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Small stones and Clarity/Cut

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rnbwsktles

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I''m trying to help my friend gather ideas to give to her SO for an engagement ring. She really does not want him to spend more than $1000. I''ve been looking around and .25-.5 ct seems to the size range, with the smaller stones going with nicer settings and vice versa.

My question is, how small can a diamond get before clarity and cut quality stop mattering as much? I''ve tried to tell her that places like zales sell poor quality diamonds, but she really likes some of their rings. A lot of their diamonds are in the I1 and I2 range. Can you even see inclusions on a .3 stone with the naked eye?

I have a ring from Gordon''s Jewelers that was a gift a year ago. It''s something like 1/4 ctw with 4 princesses making up a larger "princess" in the middle, and 3 RBs on each side. I have no idea what the specs are in those diamonds (crap, im sure) but they sparkle in the right light and there''s no way i''d be able to see an inclusion in them.

I guess my point is, if she goes for a diamond in the .25-.35 range, is it worth trying to convince her to pay a little extra for a good clarity, well cut diamond?
 
Date: 12/16/2008 3:25:10 PM
Author:rnbwsktles
I'm trying to help my friend gather ideas to give to her SO for an engagement ring. She really does not want him to spend more than $1000. I've been looking around and .25-.5 ct seems to the size range, with the smaller stones going with nicer settings and vice versa.

My question is, how small can a diamond get before clarity and cut quality stop mattering as much? I've tried to tell her that places like zales sell poor quality diamonds, but she really likes some of their rings. A lot of their diamonds are in the I1 and I2 range. Can you even see inclusions on a .3 stone with the naked eye?

I have a ring from Gordon's Jewelers that was a gift a year ago. It's something like 1/4 ctw with 4 princesses making up a larger 'princess' in the middle, and 3 RBs on each side. I have no idea what the specs are in those diamonds (crap, im sure) but they sparkle in the right light and there's no way i'd be able to see an inclusion in them.

I guess my point is, if she goes for a diamond in the .25-.35 range, is it worth trying to convince her to pay a little extra for a good clarity, well cut diamond?
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Well in these sizes you probably won't be able to see much in the way of inclusions as you say, and individual eyesights vary!!! So what I would suggest is shoot for a great cut and look at GIA or AGS graded SI2 clarity and I or J colour to get the most bang for the buck. A great cut is always worth concentrating on, colour and clarity...Some feel as long as the diamond is eyeclean that SI clarity and I or J colour is fine as with a great cut they still have a pretty diamond.

One thing you could suggest is if she is shopping online, check out www.winkjones.com as Wink sometimes has Cut by Infinity diamonds in eyeclean to eyecleanish I1 clarity and lower colours which could definitely be an option.
 
Date: 12/16/2008 3:27:53 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 12/16/2008 3:25:10 PM

Well in these sizes you probably won't be able to see much in the way of inclusions as you say, and individual eyesights vary!!! So what I would suggest is shoot for a great cut and look at GIA or AGS graded SI2 clarity and I or J colour to get the most bang for the buck. A great cut is always worth concentrating on, colour and clarity...Some feel as long as the diamond is eyeclean that SI clarity and I or J colour is fine as with a great cut they still have a pretty diamond.


One thing you could suggest is if she is shopping online, check out www.winkjones.com as Wink sometimes has Cut by Infinity diamonds in eyeclean to eyecleanish I1 clarity and lower colours which could definitely be an option.
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Thanks, I looked at his site and there was only one diamond under $1000 and it was uncertified. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.

She likes rounds and princess cuts, but I've been finding that princesses are more expensive, is this generally true? I wanted to introduce her to asscher, but that seems even more expensive.

There was a ring she saw on the zales website months ago that was really gorgeous. It was sort of a rolling design, with pave on one band and solid white gold on the other. The diamond in the middle was only 1/6 ct, but I thought I might be able to ask WF to have a bigger one put in it. Of course, now the ring is gone!
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I keep editing my other post to get my response out of the quotes, but it keeps putting it back!
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I have a set of tiny studs (.2-.25 tcw) from Kay and I can clearly see a big fat carbon in one of them. No one else would notice on my ear, but it would be fairly obvious in a ring.

It isn't that you can't get a nice ring at a vendor like Kay or Zales, it's that it isn't necessarily a good value and it's difficult to see what you're actually getting. Many/most of their stones are steep/deep cuts that look small for their weight and also may not be accurately graded.

Would they consider an estate piece? There are nice, ornate, smallish rings to be had in that category as well, like this one.
 
Date: 12/16/2008 4:06:07 PM
Author: swingirl
Here is .41ct with a little left over for a simple setting.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5307/


Or this .40.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1148670.htm


WF setting in white gold
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Thanks. I did suggest that setting to her as it is one of the cheapest. It''s a beautifully simple setting, but I feel that small stones are lonely on them.

She only wants to drop hints to her SO, since he is big on surprises and would be disappointed if they actually picked it out together. He is definitely someone who will put himself in debt to buy a nice ring, so who knows what he could actually pick for her. However, she''s hoping to show him that she will be happy with something in this price range.
 
Date: 12/16/2008 4:16:10 PM
Author: mercoledi
I have a set of tiny studs (.2-.25 tcw) from Kay and I can clearly see a big fat carbon in one of them. No one else would notice on my ear, but it would be fairly obvious in a ring.


It isn''t that you can''t get a nice ring at a vendor like Kay or Zales, it''s that it isn''t necessarily a good value and it''s difficult to see what you''re actually getting. Many/most of their stones are steep/deep cuts that look small for their weight and also may not be accurately graded.


Would they consider an estate piece? There are nice, ornate, smallish rings to be had in that category as well, like this one.
Click to expand...

I''d love to show her all sorts of options, although she definitely is not into yellow gold. I showed this to her as a joke and I think she may actually consider. http://cgi.ebay.com/2-00-CARAT-PRINCESS-CUT-CREATED-DIAMOND-ENGAGEMENT-RING_W0QQitemZ110326215080QQihZ001QQcategoryZ152899QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
Just so you know, diamond sims are not allowed in this part of the forum. How about something like this? It's a smidge over budget.

ETA: Another option is old cut stones and a simple solitaire.
 
Date: 12/16/2008 4:21:20 PM
Author: mercoledi
Just so you know, diamond sims are not allowed in this part of the forum. How about something like this? It''s a smidge over budget.
Click to expand...
PRETTY!!
 
Date: 12/16/2008 3:25:10 PM
Author:rnbwsktles
I''m trying to help my friend gather ideas to give to her SO for an engagement ring. She really does not want him to spend more than $1000. I''ve been looking around and .25-.5 ct seems to the size range, with the smaller stones going with nicer settings and vice versa.

My question is, how small can a diamond get before clarity and cut quality stop mattering as much? I''ve tried to tell her that places like zales sell poor quality diamonds, but she really likes some of their rings. A lot of their diamonds are in the I1 and I2 range. Can you even see inclusions on a .3 stone with the naked eye?

I have a ring from Gordon''s Jewelers that was a gift a year ago. It''s something like 1/4 ctw with 4 princesses making up a larger ''princess'' in the middle, and 3 RBs on each side. I have no idea what the specs are in those diamonds (crap, im sure) but they sparkle in the right light and there''s no way i''d be able to see an inclusion in them.

I guess my point is, if she goes for a diamond in the .25-.35 range, is it worth trying to convince her to pay a little extra for a good clarity, well cut diamond?
Click to expand...
You absolutely can! My boyfriend, back in high school bought me a .06ct promise ring for our 2 year anniversary from Helzberg and I can see the inclusion--it is quite large for how tiny the diamond is. I never noticed the inclusion until about 9 months ago. When I started shopping for my engagement ring, I began learning about inclusions and the 4Cs--so that''s when I decided to take a good hard look at my tiny diamond--and yup!!!--an INCLUSION!!! I love the ring anyways for what it symbolizes. I have been wearing it proudly for 5 years now, and I still love it--inclusion and all. My point is--you will be able to see inclusions in even a .30 stone. I would never want an inclusion as noticeable and the size as the one in my promise ring diamond in my engagment ring stone. So as others have said: an SI2 (eye-clean), H-J color, ideal cut would be what I would be looking for.

GOOD LUCK with helping you friend!!!
 
Date: 12/16/2008 4:21:20 PM
Author: mercoledi
Just so you know, diamond sims are not allowed in this part of the forum. How about something like this? It''s a smidge over budget.


ETA: Another option is old cut stones and a simple solitaire.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the sim post! Wasn''t even thinking when I did that.

I love that ring! I''m going to send that to her right now! Thanks!
 
Glad you like it! Their stones aren't ideal cut either, just so you know.

Could you teach your friend/her future fiance how to use an idealscope to evaluate the stones/rings that they're looking at? It would help them/him make a more informed decision.
 
Yes, you can definitely see inclusions on stones .3 ct... I had a .33 ct diamond ring, and you could see a little black fleck in it. I have seen .25 ct and smaller where you could clearly see black specks, or cloudy parts. Also, the quality of cut on those stones will be pretty poor (the crappy stock stones from the maul jewelers) so it probably won''t sparkle very much. Cut and clarity are still important in small stones!!!!!
 
I''m not sure if anyone has said this already...but cut, cut, cut. In a small diamond, cut is going to be key.

I love the idea of going with an old cut stone/setting, btw - I wish it was something we would have considered when buying my stone.
 
I wore a badly cut .20ish ct diamond for years, no idea the clarity/color, but you could definitely see inclusions in it. Also, small, badly cut stones, can look beyond dead. The one I had, never once did it ever refract light- it just sat there. A freaking rhinestone would have been more sparkly. (Not that I knew any better- I just liked the antique setting it was in!)

My co-worker has a similar size Old European Cut diamond that is very well cut- that darn thing is a fireball... I took it to get it sized for her and so I, ahem, test drove it a little and got to admire it in the sun. It was amazingly sparkly, blinding fire flashes from such a little stone. Very cool. I realized, seeing that, just how badly cut my original diamond was; I''d thought mayyyyybe it was just too little to perform well, but clearly not.

I definitely recommend getting a nice cut with no visible inclusions; also, I especially like antique diamonds in small sizes- the larger facets make for more noticeable chunky flashes of fire, IMHO. (OK, I like antique diamonds in ALL sizes, I admit it!) My sister & sister in law went for antique rings with center stones of less than a third carat, which work really well for budgets under $1K... they have a lot more presence than the price would suggest. I know neither one will ever trade up, they love what they have.
 
You can get a great sparkly diamond for $1000! I vote for either an ACA from WhiteFlash or H&A from GoodOldGold in a J color and eyeclean SI. Or, I love the idea of getting an older cut diamond. I love both old and new cuts and for $1000 she could get either. I do think clarity is important though. Anything eye-clean would work for me. If buying online I''d just make sure I really trusted the vendor''s opinion of eye-clean!
 
Thanks for all of your advice! Unfortunately (for me, not her) she is leaning more and more towards a princess cut...and I know nothing about them. All of my "learning" has been for RBs.

I''ll definitely steer her clear of the I clarity range and try to get her familiar with "eye-clean" in SI1 and SI2. Is there anything I should avoid when looking for princesses? I''ve seen a few people post that princesses look especially dead with a poor cut, more so than RBs. I guess just follow the cut class guidelines?
 
Date: 12/18/2008 12:07:28 PM
Author: rnbwsktles
Thanks for all of your advice! Unfortunately (for me, not her) she is leaning more and more towards a princess cut...and I know nothing about them. All of my 'learning' has been for RBs.

I'll definitely steer her clear of the I clarity range and try to get her familiar with 'eye-clean' in SI1 and SI2. Is there anything I should avoid when looking for princesses? I've seen a few people post that princesses look especially dead with a poor cut, more so than RBs. I guess just follow the cut class guidelines?
Click to expand...
You need to work with a vendor who has in house Princess, who can supply detailed photos and ASET to help you judge the cut quality and beauty of the diamond, that is the best way to shop for these shapes in my opinion. AGS0 Princess are a fair bet for cut and therefore beauty, however I believe it is best to evaluate each diamond nevertheless and not to assume anything. GIA graded Princess can also be a good buy, but as the cut isn't graded it might take more work and an experienced vendor to find the best ones. Numbers and charts can be used as a guide, but a trusted vendor with in house diamonds and actual images of the stones is the best way I believe to proceed.

You might find this thread interesting.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/princess-cut-ideal-cut.102479/
 
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