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Spotting the best of 3 diamonds, help appreciated

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
17
Hello,

I've been reading these forums for the last week and have found a lot of useful information.

I have now found 3 diamonds around $24,000 USD for 2.5carat

The sales person / expert is recommending the one with the worst HCA so not sure if I should follow their advice

I have put all the diamond details below. They are all eye clean. If anyone can give me some impartial advice as to the best, that would be great.


HCA 1.8
diamond_2361787.png

HCA 2.0
diamond_2337052.png

HCA 1.2
diamond_1922069_0.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Which one has the worst HCA? The HCA is a binary tool. Any stone scoring 2 or below is worth a further look. Can you get idealscopes or asets for these stones? Just from the pictures the center stone looks to be the nicest.

FYI...under 2 is worth further look. 1.2 not better (or worst ) than 1.5 or 1.8 or 2.0. Aset or idealscope needed at this point to show if one might be better or not.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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There is no way that #3 has a crown angle of 41.6. Must be a listing error?
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2016
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sorry the last one is 40.6 not 41.6!!

well spotted :)

so from what I understand now is I need an ideal scope image for all 3

and then select the one with the best idealscope?

thank you
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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thrill_of_the_hill|1483116732|4110757 said:
sorry the last one is 40.6 not 41.6!!

well spotted :)

so from what I understand now is I need an ideal scope image for all 3

and then select the one with the best idealscope?

thank you
That's a big difference! I wouldn't eliminate it then but I'd still ask which of the 5 they could get idealscopes on....they will provide you with 3 images as long as they have the stone in house.
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
17
This is the idealscope for the first diamond

diamond_1_1.png

will need to wait a few days for the other 2

does that look any good though?
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
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ac117|1483114354|4110741 said:
I would eliminate the third one bc the pavilion angle is too high at 41.6...we recommend 41 at the most and only with a complimentary shallower crown angle.

I agree with tyty, could they provide ideal scope images for the stones?

I had a quick look and also like these 2:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.60-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2360484
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.60-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2211864

These 2 look great too! Thank you :)
I will ask for the idealscope for these as well
Would they be eye clean at SI1? cheers
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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The image looks nice - let's compare once the others come in.

I'm pretty sure that SI1 would be eye clean since the inclusions look light and off to the side and I think the most noticeable inclusions at 8 o'clock could be hidden by a prong. I would ask JA to evaluate the stone and tell you how eye clean it is (at what angle and distance) and if there are any transparency issues.
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2016
Messages
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I just spoke to JA and they have a promotion if I spend $30,000 they will give $2000 off towards the ring

So instead of spending up to $25,000 USD plus $2000 on a ring ($27,000) I am considering spending $30,000 on a better diamond with the ring included.

Do you think I could get a decent 3 carat for this? otherwise i may as well stick to the 2.5 region!
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
17
Thanks

I put the budget up to $32k and it looks like the best one still, VS2 and better. Not sure I am skilled enough to spot an eye clean SI1.

Ive asked for this idealscope too.
Many thanks for everyone's help so far.
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
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tyty333|1483123356|4110793 said:
This is all I could find in the 3 carat range and its at the top. What setting were you looking at?
Its a VS2 but need to ask how eye-clean it is/isnt.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/3.36-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2336883
I have the idealscope for this one...
Apparantly it was tilted when the image was taken. It's not in the shop to retake but I was told it would be a very good image if it was done correctly. Is this correct?
2336883id-1.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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2,546
thrill_of_the_hill|1483144331|4110916 said:
tyty333|1483123356|4110793 said:
This is all I could find in the 3 carat range and its at the top. What setting were you looking at?
Its a VS2 but need to ask how eye-clean it is/isnt.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/3.36-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2336883
I have the idealscope for this one...
Apparantly it was tilted when the image was taken. It's not in the shop to retake but I was told it would be a very good image if it was done correctly. Is this correct?
2336883id-1.jpg
I am afraid JA might be wrong on this one. The tilt is not all that significant in this case. The white leakage and undefined arrows are likely from 41.0 pav angle , which can be as high as 41.09, and which is the average of 8 pav angles (some can be significantly higher than 41.0)

Very common of 34.5/41. Not good enough
 

EvaEvans

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
462
I wouldn't pick up a diamond with crystal inclusion right under the center of the table! A wealthy $30000 budget could be better spent.
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
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thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
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EvaEvans|1483168145|4110998 said:
I wouldn't pick up a diamond with crystal inclusion right under the center of the table! A wealthy $30000 budget could be better spent.
Okay so maybe exclude that diamond then...

JA said it wouldn't be visible to the eye and wont effect brilliance before i requested the idealscope image but perhaps they were just wanting to make a sale?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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56,281
I don't care for the 3 ct JA diamond. With your budget, I would look more places. I listed stones for someone else with a similar budget. Whiteflash has several with outstanding cut, better than any of those you listed. They provide ASET and idealscope to show the light performance.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3770050.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3751763.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3737016.htm
 

Passion4diamonds

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thrill_of_the_hill|1483169486|4111002 said:
SparkleLady|1483153931|4110953 said:
This has the best images I have seen so far! Very nice diamond indeed. How come its so good when pav angle is 41 and Crown angle is 33.4 - both seem at the top ends of the limits as well as table at 59%.
Others can chime in...This is what diamond experts call a 60/60 diamond where depth and table are both close or at 60%. 60/60 diamonds tend to favor lots of white sparkle and brilliance and less fire. It's a matter of personal preference but this diamond looks like it will be super white with some major sparkle and since it's an Ideal cut it's worth looking into this stone!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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22,683
diamondseeker2006|1483194737|4111039 said:
I don't care for the 3 ct JA diamond. With your budget, I would look more places. I listed stones for someone else with a similar budget. Whiteflash has several with outstanding cut, better than any of those you listed. They provide ASET and idealscope to show the light performance.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3770050.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3751763.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3737016.htm

That last stone hits the 9mm mark...great size and a gorgeous stone!
 

EvaEvans

Shiny_Rock
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462
I would definitely look for VS1 clarity or better VVS2. I have seen even SI2 so called "eye clean" diamonds, the "eye clean" does not change the fact that there is too many or badly located inclusions. I would not choose a diamond with inclusions right under the table. In fact, I had a VS2 diamond with a feather in the center that I could see when the diamond was tilted at 5-10 degrees. Also, eye clean for someone could not be eye clean for me.
There are plenty of excellent cut diamonds, but much less high quality diamond crystals. I would stick to the diamond quality, and choose slightly smaller carat size but higher quality.
Diamond color could be also something to consider, but for me, I can spot the difference between, for example, E and H, but I cannot distinguish I from J color. So, in my opinion, everything above J color is OK, unless you are aiming the icy white group of the top 3 colors.
So, my advice is to choose excellent cut diamond with J color or better, VS1 clarity or better, and avoid inclusions in the center (table to be clean, inclusions to be on the periphery).
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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There's no doubt that preferences vary, but I would not rule out VS2 because most are totally eyeclean. My round diamond is VS1, but my antique asssher is SI1 and 100% eyeclean with no feathers or bad inclusions. I normally don't do SI1 but that was a pretty rare stone. But in modern rounds, VS2 is usually fine, and Whiteflash is going to be 100% honest in telling you how eyeclean.
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
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tyty333|1483207720|4111097 said:
Thank you for those links.
I'm considering buying the last one at 9mm - the ASET and ideal scope images look fantastic.

I always thought the hearts and arrows or cut above or signature ranges were over priced? After reading lots of online reviews apparantly you pay a premium for these diamonds?

I've been trying to buy one with nearly as good a cut but slightly better quality in terms of colour clarity. Is this personal preference or is it better to go with the best cut?
Happy new year everyone!! Thank you for your advice
 

Snowdrop13

Ideal_Rock
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thrill_of_the_hill|1483261519|4111288 said:
If J looks the same as I colour which EvaEvans mentions above, and if VS2 is nearly always eye clean as diamondseeker2006 states... Couldn't I go for a 3 carat below and still have the best cut? Or is smaller diamond at H/I better

Thanks from the UK :)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3686856.htm
Have you seen "J" coloured diamonds in real life? You might find you see a tint at that level in this size of stone. It's very difficult buying online from the UK, been there myself! I like the 2.7 I VS2 too. You do pay a premium for the super ideal cuts but you at least have the peace of mind that you're getting a fantastic stone.

PS I see you upped the budget from your original one, don't forget that you will have to pay at least 20% extra when VAT and duties are added on...........
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
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Snowdrop13|1483264830|4111294 said:
Have you seen "J" coloured diamonds in real life? You might find you see a tint at that level in this size of stone. It's very difficult buying online from the UK, been there myself! I like the 2.7 I VS2 too. You do pay a premium for the super ideal cuts but you at least have the peace of mind that you're getting a fantastic stone.

PS I see you upped the budget from your original one, don't forget that you will have to pay at least 20% extra when VAT and duties are added on...........
Not seen one in J in real life, I've not seen many diamonds in real life to be honest! Did some further research online, J at 3 carat may show some faint yellow as you pointed out. I will ask Whiteflash what they think as it is one they have in store. If it does I will go with the 2.7 carat diamond. Thank you!!
 

EvaEvans

Shiny_Rock
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I have J color diamond studs Ideal cut and they are just fine! I would go with the 3ct stone. It is always better to say "I have a 3ct diamond on my finger!" :D
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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I wouldn't go lower than an I color for an engagement ring unless your intended has seen a J and is fine with it. I feel that MRB's show more color and a J is noticeably warm. Size is great but the 2.7 I stone is already bigger than what you originally intended and is a great, safer balance of specs IMO.
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
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Hello everyone,

I purchased a diamond after reading advice on the forum (see above)

It was the diamond someone recommended above

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3737016.htm

I had it taken to an independent gemmologist as it would sometimes appear very grey and not as white as I would have liked.

The chap I took it to has been grading, assessing and valuing diamonds for 40 years
http://www.ja-world.com/uk/huddy-valuations.html

He said he had never seen one like it - it would appear I colour under bright light or from the sides/upside down and then appear grey/black like a P shade from above in day light. He then contacted one of the top UK diamond experts (http://www.dmmhosting.co.uk/cv/taylorandco.pdf) and i still have no idea what is going on. I was told to return it and get a refund if I could as it appears grey not white like I colour should. How come it changes colour?? The independent experts confirmed everything was as stated on the AGS certificate - except the colour change to grey was not mentioned and they said it should have been as it changes between 4 - 6 shades.

Any suggestions?? I am very upset its not always white :(
 

thrill_of_the_hill

Rough_Rock
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Dec 30, 2016
Messages
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I took 2 photo's just now...so a slight change in lighting and it sometimes looks white sometimes grey/purple/black but in the photo's it comes out a more greeny colour.
They said it was more like a P shade than an I shade. Is AGS unreliable?? They said GIA would have been better and not had this problem.

change in colour with change in light.jpg
 
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