Slim shank pave settings

[cmethod2]

Hi everyone. First time poster; long time lurker.

I have been hunting for my (now) girlfriend's engagement ring for a few months. We have taken a couple trips to local jewelers and after several of these trips and some mulling, she has given me the "green light" on a slim shank pave setting with a round center stone. She doesn't care where I buy it as long as it has:

- a slim shank (1.7-2.0mm)
- a "borderless" pave style(ie no borders paralleling the side stones)
- a "tiffany style" head (ie no cathedral)
- white metal (white gold or platinum)

Two examples of the setting (as well as two settings I'm considering) are:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/six-prong-fishtail-pave-platinum-5509p

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-pave-set-4-prong-diamond-engagement-ring.html

My concern with these settings, and basically everything I am considering, is workmanship. In my eyes, the worst thing that could happen is to have my girlfriend look at her future ring one day, and see a side stone missing or, god forbid, a loose/missing center stone. I am very detail-oriented person and would prefer to see the setting in person so I can see the construction of the ring, how the side stones are forged into the metal, and so forth. However, that piece of mind comes at a price: I've seen as much as a 30% price difference in center stones offered by local jewelers vs. similar stones offered by JA/BGD. Most of the local jewelers will not set outside diamonds into their settings, and the ones that will charge extra and seem to be less than willing to do it (which is understandable given their desire to push their own stones).

I guess all I want to know is, are my concerns valid? The e-ring is a good route to go considering the price difference but a lot of people around me (including my parents) have this vision that rings bought sight unseen have a much higher risk of shoddy workmanship. Plus you loose the piece of mind of having a face to turn to if something does go wrong. But my parents are also older and aren't "aware" of the "power of the internets" so to speak and my friends are the type of people who would walk into Tiffany's for a ring just because "it's easy."

Some background: I live in the DC area, looking at a 0.8-0.9 cw (approx) round EX cut GIA/AGS w/ minimal to no florescence, and have a budget of 5-8K.

Thanks!

 

[yssie]

Fee to set stones purchased elsewhere is the norm.
JA is in MD I believe? And there are lots of vendors in NYC, though that's a bit of a hike from DC.

Well, I definitely agree that workmanship is important - even more so given that the design elements she has specified - doughnut-less, shoulderless head perched on a thin shank with non-channel pave - makes for a ring that is fundamentally fragile.

Good workmanship - well-cast and well-finished - is good workmanship, and good workmanship isn't limited to PS vendors. Personally, though, I've found that local (to me) vendors usually want 30% more for far poorer workmanship, so now I just ship all the important stuff out... but I'm sorta in the middle of nowhere, I'd be really surprised if there aren't a couple of good benches in/near DC. Hopefully others will be of more help with that.

 

[ponder]

You are looking for a delicate and dainty setting. No matter how good the quality of a 1.7-2mm pave shank is, there is always the chance of lost melee during normal wear. A quality setting will help to minimize this, but your fiance needs to understand that pave settings are not to be worn 24/7. Most on this forum will recommend not wearing pave while sleeping, showering, exercising, gardening, cleaning, or doing any thing that may result in a scraped knuckle. I dont necessarily baby mine, but in general I dont wear it around the house. I routinely just put on my jewelry right before I go out the door. I also have a plain band that I wear to work (medical field) or if I'm doing something with my hands I know I shouldn't do with my ring.

I also understand wanting to see the setting/diamond in person before you buy. Especially if you are a noobie to internet jewelry purchases. Fortunately I am very close to two big PS vendors, and I feel that the piece of mind I got with meeting the vendor and seeing their settings was worth the money I didn't save on sales tax. Especially on my first ever purchase. Fortunately you are also fairly close to a few PS vendors. Check out James Allen and Good Old Gold. Both are in the north east.

 

[ecf8503]

2nd the not wearing it all the time / babying that delicate of a setting.

I like the BG ring better; and BG has a good reputation around here for high quality workmanship.

 

[distracts]

My concern with these settings, and basically everything I am considering, is workmanship. In my eyes, the worst thing that could happen is to have my girlfriend look at her future ring one day, and see a side stone missing or, god forbid, a loose/missing center stone. I am very detail-oriented person and would prefer to see the setting in person so I can see the construction of the ring, how the side stones are forged into the metal, and so forth.

Firstly, the type of ring you are wanting to pick has a much higher chance of that happening than many other kinds. I would not go even as slim as 2mm for pave that is not brightcut (brightcut pave is when it has the borders - it's what my own e-ring has because it's more secure). I'd stick with around 2.3-2.5mm.

Secondly, do you know what to look for in terms of construction? Because if not, seeing the rings in person really wouldn't make a difference. I have found that the vast majority of rings I've seen in person, even at high-end boutiques, have shoddy workmanship. It took me almost a year of searching to find a local jeweler I trust to work on my pieces, and then I still won't let him touch my e-ring. The reviews on Yelp et al were completely useless as none of the people writing them had any idea what they were writing about. The thing with a PS-recommended vendor is that many people on this forum who are incredibly knowledgeable about jewelry have bought from them, and you can read their reviews, see close-up pictures of their work, and read about problems and how they were resolved. Each PS vendor has hundreds more reviews than local jewelers (who in my experience have one or two on Yelp, if that).

And even if you get a properly-constructed pave ring, if it is not taken care of appropriately, you will be at increased risk of losing the melee stones. It will need to be babied. No wearing it while sleeping, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, exercising, or doing anything else where pressure is being put on her hands. If it is a full eternity, she must be careful when she is gripping anything - steering wheel, grocery/shopping bags, etc. She really should be careful when doing that anyway as getting the ring out of round can cause melee stones to pop out, but it's more of a concern if it's a full or 3/4 eternity because those are weaker. The ring should be checked once or twice a year to hopefully catch any problems before they start. And even with all this, as with any ring, one misplaced whack or steady bit of pressure, and stones will pop out. Many, many PSers have had pave rings for a number of years with no problems, but all of us who have them are aware that despite our best efforts, we may lose melee stones, and have to send in our rings to be repaired (or remade). You have to be okay with that tradeoff before you decide on a pave setting.

 

[Gypsy]

I think if you are going with 2mm, in PLATINUM (key), and have no Azures you are fine with the great product BGD puts out, especially it it's not cathedral. If you have the budget and can afford it, ask Steven Kirsch if he can do it for you as with pave hand forged is even stronger.

I have a 2mm Scott Kay band with borderless pave. It's a tank. So I would look at Scott Kay and see if they have a design that suits, as they probably do. Pearlmans Jewelers is a Scott Kay vendor, they are fabulous to work with and can find you the diamond of your dreams too. So that's another option for you.

 

[cmethod2]

Thanks for all of the replies. I know you all hear this a lot but you all are, once again, a godsend.

Firstly, the type of ring you are wanting to pick has a much higher chance of that happening than many other kinds. I would not go even as slim as 2mm for pave that is not brightcut (brightcut pave is when it has the borders - it's what my own e-ring has because it's more secure). I'd stick with around 2.3-2.5mm.

I always had a feeling this was the case and mentioned this to my girlfriend earlier. She said she would think about it but as I'm sure you can understand, its never easy to tell the love of your life that she can't have what she wants for reasons that can't be helped. I know pave and thin shank were both highest on her list so I guess the question will become which will be the highest. I'm just tired of going to jewelers; they will tell her heaven itself will open up if she gets ring X and she'll believe it. Then I have to go back later and tell them I'm not buying from them because they lied to my girlfriend to make a sale. Honor is a big thing with me in these situations.

Secondly, do you know what to look for in terms of construction? Because if not, seeing the rings in person really wouldn't make a difference. I have found that the vast majority of rings I've seen in person, even at high-end boutiques, have shoddy workmanship. It took me almost a year of searching to find a local jeweler I trust to work on my pieces, and then I still won't let him touch my e-ring. The reviews on Yelp et al were completely useless as none of the people writing them had any idea what they were writing about. The thing with a PS-recommended vendor is that many people on this forum who are incredibly knowledgeable about jewelry have bought from them, and you can read their reviews, see close-up pictures of their work, and read about problems and how they were resolved. Each PS vendor has hundreds more reviews than local jewelers (who in my experience have one or two on Yelp, if that).

I want to go with a e-ring because most, if not all, of the big jewelers in DC make money off idiots who do this "just to get it done." I would call out a few jewelers in particular but that's not really relevant to the post. In any case, if I can do this online, I would like to do this online. I know there's always "that risk" but given the reviews online, and especially the reviews on PS, there would have to be some mass BGD/GOG/JA corporate conspiracy to hack all of the reviews.

And even if you get a properly-constructed pave ring, if it is not taken care of appropriately, you will be at increased risk of losing the melee stones. It will need to be babied. No wearing it while sleeping, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, exercising, or doing anything else where pressure is being put on her hands. If it is a full eternity, she must be careful when she is gripping anything - steering wheel, grocery/shopping bags, etc. She really should be careful when doing that anyway as getting the ring out of round can cause melee stones to pop out, but it's more of a concern if it's a full or 3/4 eternity because those are weaker. The ring should be checked once or twice a year to hopefully catch any problems before they start. And even with all this, as with any ring, one misplaced whack or steady bit of pressure, and stones will pop out. Many, many PSers have had pave rings for a number of years with no problems, but all of us who have them are aware that despite our best efforts, we may lose melee stones, and have to send in our rings to be repaired (or remade). You have to be okay with that tradeoff before you decide on a pave setting.

We haven't entered the area of eternity bands (one step at a time) but again, I had a feeling this was the case. I know my girlfriend wants to be able to actually wear her ring and show it off but wasn't aware of the shank issue until now. I also don't know whether she would be okay with that tradeoff; my gut tells me that it wouldn't be okay and she would "deal" with a thicker shank in order to not have the ring in the repair shop more often than not.

I think if you are going with 2mm, in PLATINUM (key), and have no Azures you are fine with the great product BGD puts out, especially it it's not cathedral. If you have the budget and can afford it, ask Steven Kirsch if he can do it for you as with pave hand forged is even stronger.

I have a 2mm Scott Kay band with borderless pave. It's a tank. So I would look at Scott Kay and see if they have a design that suits, as they probably do. Pearlmans Jewelers is a Scott Kay vendor, they are fabulous to work with and can find you the diamond of your dreams too. So that's another option for you.

My fallback is the BGD because I think that is the best made one of all and it is also at the top of my ideal budget breakout of setting v. stone. I doubt I will be able to afford a CAD created design, much less a hand forged ring, without taking a serious hit on the quality of the stone. I also don't know how much more it would give me over getting the BGD setting.

The only dealer of Scott Kay within a reasonable distance to my residence is Jared, and I am not going to Jared. I will fly to Sierra Leone and cut the diamond myself with a dull rock before I go to Jared.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay. Well, I think you'll be fine with the designs at BGD you are looking at. Especially the first one as it is exactly what you want. BGD can also help you find whatever stone you want.

I've bought from BGD and any time I've had even the slightest issue Lesley has sent me an overnight (or 2 day if that's my preference) label and I've had the piece good as new back in a week. Which is the same repair time as any of my local places. I understand the concern, and shared it myself, but having worked with them on 3 pieces now, frankly it's better than the service any place local provides even if they are in TX and I'm in CA.

 

[cmethod2]

Okay. Well, I think you'll be fine with the designs at BGD you are looking at. Especially the first one as it is exactly what you want. BGD can also help you find whatever stone you want.

I've bought from BGD and any time I've had even the slightest issue Lesley has sent me an overnight (or 2 day if that's my preference) label and I've had the piece good as new back in a week. Which is the same repair time as any of my local places. I understand the concern, and shared it myself, but having worked with them on 3 pieces now, frankly it's better than the service any place local provides even if they are in TX and I'm in CA.

Haha, if that first line was directed at the Jared comment, that was an attempt at humor, and apparently it was a bad attempt. They happen a lot with me; my joke success rate is only around 40-45%.

The BGD comment means a lot because one of the biggest concerns I had with the e-tailers was what would happen if something happens. I know being able to have someone that you can look in the eyes is worth something but as long as I have a POC at BGD that I can contact if something happens, that should be fine.

I am going to hold out to see if my girlfriend decides to give a little on the shank width because if she is willing to live with the extra width in exchange for the extra security, I would feel better about the purchase overall, and I'm sure she would appreciate the extra flexibility as to when she can wear the ring.

 

[Gypsy]

My wedding band is 2mm. My engagement ring is 2.2 it's really minute in terms of visual (to me) but can be a big deal with structural. That said, I didn't want super skinny in terms of looks. I wanted delicate but safe.

 

[cmethod2]

My wedding band is 2mm. My engagement ring is 2.2 it's really minute in terms of visual (to me) but can be a big deal with structural. That said, I didn't want super skinny in terms of looks. I wanted delicate but safe.

The ring she was originally shown at a well known DC area jeweler was 1.7mm. It was actually a halo setting w/ 3/4th eternity with shared prongs btw the side stones which would be (somehow) modified into a standard 4 prong setting. The jeweler did not explain how this would be done; they just said they would "work" with their setting supplier to "make sure it would happen." I haven't heard from them since so I'm guessing their supplier didn't feel the same way.

Point being the 1.7mm was the width my girlfriend originally wanted and the 2.0mm would be the compromise. I'm curious to see how much wider this gets considering how locked she was to a thin shank.

 

[cmethod2]

Assuming I get the green light for a slightly wider shank, would this setting be more secure than the BGD setting?

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/harmony-diamond-engagement-ring-890.htm

I'm also going to likely drop a line to BGD sometime tomorrow or early next week to get a ballpark of how much it would cost to CAD design the first setting in a 2.3mm shank.

 

[ponder]

if Bryan Gavin is confident enough in the design to make it a stock setting, then I wouldn't be worried about its structural integrity. Brian definitely knows what he is doing, and as Gypsy pointed out their service is top notch. That's amazing turnaround on a repair. He did an amazing job designing my ring, and almost 4 years later I have still not lost a stone. (knock on wood)

 

[cmethod2]

if Bryan Gavin is confident enough in the design to make it a stock setting, then I wouldn't be worried about its structural integrity. Brian definitely knows what he is doing, and as Gypsy pointed out their service is top notch. That's amazing turnaround on a repair. He did an amazing job designing my ring, and almost 4 years later I have still not lost a stone. (knock on wood)

I sure hope so. My girlfriend thought about it and does not want to go larger than 2.0mm and she even considers that to be too thick (was thinking 1.85mm). Also, she still wants a pave setting so basically nothing has changed. So it looks like the BGD setting to be the winner.

Thanks again for your replies everyone.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I have numerous 1.5 mm pave rings with no issues

e-ring: Leon Mege - 1.5 mm split shank
w-band (curved eternity): Steven Kirsch - 1.5 mm
w-band (straight eternity): Leon MEge - 1.5 mm
rhr ring (halo): Mayat Hannah - 1.5 mm