Starting the journey

[CaptainPolyester]

For those who are regular readers of pricescope, scouring the internet, working to educate themselves to try and understand the jungle of information that can go into finding a diamond, and ultimately trying to make it more than just sigining a check, I thought I''d start this post and maybe help others going through building an engagement ring.

I''m a "lurker." It seems that so many people who finally write their first post apologize for "lurking" on the forums.
"Lurking" seems to be exactly what you should be doing if you''re reading these forums. There''s a lot of basic and complex information floating around, and the best thing I think you can do is take some time and just get familiar with the concepts, terms, and details involved. If you''ve taken the time to do more than walk into a Brick and Mortar jewelry shop, then sit back, grab a drink, and "lurk" all you want.

I''ve been pouring over old and new posts for almost a month now and finally feel like I''ve got somewhat of a stronger feel for what I''m doing and what I''m looking for.

So, here''s my story.

I''ve been dating my girlfriend for almost four years now. I live in New York and she lives in Australia. I''ve plans to move to Australia in a few years and, even though we''ve known we''d like to spend the rest of our lives together, I didn''t plan on trying to get engaged until I finally moved there (mostly because I couldn''t afford it).
But, things changed. I''ve been working overtime and managed to save up a pretty cool budget 18-20k, and decided I might try and surprise her.

I''ve got my proposal plans, but will save those for maybe another forum where it probably fits better.

The Diamond.

Through all my reading and researching I''ve decided on a rough size range:

1.7-2.2 ct. round brilliant

A Cut: SuperIdeal

A colour range: d-i

and a clarity range: IF-SI1

I''ve managed to find a setting I really enjoy and think she''ll love (which is a lot more stressful when you''re trying for a complete and absolutely unexpected surprise),

and have come across a lot of great diamond dealers that have excellent reputations and good stocks.

In the end, I only need one diamond, and that''s where I''m at right now.

I''ve just about got my finances in order and am starting to seriously look at picking up a diamond within the next month.

I don''t really have any questions for the forum right now, but might once I start narrowing my list down.

In the end, I just thought this might be a nice way to let other people in a similar spot, read along and avoid some of the pitfalls I''ve come across, and ask questions along the way too.

My thanks to all the regulars who constantly help keep the information accurate and advice flowing.

 

[strmrdr]

Welcome to PS!
Love the nickname.
chuckled when I read it.

 

[diamondfan]

Yes, welcome! Your name sounds like a cross between a Marvel comic and a John Waters movie!

Good luck. Sounds like you have a great budget and a good idea of what you want. I am sure she will be bowled over, esp. if she was not expecting this for a long time to come. Cannot wait to see the stone and setting and have you post when you have popped the question!

 

[mrssalvo]

Welcome. i''m sure your gf will be blown away with the early surprise..

 

[Kaleigh]

So glad to have you with us. Lurking is a good thing, you learn a lot and then when you''re ready to ask questions you can ask away. I lurked for 3 months before I joined.

Welcome to PS!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, talk about a long distance relationship! Your post was very good, and I look forward to seeing the stones you select! Welcome!

 

[CaptainPolyester]

This is by no means my recommendation to anyone else on how to go about buying a diamond, or what to look for, it''s only what I''ve done so far.
So, square one. This is wehre I started.

Everyone talks about the four "C"s of choosing a diamond:
Cut
Colour
Clarity
and
Carat

There''s a fifth one (unless you''ve got a trust fund),
which is Cost.

Cost is, for most of us, probably a good place to start.
I looked at what I felt I could spend, comfortably.
I found it very easy to get excited about the idea of strecthing my budget more and more as I read stories of people with 3 and 4 carat diamonds, but, luckily, calmed down a bit and focused again on the big picture, which for me is an engagement ring, not a gallery piece.

There''s a lot of costs to take into consideration.
The diamond,
The ring,
insurance (you wouldn''t buy a car without insurance, and this one''s about on par with a new civic, so it''s a priority for me to have)

and don''t forget about proposing. . . I''ve read some elaborate stories where the proposal probably cost what the ring did.
You may not have a proposal worked out, but leave a little in your budget so you can put your masterpiece on a pedestal at least for her.
It''s the least you can do after all the work you''ve put into this.

After coming to a budget, I worked backwards.

It''s not easy. I quickly realized I could by a tiny diamond with phenomenal certificate numbers, or something more akin to a cubic Z aorund the size of a marble.

My decision, in the end?
Cut.

Cut, to me, came out as my top priority.

I come from a small family with not many traditions I know of, and in the back of my mind I liked the idea of finding a diamond that might be able to be passed down through generations. I''d heard of traditions where the Grandmother passes her ring onto a grandson. I know I''m thinking farily far ahead (haven''t even gotten her to say "yes" yet), but I like the idea.

So, cut as a priority, with carat and a balance of overall quality that will fit my budget.

I read a lot of the posts to come to this conclusion. I also read the tutorials on whiteflash and goodoldgold (excellent resources), as well as many others.

Once I learned more about the inner workings of a diamond I became a bit obsessed.

Square Two: Running the numbers.

Once you''ve taught yourself a bit about diamonds and cut/quality, I think it''s easy to become an accountant. We''re presented with all this data, and on the internet it''s really all we''ve got, so we start crunching numbers.
0.4% greater pavilion angle on one diamond, 0.01mm diameter smaller on another.
Table percentages.
Girdle thicknesses.
VVS1 vs VVS2

I became obsessed with the minutae.

Luckily, I''ve had some time to work on this and took a large breather.
When I settled down, and took my first trip to a shop to actually see some of these diamonds in person, one thing became blatantly clear. . .
A great cut diamond is a great cut diamond, and when I had three superideal cut diamonds with varying colour and sizes within a half a millimeter apart. . . they''re like identical triplets.
My conclusion is that a diamond is a beautiful piece of jewelry, and a great one sparkles like a discoball out of Saturday Night Fever, but in the end, it''s going on my girlfriend''s finger, not on a wall next to a certificate.
Yes, there are differences between diamonds, and some I could definitely see when pointed out or set next to test Cubic Z stones, but of the quality stones I saw, they all had a wonderful fire and brilliance which left me with a smile. Realizing that one diamond being a step different from another could still end up looking wonderful let me understand that there are many gorgeous diamonds out there, and with a decent amount of research, preparation, and caution, the likelihood of picking a complete lemon is pretty slim.
This might be different if you''re looking to purchase one for someone who really cares about the numbers and likes to compare stats with others.
For me, I just want the best looking diamond I can find. On her hand, whether we''re dancing salsa, having a dinner out, or strolling across the beach, 1.73 ct vs 2.0; VS2 vs VVS1; D colour vs H colour, it''s still going to be a fantastic sparkler and something I hope she can look at and smile.

That''s my motivation, and in the end what put my mind at ease.

Ultimately though, there is going to be a price attached to this project, and if there''s a good way to drop the price, I''m all for it, but I''ve realized that there is a lot of flexibility within the criteria I''m looking for, which is simply a great looking diamond.

I''ll talk about how I started my search for a diamond tomorrow.
I''ve got to be up for work in five hours. . . and it''s going to be a long day (wednesdays always are.)

 

[JohnQuixote]

What a great start.

And, you're beginning and ending in places with elite diamond resources: NY and Australia both have Pricescope dealers & contributors who know high quality... Look out, you're 'surrounded.' You may never escape the fascination.

 

[CaptainPolyester]

Starting a diamond search.

I tried the brick and mortar thing, but I''m new to manhattan and the diamond district can seem more like a street market than a comfortable business district for newbies.

In the end, I retreated home and decided to educate myself a bit before I tried again.
Pricescope has been a fantastic resource and one of the most complete resources I"ve come across.

After learning a bit more, I searched through the forums here and elsewhere, reading over the reviews of different vendors, and came across a solid list of potentials.

The ones that made me feel the most comfortable were those with a good reputation, and welll defined buying policies.
Finding a vendor that offers a good return period (most were ten to 30 days) was important.
As well, many offered lifetime upgrades, allowing you to move up to a more expensive product while crediting you the original cost of the diamond.
OThers also offer a guaranteed buyback at around 75% of the original cost.
It''s hopefully nothing I''d ever need, but should something happen where money becomes a crunch, at least I know I have a decent option to recoup some of my funds.

After that, I just started compiling lists.
Comparing prices,
working to understand why one similarly constructed diamond might be more or less than another.

In the end I came to a point where I felt I coud spot a reasonable deal without having to spend too much time researching the stats presented to me.


One thing I did have a question on is the proprietary superideal cuts people off.

Whiteflash has their "a cut above" diamonds.

Adiamor and bluenile have their "signature series"

SuperbCert has their "SuperbCert" super ideal cut.

The thing I"m a little stuck on is if there''s a big differenc in them.

They all seem to offer tighter and similar criteria on their Superideal diamonds, so, in my head, I''m beginning to wonder if I simply look for that cut grade, with color, clarity and symmetry/polish ratings within my criteria. . . am I getting basically a similar quality diamond?

Prices seem to vary form one company to another, as far as comparable diamonds.

Does anyone have some advice on these "superideal" cuts.

I''ve been sticking to a couple companies that I''ve been able to garner more information from, but am wondering if some of these other "superideal" cuts are equally worthy or their carbon?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No, the "signature series" often means it is an in-house H&A stone and that''s it. The quality varies a lot from what I have seen. If you know what you like on a cert and idealscope, then go by that and not a brand label. If you were in NY, I''d certainly take advantage of visiting Good Old Gold and see the stones in person. They have such a nice selection of stones. That way you can better learn what your preferences are.

 

[Rod]

Welcome Captain

Love your writing style

Given the knowledge you've amassed, it's likely you're going to put a stunning rock on your girls finger. And you're asking the right questions too. So many of us are so hung up on the "perfect" combination of angles, depth, table, etc. But, as you've mentioned, unless you're buying something to compare academically, they don't really mean that much in real life. What I had to ask myself was how does one decide how good is good enough? For me, it turned out good enough meant it was a beautiful stone, had lots of fire and scintillation, was graded by a reputable lab (mine was GIA) and was affordable, tradable and made me happy. My personal journey led me to a stone that is not Ideal, just Very Good. It has a larger table than some would like. It's not as deep as other's might want. But it's beautiful and I'm really proud to be wearing it.

Again, welcome to PS. We're glad to have you and looking forward to seeing how your journey goes in the pursuit of the right diamond for your girl.

Take care.

 

[ladykemma]

regarding moving to australia, how is your visa situation? will they allow you to enter, to stay and to work?

i had a friend who tried to do this and was turned away at the airport. not allowed to enter. when I lived in UK my visa said I could stay "as long as no access to public funds" but not allowed to work.

Please please please I assume you have done your homework as to whether you can enter the country AND STAY before you spend all this money on a ring.

signed, mom the nag

 

[CaptainPolyester]

No Worries, Lady K!

You''re definitely right, visas and immigration can be a tough spot to overcome.
Luckily, I''ve spent a good deal of time already talking with the australian government and looking into work.

I''m fortunate to work in a field that Australia seems to need pretty badly, so work shouldn''t take too much organizing.


but if it doesn''t work out, I''ll sell the ring,
break up with the girl,
move to Jamaica,
and try out for a red stripe commercial.
Always liked that beer.

My thanks to all your encouragement, and thanks to diamondseeker2006 as well.
I thought about what you said, regarding "signature" diamonds, and have taken a fresh look at diamond cuts and potentially idea diamonds that simply weren''t given the broker''s seal of approval yet.

Might have just opened up my list again!

 

[diamondlove]

hi CP,

Glad you have continued to post on PS! Did you ever take a look at the other stone (ES by WF) I was considering before we purchased the Superbcert one? I noticed that it has been sold so I guess you weren''t the one who snatched it up. Your approach sounds really similar to my bf''s and I guess you guys also have similar taste in diamonds if you almost purchased ours.

Good luck with this search and hopefully I can be of help at some point. I''m quite jealous that you are located in NYC and will be in Australia. I LOVE NYC and the bf and I are trying to fit a visit to Australia and New Zealand sometime this upcoming year.


DL

 

[CaptainPolyester]

Hey!

Great to hear from you!

How''d the diamond work out?

Yeah, I decided to hold off for a little bit and do some more research before picking up a diamond.
I''ve got a few months before I''m going to propose, so I''ve got time on my side.

Once I noticed different places offering these "signature" series diamonds, I sort of shut off my thinking and figured that it was sort of a "no brainer," in that buying one of these must automatically mean the best quality diamond.
While I''m sure they all are fantastic diamonds, I''ve started to understand that there can be equal or even better diamonds out there that aren''t under this "signature" umbrella offered by some brokers.
I may still end up with one of these, but am more critically looking at other diamonds that are out there now.

NYC, btw, is fantastic.
I''ve only been here a little bit, but love it so far. . .
as long as you don''t mind living in an apartment smaller than some people''s closets.

 

[belle]

it sounds like you are on the right track cp. take your time and learn as much as you can. knowledge is a powerful tool.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here is the basic trade-off. Many vendors list the same diamonds which are located with a wholesaler. Most vendors can only stock a limited number of diamonds in-house. So those diamonds are not going to be listed as signature. You will see different prices for the same diamond from different vendors. However, the amount of services vary a lot. At some vendors, you'll have a copy of the cert and nothing else. Some will add an ideal scope of the diamond so you can see optical symmetry. Then others may offer sarin and helium scans, color analysis, and brillance scopes. You'll pay a little more for the greater services, but it all depends on your comfort level in selecting a stone and whether you require more than the cert to make a decision. To me, it does help to have the extra information since I cannot easily view the diamonds themselves. On the other hand, I think it would be hard to go wrong with a stone that falls within the AGS0 category for the vast majority of us, as long as you know the color and clarity you like! You will need to narrow down your color and clarity range a bit as it is very wide at this point. I probably would aim for the middle of yoru range as I wouldn't want to pay for a D-E, IF-VVS1 and I also probably wouldn't go with an I SI1 either (but the I would be more affordable for sure than the D-E!).

 

[CaptainPolyester]

Good point.
I know the range I''m looking for looks large, but in reality I''ll probably end up with a g-h colour diamond.
I say my range is D-I, with a clarity of IF-SI1, but I highly doubt I"ll be picking up an IF, D graded diamond.

You mentioned something I''ve been pondering lately. . .
how do I find one diamond at multiple places?
Do I simply have to look at the serial number and if I happen to see it at one place and then anohter. . . that''s how I know?
Or is there a way to search for a specific diamond at multiple vendors?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If you do a search on PriceScope (at the top of this page) as an example, and check search-all and not in-house, you''ll sometimes see the same diamond listed by several vendors and you''ll know because all the stats will be exactly the same. Sometimes I can tell by comparing the stats on diamonds listed on various vendors sites or seeing that the certs are the same. It really is easier for me to stick with in-house stones since they can tell you more about them. It does cost money to have the vendor bring in a stone to look at for you, so consider that as well.