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Some Preparation For The Vice-Presidential Debates

AGBF

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I have been assuming that tonight's debate will be civil. However, as "The New York Times" said, "Keep an eye out for the truth gap at tonight’s vice-presidential debate. Mike Pence, the Republican governor of Indiana, is a likable, often sunny conservative, according to those who know him. He is the kind of politician who could make the real conservative arguments I wish we heard more often.

Instead, he is prone to falsehoods.

He’s called Trump’s back-and-forth immigration positions “completely consistent.” He claimed that raising income taxes reduced federal revenue. He said that President Obama’s health law would 'deprive roughly 120 million Americans of their current health care coverage.' And Pence lied about Hillary Clinton’s actions during the Benghazi attacks.

No politician is perfectly honest – including Tim Kaine, Pence’s opponent tonight. But Pence and his party have earned an extra degree of skepticism. When he says something, you should check it out."

I was glad to have this warning in advance. I will, now, watch for Mike Pence's lies. Especially about Benghazi.

Article...http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/opinion/campaign-stops/will-mike-pence-tell-the-truth.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

Link to source on Benghazi (fact check)...http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/21/mike-pence/mike-pences-false-claim-about-clintons-role-and-re/

AGBF
 

sonnyjane

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No need to even watch. 3 hours before the debate even started, GOP.com posted that Pence has won and even gave some highlights! They can tell the future!!! They took it down from the site after being tipped off, but the internet is forever :) img_7039_1.jpg
 

ksinger

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sonnyjane|1475626587|4083702 said:
No need to even watch. 3 hours before the debate even started, GOP.com posted that Pence has won and even gave some highlights! They can tell the future!!! They took it down from the site after being tipped off, but the internet is forever :) img_7039_1.jpg
I know it's been a long time since Trump knocked out the passel 'o primary candidates, so I guess the GOP clown car was just begging to be taken out by somebody. In this case, the "journalists" at GOP.com.
 

AGBF

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At first I wasn't wild about the interrupting done by Kaine, and I do wish he had toned it down a bit, but I am glad he he didn't let Pence talk too much. After thinking about the alternative-letting Pence do a Trump (spreading his lies by talking non-stop and always spreading falsehoods whenever he opened his mouth)-I would rather see Kaine look bad than be silenced.

Kaine was correct on everything he said. He was correct on Crimea and Ukraine and every detail that Pence made faces about, as if no one could possible be stupid enough not to know what Kaine alleged. Trump did NOT know that Russia had invaded Ukraine and it is on tape. But Pence is a very good liar. Kaine was right, but looked bad (at some points). Pence was a liar, but looked good.

Pence is not stupid. I'll give him that. But Kaine is a hell of a lot brighter. And more truthful. And more compassionate.

AGBF
 

E B

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Dancing Fire

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AGBF|1475678065|4083844 said:
Kaine was correct on everything he said. He was correct on Crimea and Ukraine and every detail that Pence made faces about, as if no one could possible be stupid enough not to know what Kaine alleged. Trump did NOT know that Russia had invaded Ukraine and it is on tape. But Pence is a very good liar. Kaine was right, but looked bad (at some points). Pence was a liar, but looked good.

AGBF
Even better than HC???... :bigsmile: I didn't watch the debate b/c I was at a concert.
 

lovedogs

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My take is the the Dems wanted Kaine to be "strong/aggressive" out of the gate in order to land as many attacks/catch Pence in as many lies (in terms of defending Trump) as possible. Although he achieved that nicely, I still think (and have been reading similar opinions) that he didn't come off well because of too many interruptions and talking over Pence. Pence was much more composed, calm, collected, but blatantly denied essentially everything Trump has said for the last year.

I'm not sure where I read this, but some article (maybe NYT, CNN) put it nicely when they said: If you were judging the debate based on demeanor and attitude then Pence won, but if you actually listened to what they said then Kaine was the clear winner.

So although I think Kaine did well in terms of forcing Pence to either defend or lie about Trump (which clearly he did the latter), I wish he could have done it in a way that didn't make him appear so aggressive/overly amped-up, etc.
 

ksinger

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lovedogs|1475685943|4083875 said:
My take is the the Dems wanted Kaine to be "strong/aggressive" out of the gate in order to land as many attacks/catch Pence in as many lies (in terms of defending Trump) as possible. Although he achieved that nicely, I still think (and have been reading similar opinions) that he didn't come off well because of too many interruptions and talking over Pence. Pence was much more composed, calm, collected, but blatantly denied essentially everything Trump has said for the last year.

I'm not sure where I read this, but some article (maybe NYT, CNN) put it nicely when they said: If you were judging the debate based on demeanor and attitude then Pence won, but if you actually listened to what they said then Kaine was the clear winner.

So although I think Kaine did well in terms of forcing Pence to either defend or lie about Trump (which clearly he did the latter), I wish he could have done it in a way that didn't make him appear so aggressive/overly amped-up, etc.
My husband's assessment of the two of them was a demented elf and a Nazi. Our sound also kept cutting out, which helped.
 

lovedogs

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ksinger|1475686777|4083882 said:
lovedogs|1475685943|4083875 said:
My take is the the Dems wanted Kaine to be "strong/aggressive" out of the gate in order to land as many attacks/catch Pence in as many lies (in terms of defending Trump) as possible. Although he achieved that nicely, I still think (and have been reading similar opinions) that he didn't come off well because of too many interruptions and talking over Pence. Pence was much more composed, calm, collected, but blatantly denied essentially everything Trump has said for the last year.

I'm not sure where I read this, but some article (maybe NYT, CNN) put it nicely when they said: If you were judging the debate based on demeanor and attitude then Pence won, but if you actually listened to what they said then Kaine was the clear winner.

So although I think Kaine did well in terms of forcing Pence to either defend or lie about Trump (which clearly he did the latter), I wish he could have done it in a way that didn't make him appear so aggressive/overly amped-up, etc.
My husband's assessment of the two of them was a demented elf and a Nazi. Our sound also kept cutting out, which helped.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

distracts

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AGBF|1475625598|4083696 said:
as "The New York Times" said, "Keep an eye out for the truth gap at tonight’s vice-presidential debate. Mike Pence, the Republican governor of Indiana, is a likable, often sunny conservative, according to those who know him
Laughing at characterizing him as "sunny." He was so dour and such a negative nancy in the debate. If he'd even smiled once, I probably would have liked him a lot more.

lovedogs|1475685943|4083875 said:
I'm not sure where I read this, but some article (maybe NYT, CNN) put it nicely when they said: If you were judging the debate based on demeanor and attitude then Pence won, but if you actually listened to what they said then Kaine was the clear winner.
I keep seeing that but all I saw from Pence was a lot of negativity and I didn't like it. I like politicians to be positive, or at least neutral, not like "woe is me, all is hopeless, hello death." :knockout:

ksinger|1475686777|4083882 said:
My husband's assessment of the two of them was a demented elf and a Nazi. Our sound also kept cutting out, which helped.
:lol: :lol:
 

AGBF

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ksinger|1475686777|4083882 said:
lovedogs|1475685943|4083875 said:
My take is the the Dems wanted Kaine to be "strong/aggressive" out of the gate in order to land as many attacks/catch Pence in as many lies (in terms of defending Trump) as possible. Although he achieved that nicely, I still think (and have been reading similar opinions) that he didn't come off well because of too many interruptions and talking over Pence. Pence was much more composed, calm, collected, but blatantly denied essentially everything Trump has said for the last year.

I'm not sure where I read this, but some article (maybe NYT, CNN) put it nicely when they said: If you were judging the debate based on demeanor and attitude then Pence won, but if you actually listened to what they said then Kaine was the clear winner.

So although I think Kaine did well in terms of forcing Pence to either defend or lie about Trump (which clearly he did the latter), I wish he could have done it in a way that didn't make him appear so aggressive/overly amped-up, etc.

My husband's assessment of the two of them was a demented elf and a Nazi.
Pence would only have appeared to be a Nazi if you knew his record. He didn't really say anything very Nazi-ish, unless you count "law and order", which is, of course, a dog whistle. I had to share that I would really like to meet your husband one day, ksinger. He sounds a bit like my husband and my best friend's husband. (The latter has me in fits of giggles from time to time.) When I thought about the description, " a demented elf", I found myself shaking with silent laughter here. (So, no, it wasn't actually laughing out loud.) But I kept going off into more rounds of laughter. And at my candidate. The description is really perfect. I noticed that in reality he is taller than Pence, but he looks like a freckled, redheaded, elf.

Deb :wavey:
 

Dancing Fire

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Dems will never admit that Kaine got his butt kicked by Pence... :bigsmile:
 

ksinger

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AGBF|1475694960|4083918 said:
ksinger|1475686777|4083882 said:
lovedogs|1475685943|4083875 said:
My take is the the Dems wanted Kaine to be "strong/aggressive" out of the gate in order to land as many attacks/catch Pence in as many lies (in terms of defending Trump) as possible. Although he achieved that nicely, I still think (and have been reading similar opinions) that he didn't come off well because of too many interruptions and talking over Pence. Pence was much more composed, calm, collected, but blatantly denied essentially everything Trump has said for the last year.

I'm not sure where I read this, but some article (maybe NYT, CNN) put it nicely when they said: If you were judging the debate based on demeanor and attitude then Pence won, but if you actually listened to what they said then Kaine was the clear winner.

So although I think Kaine did well in terms of forcing Pence to either defend or lie about Trump (which clearly he did the latter), I wish he could have done it in a way that didn't make him appear so aggressive/overly amped-up, etc.

My husband's assessment of the two of them was a demented elf and a Nazi.
Pence would only have appeared to be a Nazi if you knew his record. He didn't really say anything very Nazi-ish, unless you count "law and order", which is, of course, a dog whistle. I had to share that I would really like to meet your husband one day, ksinger. He sounds a bit like my husband and my best friend's husband. (The latter has me in fits of giggles from time to time.) When I thought about the description, " a demented elf", I found myself shaking with silent laughter here. (So, no, it wasn't actually laughing out loud.) But I kept going off into more rounds of laughter. And at my candidate. The description is really perfect. I noticed that in reality he is taller than Pence, but he looks like a freckled, redheaded, elf.

Deb :wavey:
I think you'd like him Deb. He has a deeper voice, with a hint of harshness to it, and an Oklahoma cadence that just screams rural, even though he's not. He's often quiet until he lets fly a true zinger that seems to come out of the blue, but doesn't because he's been processing the whole time. He collects funny and unique phrases, and has a mental catalog I think. After all these years, he still cracks me up. :)
 

the_mother_thing

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Dancing Fire|1475711944|4084010 said:
Dems will never admit that Kaine got his butt kicked by Pence... :bigsmile:
BINGO! Even CNN gave it to Pence ... CNN! :o

As someone who thinks quite lowly of both Clinton & Trump, if I had to base my vote on the Veep picks, Pence earned it hands down. Kaine was - in that debate - EVERYTHING I despise about Trump, not to mention what many here have dogged Trump for. He was arrogant, disrespectful, ill-tempered, impatient...the list goes on. Pence was respectful, honest, even-keeled, and reflected in his concerns the same things I see as needing attention in our country; he isn't trying to sell me a crap sandwich covered in sprinkles to soften the blow to my "wittle feelings".

So, we have a Clinton/Trump-wannabe on one hand, and Trump/Pence on the other ... a double whammy or a single whammy. Crappy choices, but I would rather only take one bite of liver vs two. :sick:
 

AGBF

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JoCoJenn|1475755124|4084083 said:
Dancing Fire|1475711944|4084010 said:
Dems will never admit that Kaine got his butt kicked by Pence... :bigsmile:
BINGO! Even CNN gave it to Pence ... CNN! :o

As someone who thinks quite lowly of both Clinton & Trump, if I had to base my vote on the Veep picks, Pence earned it hands down. Kaine was - in that debate - EVERYTHING I despise about Trump, not to mention what many here have dogged Trump for. He was arrogant, disrespectful, ill-tempered, impatient...the list goes on. Pence was respectful, honest, even-keeled, and reflected in his concerns the same things I see as needing attention in our country; he isn't trying to sell me a crap sandwich covered in sprinkles to soften the blow to my "wittle feelings".

So, we have a Clinton/Trump-wannabe on one hand, and Trump/Pence on the other ... a double whammy or a single whammy. Crappy choices, but I would rather only take one bite of liver vs two. :sick:
The problem with Pence was that the substance of what he said was not as good as the presentation. Kaine's material stood up to fact checking. Pence's material did not. The GOP resorted to counting the number of times Kaine interrupted because he didn't lie or make errors. Pence is a hollow vessel. He looks good on the outside, but there's really nothing inside...at least nothing good. Fact checking on Kaine proved he was right on everything.

Let's go to the videotape! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13TF9lgPxYA
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

I watched a bit of the debate without the sound. I was surprised to see how well Mike Pence carried on, while Kaine looked frantic. He also looked nervous Yes, I think Mike Pence won, hands down.

Lying has become an accepted behavior in and out of politics. It just doesn't matter to people anymore.

It does go to show you that appearance, however superficial, does matter, although many on PS think otherwise.

Annette
 

AGBF

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smitcompton|1475769232|4084165 said:
Hi,

I watched a bit of the debate without the sound. I was surprised to see how well Mike Pence carried on, while Kaine looked frantic. He also looked nervous Yes, I think Mike Pence won, hands down.

Lying has become an accepted behavior in and out of politics. It just doesn't matter to people anymore.

It does go to show you that appearance, however superficial, does matter, although many on PS think otherwise.

Annette

Annette,

I respectfully ask you to click on the link I provided and listen to what the candidates say. I think you may see things from a different point of view with the sound on. Or perhaps I am mixing metaphors. ;))

Deb :wavey:
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

I don't listen to the debates because I really do get upset. But, I do listen to the analysis after the fact, usually on MSNBC. So, I do get the important clips on the debate and I do realize that Mike Pence just denied what Trump has said, or disagreed with Trumps
policies. I get that Kaine had substance in what he said, but Pence just stated ordinary Republican stands on issues.

I think Pence won even if he lied and lied.
.
Annette
 

AGBF

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smitcompton|1475774444|4084205 said:
Hi,

I don't listen to the debates because I really do get upset. But, I do listen to the analysis after the fact, usually on MSNBC. So, I do get the important clips on the debate and I do realize that Mike Pence just denied what Trump has said, or disagreed with Trumps
policies. I get that Kaine had substance in what he said, but Pence just stated ordinary Republican stands on issues.

I think Pence won even if he lied and lied.
.
Annette
I really do not know what to say to someone who will not listen to a debate, but who is still determined to call a winner.

Deb
 
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