauren8211]

Ok, so FF and I had the mother of all stupid arguments on Saturday.

We''re leaving for the day, right before he leaves, he asks me to put away my flat iron and blowdryer, because they''re sitting in the living room, on the floor, by the wall, unplugged. I was doing my hair in there with a mirror, so he could use the shower.

I stared at him like he was nuts. "Are you seriously asking me to put my blowdryer and flat iron away when your socks, dirty bowls, and clothes are all over the living room?"

We proceed to get into an argument about how the flat iron and blow dryer do not "belong" there, so he wants them put away. He says he doesnt even notice his mess, (the bowls, socks, etc), and it doesnt bother him that those are out.

Ok, so just because the blowdryer bothers him, but his mess doesnt, he has the right to tell me to put my stuff away while he can leave all of his out?

We concluded with he will never ask me to put something away of my own, if his stuff is a mess all over also, and that he can put it away without mentioning it to me. But... I know he thinks he is still right about this, and I also know he doesn''t see my point. He thought I was being ridiculous.

I''ve never been more certain that I''m right.

Who is right? LOL.

 

[princesss]

I don't think it matters who is right, as long as you guys have come to a resolution on how it'll be handled.

That said, the hypocracy of making a mess and then saying his mess doesn't count but your mess does and ought to be cleaned up (because he only "sees" your mess) would irk me a little.

ETA: I don't know how to spell hypoc...hipoc...hypocris...screw it.

 

[b.anna]

hey elle! sorry to hear about the fight. it def sounds like an argument i would have with my ff (he thinks i have too much "stuff" and i think he lives the same lifestyle he did in college - clothes STORED in the DRYER, dishes never cleaned up, MAIL EVERYWHERE).

anyway, back to you maybe talk more about, instead of being angry and stubborn about who''s right, especially if it''s still bugging you. maybe you can both say something like "we should both learn not to make messes around the house" (cuz messes are never good, no matter what they are.) and being polite goes a long way! instead of saying "put your flatiron away, etc it doesn''t belong here" he could more considerate, and maybe you could follow suite.

my $0.02. ff and i have learned taht being considerate goes a lot longer than yelling and being stubborn lol.

 

[Lauren8211]

Yeah, I know it shouldn't matter who is right, but I guess whats bugging me still is that he looked at me like I had 2 heads when I told him he was being a hypocrite. I only ask him to clean his messes when I have cleaned mine. If I'm trying to clean up the kitchen, I'll ask him to help.I just can't imagine sitting on my @$$ and tell him to clean up something while my stuff was still out.

I guess what I really want to hear is how his perspective makes sense, and why he thought mine was so crazy. I TRULY do not understand how he could think what he was doing was OK, and try to justify why my mess should be cleaned up and his shouldn't. It was probably one of the most irrational things I've ever heard come out of his mouth, but he was SO certain that I was being crazy!

 

[sammyj]

Date: 5/19/2009 3:44:39 PM
Author: princesss
I don't think it matters who is right, as long as you guys have come to a resolution on how it'll be handled.

That said, the hypocracy of making a mess and then saying his mess doesn't count but your mess does and ought to be cleaned up (because he only 'sees' your mess) would irk me a little.

ETA: I don't know how to spell hypoc...hipoc...hypocris...screw it.

Oh princesss...you almost had it!

But yes, I totally agree that they hypocrisy of the situation would have made me upset...and I'm guessing that's the basis of why elle thinks she's right...because her SO was being hypocritical in that he made a big deal about her messes while he didn't even notice his own. I'm guessing that messiness had nothing to do with the argument in the end!

I see your point elle, and I agree with you. My FI is somewhat similar in that he leaves his socks and underwear on our bedroom floor and I am often the one who has to put his stuff in the hamper. Sometimes I leave clothes on the bed when I undress and if he goes to bed before me, he will NEVER put my stuff away and he'll crawl into bed with the covers and my clothes on top of him

. I think eventually it'll come to a point when it won't be a your stuff/my stuff issue and you'll both put each other's stuff away (hopefully?)...so the resolution you came up with sounds like a good start.

 

[CurlySue]

Reading this made me chuckle. You sound like me.

So obviously, you are TOTALLY RIGHT.

 

[Squirrly]

personally the food bowls being out would bug me, if they''re dirty they can attract flies and grow things.
i''m afraid i can''t help you with seeing his perspective because i really don''t think there''s such a thing as a "mess in the right place" and i''m a horribly unkempt person!

maybe once things have cooled off a little, have a discussion about it and decide that no matter if the mess is in the "right room" a mess should still be cleaned up, regardless of who it belongs to?

perhaps i should start cleaning my room tonight...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/19/2009 3:39:09 PM
Author:elledizzy5
Ok, so FF and I had the mother of all stupid arguments on Saturday.

We''re leaving for the day, right before he leaves, he asks me to put away my flat iron and blowdryer, because they''re sitting in the living room, on the floor, by the wall, unplugged. I was doing my hair in there with a mirror, so he could use the shower.

I stared at him like he was nuts. ''Are you seriously asking me to put my blowdryer and flat iron away when your socks, dirty bowls, and clothes are all over the living room?''

We proceed to get into an argument about how the flat iron and blow dryer do not ''belong'' there, so he wants them put away. He says he doesnt even notice his mess, (the bowls, socks, etc), and it doesnt bother him that those are out.

Ok, so just because the blowdryer bothers him, but his mess doesnt, he has the right to tell me to put my stuff away while he can leave all of his out?

We concluded with he will never ask me to put something away of my own, if his stuff is a mess all over also, and that he can put it away without mentioning it to me. But... I know he thinks he is still right about this, and I also know he doesn''t see my point. He thought I was being ridiculous.

I''ve never been more certain that I''m right.

Who is right? LOL.

You guys came to that conclusion, even though you still think he thinks he''s right? Well kudos to both of you!

Relationships are not about who is right, who is wrong, making sure the other people can admit he''s wrong when he thinks he''s right, blah blah blah. It''s about coming to a mutually agreeable outcome (and hopefully not harboring any bitter feelings). So you two handled this one well.

But I''ll say...you don''t seem wrong.

 

[decodelighted]

Are you sure he didn''t realize how right you were in the moment ... but needed to save face? Letting people save face is something I''m still trying to work on.

The other day my DH & I were struggling to put a new special "allergy" mattress cover on the bed & after we were done & out of breath he turned to walk away & said "You''re welcome" and I was all ... "EXCUSEEEEE ME?" And as he turned around I saw the realization flash across his face that putting the mattress cover on wasn''t a FAVOR he was doing for me that I should have THANKED him for ... it''s both of our house and it was a project we were doing TOGETHER. Perhaps the absolutely livid/slack-jawed expression I must have been wearing helped that realization sink in a little deeper. He came over and hugged me and apologized for being a jerk.

GAH! Men!

 

[gwendolyn]

ELLE. Oh my gosh, that would totally tick me off too! Seriously, J and I would have words if he did that to me. Not sure I can suggest his side of things, because whether he notices his mess or not, it''s still THERE and needs to get cleaned up at some point (unless he likes the idea of ants and even cockroaches? eww). So, yeah. Don''t know what he was thinking, but him thinking *I* was the crazy one would have set me off too. Blarg.

 

[lucyandroger]

You''re RIGHT.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/19/2009 4:17:55 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 5/19/2009 3:39:09 PM
Author:elledizzy5
Ok, so FF and I had the mother of all stupid arguments on Saturday.

We''re leaving for the day, right before he leaves, he asks me to put away my flat iron and blowdryer, because they''re sitting in the living room, on the floor, by the wall, unplugged. I was doing my hair in there with a mirror, so he could use the shower.

I stared at him like he was nuts. ''Are you seriously asking me to put my blowdryer and flat iron away when your socks, dirty bowls, and clothes are all over the living room?''

We proceed to get into an argument about how the flat iron and blow dryer do not ''belong'' there, so he wants them put away. He says he doesnt even notice his mess, (the bowls, socks, etc), and it doesnt bother him that those are out.

Ok, so just because the blowdryer bothers him, but his mess doesnt, he has the right to tell me to put my stuff away while he can leave all of his out?

We concluded with he will never ask me to put something away of my own, if his stuff is a mess all over also, and that he can put it away without mentioning it to me. But... I know he thinks he is still right about this, and I also know he doesn''t see my point. He thought I was being ridiculous.

I''ve never been more certain that I''m right.

Who is right? LOL.

You guys came to that conclusion, even though you still think he thinks he''s right? Well kudos to both of you!

Relationships are not about who is right, who is wrong, making sure the other people can admit he''s wrong when he thinks he''s right, blah blah blah. It''s about coming to a mutually agreeable outcome (and hopefully not harboring any bitter feelings). So you two handled this one well.

But I''ll say...you don''t seem wrong.

I guess I''m really struggling to hear a justification about his argument from someone other than him. I am not wrapping my head around his logic.

We came to that conclusion because the argument was going no where. He said "What am I supposed to do if you leave something out and it bugs me?"

I said "Either make sure your stuff is SPOTLESS, and ask me to put it away, or do it yourself without making a production of it." ( You know the one where he hufffs, walks to the blow dryer, picks it up loudly, and hums to himself all the way to the bathroom where he proceeds to slam drawers as loud as possible so that I know he''s putting my stuff away)

We are good about compromising when we can''t see eye-to-eye, but MAN am I having trouble letting this one go.

 

[audball]

Elle--

I''d say with the information presented that you were absolutely right to be upset/mad. I''d be livid if S was telling me to clean up something of mine while he still had his crap all over the place. I absolutely agree with Gwen in that whether or not he notices his mess less than yours, doesn''t mean his isn''t there and doesn''t give him the right to ask you to do something he clearly isn''t practicing himself. It''s rather hypocritical.

 

[Vani]

You are. Totally.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/19/2009 4:18:54 PM
Author: decodelighted
Are you sure he didn''t realize how right you were in the moment ... but needed to save face? Letting people save face is something I''m still trying to work on.

The other day my DH & I were struggling to put a new special ''allergy'' mattress cover on the bed & after we were done & out of breath he turned to walk away & said ''You''re welcome'' and I was all ... ''EXCUSEEEEE ME?'' And as he turned around I saw the realization flash across his face that putting the mattress cover on wasn''t a FAVOR he was doing for me that I should have THANKED him for ... it''s both of our house and it was a project we were doing TOGETHER. Perhaps the absolutely livid/slack-jawed expression I must have been wearing helped that realization sink in a little deeper. He came over and hugged me and apologized for being a jerk.

GAH! Men!

Deco, when he does the saving face thing, he usually admits it later, but he was SO stubborn about this one! Unrelenting! He was so sure he was right!

Thats hilarious about the underhanded "you''re welcome."

I would''ve reacted the same way, but obviously you do it better, because I did NOT get that hug/apology post-realization of jerkiness.

I need to practice my disappointed/angry face. Gotta get that in shape before we get married.

 

[Squirrly]

i''ll ask my boy about this when he gets home today, but since he''s a neat-freak he just might agree whole-heartedly with you. he did room with a pretty messy person though so he might have some insight.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/19/2009 4:21:17 PM
Author: gwendolyn
ELLE. Oh my gosh, that would totally tick me off too! Seriously, J and I would have words if he did that to me. Not sure I can suggest his side of things, because whether he notices his mess or not, it''s still THERE and needs to get cleaned up at some point (unless he likes the idea of ants and even cockroaches? eww). So, yeah. Don''t know what he was thinking, but him thinking *I* was the crazy one would have set me off too. Blarg.

We had words! Oh goodness did we have words!

He was seriously justifying with "Well I don''t notice my messes"

Wha...???

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/19/2009 4:32:46 PM
Author: Squirrly
i''ll ask my boy about this when he gets home today, but since he''s a neat-freak he just might agree whole-heartedly with you. he did room with a pretty messy person though so he might have some insight.

Let me set one thing straight... FF is a SLOB. He is 10 times worse than I am. NOTHING of the mess in that living room was mine, except for the blowdryer and flat iron next to the wall.

But a male perspective would be nice.

 

[Efe]

You''re right. Could he be upset about something else and just picking a fight?

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 5/19/2009 4:42:56 PM
Author: BizouMom
You''re right. Could he be upset about something else and just picking a fight?

That is truly the only explanation I can think of. He does pick fights on occasion, but usually he gives in and says he was in the wrong, or being unreasonable.

He''s really sticking to his guns on this one!

 

[sunnyd]

You''re totally right. I can''t even begin to understand his logic either.

FI and I have the same rule (well, mostly me because he''s the messy one

) in that I won''t ask him to pick up unless my stuff is clean too. Otherwise he points at it like "Ummmmm..."

 

[princesss]

Did you move into his place, or did you get a new place together that neither of you had lived in before? Because if it was his place, maybe he''s used to his messes so girl things being out of the "proper" place makes his Spidey Sense tingle, but his messes are the norm for the apartment.

 

[Lauren8211]

Sunnyd... that is our new rule, now.

Princesss, this is our 3rd place together. We''ve lived together for almost 3 years, so it''s not like he''s new at this.

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/19/2009 4:56:37 PM
Author: elledizzy5
Sunnyd... that is our new rule, now.

Princesss, this is our 3rd place together. We''ve lived together for almost 3 years, so it''s not like he''s new at this.

Okay, then that would seriously bug the bejeebus out of me.

 

[Squirrly]

i''m impressed that you haven''t gotten into this fight yet after three years living together!

 

[TravelingGal]

Elle, sometimes you have to let things go for the greater good.

Believe me, I know where you were coming from. For the most part of last year, TGuy and I had our bumps. None of it was child related, interestingly, but we were missing the third part of what I believe is key to a successful family life...time with each other.

In the beginning of this year, we had a serious heart to heart. We were trying to figure out how we were going to fix some things, so we agreed to start small. I asked him to take out the trash EVERY day without me having to nag him. Keep in mind, this is a guy who a few years ago when we agreed that trash would be his duty went out and bought a BIGGER TRASH CAN so he wouldn't have to empty it every day!

I asked him what bugs him and what I could do, and he said very tentatively, something to the effect of:

"OK, don't be mad, but you asked me what bothers me and I don't know why it bothers me. But it does. I wish you would clean the house more. I come home and sometimes stuff is in the same place it doesn't seem like other people's houses are like this."

Um, ok, that's because they hire a CLEANER. Keep in mind, because I work from home, I do the majority of the cleaning. Yes, I did let it slack because I was busy raising a KID. I wanted to bonk him over the head. I really did. Last I checked, I'm not a servant.

But I was in a marriage (is that indentured servanthood? haha) and knew sometimes it took WORK to make it work.

Since I knew bonking him over the head have been counter productive. So I said, "OK, I appreciate you telling me that, because it is how you feel and I'm not going to negate this. How about this, you take out the trash every day and I will make sure SOMETHING is in better shape when you come home than when you left. Everyday, no matter how small."

It's been 5 months now and I still can't believe sometimes he had the nerve to tell me that. It's also been 5 months and we've both kept our promise. And bizarrely, with those two tiny efforts and both of us validating each other's feelings, our marriage is the best its ever been. I know it sounds crazy, but a cleaner house put him in a better mood. Empty trash put me in a better mood. As our moods started improving, we each starting doing more and more without the other asking. He puts all the dishes away because I hate doing that, and I do the dishes because he hates it. That led to more appreciating of each other and him volunteering for all sorts of things without me asking. Which led to us liking each other a lot lot more.

It's so strange. Who would have thought? But the fact that neither of us told the other they were wrong or unreasonable when we had that heart to heart somehow snowballed into the best few months our relationship has had thus far.

 

[Squirrly]

what a great compromise Tgal, and i prolly would''ve waited a couple hours and bonked him with a pillow...

oh and before i forget this isn''t all that stupid of an argument to have, since you live together and how the home is kept will affect both of your moods.

if it makes you feel any better, FF and i once got into a throwdown over MLA formatting. turned out to be more of an argument about respect but that''s how it started and we laugh about it to this day.

 

[princesss]

TGal, I don''t know if you know this, but about 3/4 of the time when you talk about parenting and your marriage, I take notes.

Consider this pasted in princesss'' things to remember binder.

 

[TravelingGal]

Squirrly, I wanted to, believe me. It was all I could DO to keep my slack jaw from dangling there.

Princesss, ha, thanks. I''m just like everyone else...working on a marriage, day by day.

 

[jcarlylew]

i can think of only ONE reasonable answer for why your man asked.
he''s just paranoid that it would start a house fire.


that said, i would fight back like HELL if E did the same thing if it was about clothes vs junk. more so becuase we''re both messy, but he is more than me.

i only get in trouble when i put knives in the sink. whoopes