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Study: sexual harassment of tipped employees, especially waitresses

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
47,577
Perhaps I am not as sensitive and do not take offence as easily as others.

Perhaps I give out some kind of aura that says 'don't mess with me'.

Otherwise I would go out about on my own much less, especially to places like pubs where a pint-drinking ethnic minority female of a certain age stands out like a sore thumb!

Based on my own experience and all that.

DK :))

I hear you @dk168 and agree. If I let what others say get me down I wouldn't be where I am today.

I am just fighting for those who are not as tough and strong as you and me. In this century and decade we need to be treated with respect and dignity. We should not be referred to using terms that are demeaning and downplay who we are as individuals. In the name of Helen Reddy, we are women hear is roar. In numbers to great to ignore. I am paraphrasing though...for those of you interested in this song that is many decades old. And here we are. Still fighting the same battle.

I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'Cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
You can bend but never break me
'Cause it only serves to make me
More determined to achieve my final goal
And I come back even stronger
Not a novice any longer
'Cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long long way to go
Until I make my brother understand
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
Oh, I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong

I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong
I am woman
 

bling_dream19

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
2,863
I hear you @dk168 and agree. If I let what others say get me down I wouldn't be where I am today.

I am just fighting for those who are not as tough and strong as you and me. In this century and decade we need to be treated with respect and dignity. We should not be referred to using terms that are demeaning and downplay who we are as individuals. In the name of Helen Reddy, we are women hear is roar. In numbers to great to ignore. I am paraphrasing though...for those of you interested in this song that is many decades old. And here we are. Still fighting the same battle.

I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'Cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
You can bend but never break me
'Cause it only serves to make me
More determined to achieve my final goal
And I come back even stronger
Not a novice any longer
'Cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long long way to go
Until I make my brother understand
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
Oh, I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong

I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong
I am woman

Side note...watched the movie about her life a few months and its a great movie! She really went through it and parts were hard to watch but overall good movie.
 

MamaBee

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
Messages
11,149
This just infuriates me. When I was younger…a colleague of my husband would hug me in front of my husband when everyone was busy laughing, etc. so it would look innocent. He would give me a hug a little too long so he could get a feel of my b**bs. It didn’t register right away…I never told my husband because he had to work with him. When I realized what he was doing..the next time he did that I shot my hand out when he looked like he was coming in for a hug. Things like this happened so many times when I was younger…It started as a teenager with my male high school teacher. I also had a woman teacher make a move on me too. I shake my head because I wish I had the nerve to put them in their place at the time. It was a different era…We just kept our mouths shut which is just horrible.
 

stracci2000

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,733
He would give me a hug a little too long so he could get a feel of my b**bs.

Yeah, THAT hug. They get away with it every time. Disgusting.

When I was new in the grocery business, I had a couple of managers who thought they were very funny. They used to tease me that I liked rough s*x or some other stupid thing they made up to make me uncomfortable. They liked to see my face get red, apparently. So every time I would walk by the office window, they would hold up and jingle the handcuffs they kept in there for shoplifters.
I tried to protest, but those silly boys were having SO much fun embarrassing me............

I should've reported them, but I was naive, and didn't even know who their superiors were.
 
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Austina

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
5,831
I used to work in the building industry in an office full of men, they’d come up to me and put their hands around my waist (Yes it really was that tiny) and tease me that I must be the oldest virgin in London - I was 18 at the time!
 

GeliL

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
198
@Dancing Fire is correct about his culture so we should respect and not judge through the lens of our own culture.

#1 - 你很漂亮! / 你真帅!
Nǐ hěn piàoliang! / Nǐ zhēn shuài!
You’re beautiful! / You’re handsome!

This is probably the most popular compliment you will hear in China. Girls are often referred to as beautiful women 美女 (měinǚ) and boys as handsome men 帅哥 (shuàigē). Even complete strangers compliment each other’s appearance.

Can attest that almost everyone is called either pretty girl or handsome guy in China. It's used as a form of compliment and endearment, usually used to someone they don't know. It's kind of a "I don't know you and would like to be polite in addressing you but also not be overly formal and address you as "Miss"" mentality. This is more commonly used between a customer and someone who works in service, and it is common to address each other like that. I'd say that it usually happens in a casual setting and in a professional setting it probably still is degrading. I have never worked in Asia so I wouldn't really know, but imagine someone telling you you are wrong while calling you "honey" at work!! My blood would boil.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,773
Can attest that almost everyone is called either pretty girl or handsome guy in China. It's used as a form of compliment and endearment, usually used to someone they don't know.
Yup, but to our American PSer that's sexual harassment.

I always say... hi pretty girl :wavey:to Chinese waitresses and not one of them slapped me on the face yet.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,617
If I moved to any country I'd learn, respect, and use their language and customs when out and about.

If I moved from any country, including China, to America I'd learn, respect, and use American customs when out and about.

When X is okay in one's country of origin that does not mean it's okay in another.
 
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kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,617
Yup, but to our American PSer that's sexual harassment.

I always say... hi pretty girl :wavey:to Chinese waitresses and not one of them slapped me on the face yet.

That "Chinese" waitresses' and her mother, grandmother, great grandmother, etc. may have all lived in America.
You don't know.
 

GeliL

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
198
Yup, but to our American PSer that's sexual harassment.

I always say... hi pretty girl :wavey:to Chinese waitresses and not one of them slapped me on the face yet.

Well it's hard to understand the context without knowing what it's like cultural wise, without having lived there. Another thing to note is that in countries like China and Japan I hear people judging others for not being "manly" or "womanly" enough all the time. So I'm just trying to say while it is normal and considered neutral to call someone that now, it isn't directly linked to how people within that culture perceive it and it is still subject to change if the culture itself is perceived as problematic down the line.

In the US though calling a Chinese waitress pretty girl has a slightly different context. Depends on if they are in a significantly Chinese environment. Not getting slapped in the face is not an indication that they are ok with it, but if the waitresses grew up in China and Chinese people around them call them as a form in endearment, then it mostly likely isn't considered offensive.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,773
That "Chinese" waitresses' and her mother, grandmother, great grandmother, etc. may have all lived in America.
You don't know.
It wouldn't be a problem if they speak Cantonese. Let me put it this way....if a waiter said to my wife " hi pretty girl, what would you like to order for dinner"? . I can guarantee you that my wife wouldn't feel offended, in fact she would take it as compliment b/c the waiter called "pretty girl" at her age.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,463
... one of the many reasons I feel tipping should be outlawed.


Stop tipping and pay them a descent wage

i occasionally see tip jars in NZ (where the minimum wage is $20/h - my loose change goes into the SPCA box
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,463
I was once kneeling down putting tags on a lower shelf when a young man approached me and said "On your knees, woman!"
I stood up, looked him in the eye and said "What did you say to me? How dare you speak to me that way! You are rude and disrespectful!" He backed up and started to sputter and apologize.

They don't know you, so it is easy to say inappropriate things to a random employee in a store. They're just gonna laugh and walk out, having embarrassed and disrespected you.

Good for you !
An inspiration to us all
thankfully (or not) all ive had (when cleaning an vacuuming as a shop junior ) is come home and do mine :angryfire:
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,463
Hi pretty girl sounds a bit demeaning to me
Lovelly lady perhaps does not especially if it were young lady !
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,894
It wouldn't be a problem if they speak Cantonese. Let me put it this way....if a waiter said to my wife " hi pretty girl, what would you like to order for dinner"? . I can guarantee you that my wife wouldn't feel offended, in fact she would take it as compliment b/c the waiter called "pretty girl" at her age.

This helps me understand a bit better, and maybe it is cultural and not insulting to some Cantonese women, so your wife wouldn't mind. But how can you tell just by looking at someone, who speaks Cantonese, that they don't. I'm third generation Italian. I speak Italian. But I'm as American as it gets. If I were working at an Italian restaurant and someone grabbed my cheeks and told me I was beautiful, I wouldn't be happy even though that was what my Italian relatives always did. I guess I'm wondering how you can determine that the waitress, who speak Cantonese, is traditional enough, to appreciate being called "pretty girl". This is an honest question and I'm truly interested in the answer.

I'm going to take it on faith that you would not walk into a business meeting and call any woman, Cantonese or not, pretty girl.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,773
I guess I'm wondering how you can determine that the waitress, who speak Cantonese, is traditional enough, to appreciate being called "pretty girl". This is an honest question and I'm truly interested in the answer.
This is still a common phase to use in all Cantonese restaurant today. Believe me none of these Cantonese speaking hostesses/waitresses will feel offended.
 
W

westofhere

Guest
You have no idea what they feel about patriarchal language, Dancing Fire. I doubt you’ve ever asked. Of course they smile when
you say it—they want that 20% tip.

Agree with Kenny that servers should be paid a living wage. How it ever became legal to pay them less than minimum wage—ugh. At least Covid has driven wages up, though where I live $15/hr is considered a “good” wage for food workers, even though it’s still poverty.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,773
Agree with Kenny that servers should be paid a living wage. How it ever became legal to pay them less than minimum wage—ugh. At least Covid has driven wages up, though where I live $15/hr is considered a “good” wage for food workers, even though it’s still poverty.
IYO, what should be the minimum?
 
W

westofhere

Guest
It depends on where someone lives! $15/hr comes to around 31k a year—after taxes, social security, etc., less than 2k a month. Where I live, a 1-bedroom apartment is $1,500 a month and up. If someone lives where such is $600 a month, they might make $15/hr stretch, especially if it comes with health care. If they live in SF or NYC, it would be nowhere near enough to meet rent, util, food, and public transportation. One thing Covid has shown is that when Americans have disposable income, we’re expert disposers—I redecorated several rooms during Covid, and teverywhere I bought furniture, flooring, etc told me that EVERYONE was redecorating and they couldn’t keep furniture in stock.

Maybe for wait staff there’s a medium ground—a higher wage and a lower tip percentage, for example. Imagine a world where all you had to do was calculate 10% :) . I think most decent humans find it a pleasure to tip workers (waitstaff, lawncare folks, hairdresser, my masseuse!) for good service, but the fact that I’m picking up restaurant owners’ slack while they participate in a system that should be illegal (paying less than minimum wage) is annoying.
 
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