Stone performance in Art Deco rings

[bzimpf]

Hi folks!

Long-time lurker here - so many things to read and know about diamonds before buying.

Well, it's time to buy something for my girl. Not an e-ring so no solitaires for me.

We both like the Art Deco styles and have similar taste in them but I'm concerned about the cut quality and perfomance of many of the stones used.

For example: http://www.antiquejewelryforsale.com/viewProduct-636-PLATINUM_ART_DECO_ENGAGEMENT_RING.html

I like the ring but wonder what it would look like with a 000 ideal cut.

Do folks buy these and swap stones or do they have them duplicated and pick the stone?

Or does the setting negate some of the benefits of a high performer (I doubt it)?

Would an H&A stone be "too busy" or look strange?

Just wondering if I'm alone on this - love the setting but the stone is a bit meh...

Thoughts of what folks have done and jewelers who could duplicate a setting like this?

Many Thanks in advance for you thoughts

bzimpf

 

[Rhea]

Old cuts have a personality of their own and aren't for everyone. If you want an ideal cut, you really don't want an original, intact piece. There are plenty of good replicas out there - check out singlestone, and jewelsbyericagrace - or lots of antique stores, including the two I just listed, will have empty settings that you can buy separately for your ideal cut stone.

For me personally, a non-perfect stone doesn't matter. I want the look of an original, the whole piece, and I much prefer the look of older cut stones to newer stones. So yes, the look and beauty of the piece does negate that the stone may not be the greatest performer ever.

 

[vintagelover229]

I would get a stone from GOG if you want an AGS ideal diamond that has a chunky personality. The AVR are amazing and beautiful and perfect for what your looking for.


www.goodoldgold.com


Here is Jonathans youtube videos (I already did the search for you for the AVR the third video in compares that cut to an authentic vintage OEC)
http://www.youtube.com/user/DiamondInfoMan/search?query=august+vintage+round


Jonathan has a ton of settings to chose from that are vintage in style AND they have a TON of estate pieces that they don't have listed-so they may even have an authentic setting that might work for you.

Here is their AVR diamonds for sale
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=1&ctMin=&ctMax=&clarity=&color=&sym=&polish=&agsCutGrd=&giaCutGrd=&cert=&certNum=&optSym=128&tblMin=&tblMax=&depthMin=&depthMax=&crnAMin=&crnAMax=&crnDMin=&crnDMax=&pavAMin=&pavAMax=&pavDMin=&pavDMax=&grdlMin=&grdlMax=&fluo=&priceMin=&priceMax=&wireMin=&wireMax=&widthMin=&widthMax=&lenMin=&lenMax=&culet=&depthPctMin=&depthPctMax=&upGrdlMin=&upGrdlMax=&lowGrdlMin=&lowGrdlMax=&dateMin=&dateMax=&inHouse=3&resultsColumns=402653263

Their new settings
http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingsGallery/

I did a search and I do know they have vintage rings as well-here is a link to the videos of the vintage rings (there are only a couple on video-email them or call and I bet they can take out more and make videos for you)
http://www.youtube.com/user/DiamondInfoMan/search?query=antique+ring


Another option is to get the stone from GOG and order the ring from
www.antiqueengagementrings.com (they also sell completed rings).

www.singlestone.com also carries beautiful vintage and vintage reproduction rings (quite high $ though)

A link to some of GOG vintage rings
http://shop.goodoldgold.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.catshow/catid/179


Good luck!

 

[distracts]

For me personally, a non-perfect stone doesn't matter. I want the look of an original, the whole piece, and I much prefer the look of older cut stones to newer stones. So yes, the look and beauty of the piece does negate that the stone may not be the greatest performer ever.

Yeah... I feel like putting a round brilliant in an art deco setting destroys the look... and I would never, EVER consider pulling out a perfectly good OEC and replacing it with an RB! It nearly gives me a heart attack just to think about that. I mean, if the stone is original to the piece, you'd be essentially destroying an antique piece of artwork.

I think it's much better to get a reproduction with an RB in it instead of an old cut. If you're getting an original vintage ring, KEEP the old cut. (And have you seen any in person? IMO they're much prettier than round brilliants, which to me always seem unpleasantly spiky.) Jewels by Erica Grace and I think Singlestone and antiqueengagementrings.com are good places to look for reproductions and possibly originals.

 

[shimmer]

I agree with distracts above for recommended vendors for a repro look.

If you want a modern RB I would go for a more modern/vintage style ring that can be seen in the likes of tacori, whiteflash has done some nice ones, engagement rings direct, and even leon mege and victor canera. Van craeynest also comes to mind.

 

[bzimpf]

Thanks very much for the feedback. I'm not looking to destroy a piece of art, just wondering if folks do.

I personally would prefer to leave an original stone. It's just that after reading all the cut cut cut, light performance, etc. stuff on this site and others- a "perfectly good" EOC stone without a cert seems like an impossibility. Eyeball color and clarity, no mapping of flaws - my gosh it's a jungle out there!

How could I possibly buy something without an ASET, helium, cert, HCA, etc etc?

Seriously - I appreciate the thoughts - points taken.

Presumably folks like Dover etc. are reputable - when they say VS - eye clean is not a question.

Some of the pricing seems awfully good though - appraised at $17.3k on sale for $7k?

http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/175_carat_antique_style_old_mine_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html

Or this one - appraised at $17.5 on sale for $6k?

http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/150ct_art_deco_style_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html

I thought too good to be true usually was... what am I missing - many of their rings seem like steals - is this normal for estate/antique pieces?

Cheers

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks very much for the feedback. I'm not looking to destroy a piece of art, just wondering if folks do.

I personally would prefer to leave an original stone. It's just that after reading all the cut cut cut, light performance, etc. stuff on this site and others- a "perfectly good" EOC stone without a cert seems like an impossibility. Eyeball color and clarity, no mapping of flaws - my gosh it's a jungle out there!

How could I possibly buy something without an ASET, helium, cert, HCA, etc etc?

Seriously - I appreciate the thoughts - points taken.

Presumably folks like Dover etc. are reputable - when they say VS - eye clean is not a question.

Some of the pricing seems awfully good though - appraised at $17.3k on sale for $7k?

http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/175_carat_antique_style_old_mine_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html

Or this one - appraised at $17.5 on sale for $6k?

http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/150ct_art_deco_style_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html

I thought too good to be true usually was... what am I missing - many of their rings seem like steals - is this normal for estate/antique pieces?

Cheers

Reputable? Well, if by that you mean that they have a reputation, yes. But their reputation is that of using a dart board to grade their jewelry.

I've bought three pieces from them. First piece was a DBTY necklace sold as .5 ctw by Dover and ended up being .21 ctw. Second piece was an old cut ring in a platinum setting sold as J VS. It was SI and M-N in color by Dover. I didn't know either of these was from them when I bought them (both were being resold by the people that bought them from Dover). And then I bought a ring from them based on the pics, and the ctw was wrong again-- and it was engraved on the shank so really all you needed to was look.

I would buy from them again, they honor their return policy and will even give you a partial refund with no quibble as soon as you tell them they were mistaken in their stats. But I would not rely ON ANY DESCRIPTION OF THE JEWELRY and ONLY on the pics.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

"Appraised at..." means absolutely nothing!!! Don't even look at those numbers! Look only at the asking price and decide if that is reasonable or not.

It sounds like you want an antique style ring with a well cut diamond. I will second the idea of Good Old Gold because they sell newly cut antique style stones (August Vintage Rounds and Cushions) with excellent light performance and they also carry very nice brands of antique style settings. I would not buy and old setting and set a modern cut stone in it.

However, when I come back to the idea that this is not an engagement ring, I would really have to make a suggestion to you that it might be much better for this ring to have a colored center stone and not a diamond. Save the diamond for the engagement rings and all the others that might follow. I think it would be very confusing for her to open a gift from you and it be a diamond ring that you don't intend to be an engagement ring.

 

[Gypsy]

Presumably folks like Dover etc. are reputable - when they say VS - eye clean is not a question.

Some of the pricing seems awfully good though - appraised at $17.3k on sale for $7k?

http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/175_carat_antique_style_old_mine_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html

Or this one - appraised at $17.5 on sale for $6k?

http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/150ct_art_deco_style_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html

I thought too good to be true usually was... what am I missing - many of their rings seem like steals - is this normal for estate/antique pieces?

Cheers

Eyeclean is is question on the first one. WHO appraised it at that price? Cause the first one is cushiony-- Old Mine Brilliant and 7k is full retail for that first ring, and no that one has a at least one inclusion that just might be eye visible.


Oh, yeah. The other thing with Dover is their RIDICULOUS appraisal values that are over valued to say the least. My emerald ring was overappraised at 2,500 by them. It's worth 1100.

Dart. Board.

This is the better one of the two, and it is worth what they are asking and does look eyeclean. I would buy this one. But I would ask them if they would take 5k for it. http://www.doverjewelry.com/catalog/engagement_rings_over_5k/150ct_art_deco_style_diamond_platinum_engagement_ring.html But it won't be an I color stone. It will be much closer to K, and that's fine, but you need to understand that before you buy anything.

If you wanted to buy this one I would first ask them to measure the center stone and give you the spread (mm width) first and if it's around 7mm then, that's where it needs to be. If it's less, don't waste your time.

 

[maplefemme]

"Appraised at..." means absolutely nothing!!! Don't even look at those numbers! Look only at the asking price and decide if that is reasonable or not.

It sounds like you want an antique style ring with a well cut diamond. I will second the idea of Good Old Gold because they sell newly cut antique style stones (August Vintage Rounds and Cushions) with excellent light performance and they also carry very nice brands of antique style settings. I would not buy and old setting and set a modern cut stone in it.

However, when I come back to the idea that this is not an engagement ring, I would really have to make a suggestion to you that it might be much better for this ring to have a colored center stone and not a diamond. Save the diamond for the engagement rings and all the others that might follow. I think it would be very confusing for her to open a gift from you and it be a diamond ring that you don't intend to be an engagement ring.

I was about to write the same thing. Plenty of people go with engagement rings that are not "traditional" and not all engagement rings are solitaires. The ring you have posted is not a traditional style engagement, no, but it has a predominant centre diamond and considering you have stated you both have a preference for art deco style rings, therefore your preferences are not traditional, it would not be a stretch for her to make an assumption that you are presenting her with an engagement ring.

 

[Gypsy]

"Appraised at..." means absolutely nothing!!! Don't even look at those numbers! Look only at the asking price and decide if that is reasonable or not.

It sounds like you want an antique style ring with a well cut diamond. I will second the idea of Good Old Gold because they sell newly cut antique style stones (August Vintage Rounds and Cushions) with excellent light performance and they also carry very nice brands of antique style settings. I would not buy and old setting and set a modern cut stone in it.

However, when I come back to the idea that this is not an engagement ring, I would really have to make a suggestion to you that it might be much better for this ring to have a colored center stone and not a diamond. Save the diamond for the engagement rings and all the others that might follow. I think it would be very confusing for her to open a gift from you and it be a diamond ring that you don't intend to be an engagement ring.

I was about to write the same thing. Plenty of people go with engagement rings that are not "traditional" and not all engagement rings are solitaires. The ring you have posted is not a traditional style engagement, no, but it has a predominant centre diamond and considering you have stated you both have a preference for art deco style rings, therefore your preferences are not traditional, it would not be a stretch for her to make an assumption that you are presenting her with an engagement ring.

I have to agree with this. This isn't an appropriate gift, and would be confusing and disappointing. As beautiful as it is, it's not an engagement ring, and it looks similar to one.

I would very much concentrate on something that is not so engagement ring like. I would get her studs, a tennis bracelet, a pendant, or if you want to get her a ring I would get her something very different.

 

[Gypsy]

What's her favorite color. If you want to get her a ring, a colored stone ring would be much more appropriate. A three stone or a halo ring. Art Deco Styled.

 

[Rhea]

I agree with Maple & Gypsy - being presented with a ring that is not an engagement ring could be a huge disappointment for her. I wear an art deco ring with a diamond centre, sapphire and diamond sides and it's taken as being an engagement ring by those around me.

 

[bzimpf]

Folks

I do think some have gotten a bit off topic re: whether it's an appropriate gift as it's not an engagement ring. In the first place, she and I have discussed this ring many times and she absolutely wants a diamond not another stone. In the second place, you are assuming there is another ring, an engagement, and apparently a wedding in the future - she's not expecting a proposal with this ring. I know a ring like this will not be a disappointment but thanks for the warning.

Again, thanks for the feedback on the dealers, ratings, and pricing.

Cheers

 

[Rhea]

I don't think anyone assumed that there would be an engagement or wedding in the future. We all know that lots of times there isn't, just that it could be misunderstood as such and therefore a disappointment if that's what she was expecting. It seems that you have discussed that and are prepared for her not to take it as such. I'm sure other people will also understand once it's explained to them if they choose to comment on her ring.

A few of us have chimed in with ideas on replicas, originals, and actual old stones vs high preforming stones. At this point do you have a preference? The advice will be different if you go for an original setting or original pieces or a replica setting with an ideal cut stone.

 

[bunnycat]

For me personally, a non-perfect stone doesn't matter. I want the look of an original, the whole piece, and I much prefer the look of older cut stones to newer stones. So yes, the look and beauty of the piece does negate that the stone may not be the greatest performer ever.

Yeah... I feel like putting a round brilliant in an art deco setting destroys the look... and I would never, EVER consider pulling out a perfectly good OEC and replacing it with an RB! It nearly gives me a heart attack just to think about that. I mean, if the stone is original to the piece, you'd be essentially destroying an antique piece of artwork.

I think it's much better to get a reproduction with an RB in it instead of an old cut. If you're getting an original vintage ring, KEEP the old cut. (And have you seen any in person? IMO they're much prettier than round brilliants, which to me always seem unpleasantly spiky.) Jewels by Erica Grace and I think Singlestone and antiqueengagementrings.com are good places to look for reproductions and possibly originals.

Wow- this is exactly what I have been thinking. Unpleasantly spiky.