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Signature Ideal vs Ideal

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1031Prime

Rough_Rock
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Jul 4, 2007
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Hi all,

I''m a beginner.

Shopping on Blue Nile I see this extra cut grading -- "Signature Ideal". Using the pricescope cutadviser I notice that these diamonds usually fall in ranges very very close to both GIA''s excellent cut candidates and AGS''s ideal cut candidates.

My girl friend indicated that she dreams of a diamond that sparkles as much as possible (she cares less about fire) and as white as possible (I know cut has nothing to do with color, but I''d like to mention this for my upcoming questions).

So here are my questions:
1) To those who have experience - does signature ideal diamonds really sparkle more than ideal ones (to match my girl friend''s desire)?
2) Since she asked for whiteness, initially I am targeting at colorness i.e. D-F. But if 1) matters I may go for a G --- does it make that much of a difference for the naked eye go from ''colorless'' to ''near colorless''?
3) The biggest headache I have like many others is clarify. For me this is the only area that I can sacrifice. I read too many threads about how a VS can have inclusions detectable by naked eye and SI1/2 can have perfectly eye clean stones.
4) If my budget is around $13000 and I am looking for a 1.5 carat+ diamond, please feel free to suggest me different combinations, based on the requirements I listed above.

Thank you in advance!

1031Prime
 
Date: 7/4/2007 2:51:11 PM
Author:1031Prime
Hi all,

I''m a beginner.

Shopping on Blue Nile I see this extra cut grading -- ''Signature Ideal''. Using the pricescope cutadviser I notice that these diamonds usually fall in ranges very very close to both GIA''s excellent cut candidates and AGS''s ideal cut candidates.

My girl friend indicated that she dreams of a diamond that sparkles as much as possible (she cares less about fire) and as white as possible (I know cut has nothing to do with color, but I''d like to mention this for my upcoming questions).

So here are my questions:
1) To those who have experience - does signature ideal diamonds really sparkle more than ideal ones (to match my girl friend''s desire)?
2) Since she asked for whiteness, initially I am targeting at colorness i.e. D-F. But if 1) matters I may go for a G --- does it make that much of a difference for the naked eye go from ''colorless'' to ''near colorless''?
3) The biggest headache I have like many others is clarify. For me this is the only area that I can sacrifice. I read too many threads about how a VS can have inclusions detectable by naked eye and SI1/2 can have perfectly eye clean stones.
4) If my budget is around $13000 and I am looking for a 1.5 carat+ diamond, please feel free to suggest me different combinations, based on the requirements I listed above.

Thank you in advance!

1031Prime
Click to expand...
Hello, and welcome!

1) no, that is just a name BN uses for their in-house selection of ideal stones. You want AGS0 or GIA Excellent certs, so don''t worry about what other labels the vendor uses.

2) you will probably need to go below F if you want to go to 1.5 cts and stay around $13,000. G-H is more realistic.

3) I prefer VS2 clarity, but you''ll need to look for eye-clean SI1''s to stay in your price range.

4) I''ll take a look and come back!
 
Date: 7/4/2007 2:51:11 PM
Author:1031Prime
Hi all,

I''m a beginner.

Shopping on Blue Nile I see this extra cut grading -- ''Signature Ideal''. Using the pricescope cutadviser I notice that these diamonds usually fall in ranges very very close to both GIA''s excellent cut candidates and AGS''s ideal cut candidates.

My girl friend indicated that she dreams of a diamond that sparkles as much as possible (she cares less about fire) and as white as possible (I know cut has nothing to do with color, but I''d like to mention this for my upcoming questions).

So here are my questions:
1) To those who have experience - does signature ideal diamonds really sparkle more than ideal ones (to match my girl friend''s desire)?
2) Since she asked for whiteness, initially I am targeting at colorness i.e. D-F. But if 1) matters I may go for a G --- does it make that much of a difference for the naked eye go from ''colorless'' to ''near colorless''?
3) The biggest headache I have like many others is clarify. For me this is the only area that I can sacrifice. I read too many threads about how a VS can have inclusions detectable by naked eye and SI1/2 can have perfectly eye clean stones.
4) If my budget is around $13000 and I am looking for a 1.5 carat+ diamond, please feel free to suggest me different combinations, based on the requirements I listed above.

Thank you in advance!

1031Prime
Click to expand...
If you''re buying from Blue Nile''s Ideal, I''d stick to AGS light performance stones.

Most people can''t tell the difference between D and G when face-up, but seeing it from the side is possible.

Seems like your budget is adequate, so what you''re looking at is fine.
 
Have you looked around at the PS vendors...(**hmmmm, clearing throat* Jennifer...**hmmm hmm* Excuse me. Down at JA)?

Even for a $500 purchase I personally would want more information before purchasing it online than BN can offer. And for 13k I would DEF demand more information than blue Nile offers, as well as an in-person viewing of a few key in-house diamonds if AT ALL possible. If not the viewing at least the additional information. You should def check out some of these venders or work with very good local jeweler if you can find one.

As far as these online guys go, call them up, read threads about what they offer and the differences and their reputation, I think you will be swept away.

I have worked with BN and James Allen, so I have a bit of experience in this regard, though not a tremendous amount.
 
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-231904.htm 1.51 H SI1, $11,253 with wire/pricescope discount

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-231902.htm 1.55 F SI1, $13,580 w/discounts

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-312245.htm 1.62 G SI1, $12,888 with discounts

Of those 3, I'd choose the 1.62 G SI1!!!! Excellent diamond, great size, nice price! Because of the cut, it will face up very white.

One more thing. I prefer working with WhiteFlash or Good Old Gold because they have great trade-in policies, just in case you want to upgrade her diamond in the future.
 
Thank you so much for everyone''s replies!

diamondseeker2006 can you educate me a bit regarding the wire/pricescope discounts that you mentioned?

Cheers,
1031Prime
 
WhiteFlash gives about a 5% discount on their A Cut Above stones if you pay by wire and tell them you are a Pricescope member. Their other stones get a smaller discount. Likewise, other vendors such as Good Old Gold, offer a wire discount which is listed on each diamond webpage.
 
You can find the pricescope discount by running searches on Price scope. At the top of this paige is a very simple one, and if you go all the way back to Pricescope.com front page (not the forum homepage) then you can run some more advanced and wider searches and it will list the diamonds via their pricescope discounts.

Naturally we all support most vehemently those vendors from which we purchased. I think we should have a field day competition or something and settle it once and for all.

Anyway, just to boost my guys some more--though if it were me I would look SERIOUSLY at the WF selection as well--James Allen does not require a money wire transfer for their PS discount as listed in the price scope search. Though they offer a money wire transfer discount in addition to the ps discount.
 
What is everyone''s opinion about this one:

http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.asp?__fun_frm=i&pid=LD01089021&filter_id=1

Depth %: 60.1%
Table %: 60%
Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Medium
Measurements: 7.42 x 7.46 x 4.47 mm

1) Would the medium fluorescence add/detracts from the stone''s whiteness?
2) I''m not too familiar with the Cut & Above / Heart & Arrows setting. Is it supposed to make the stone brighter/sparkling more?

Cheers,
1031Prime
 
That stone is not of the cut quality as the A Cut Aboves. The hearts and arrows cuts are cut for top light performance. And for Workinghard''s benefit, I did do the search on PS, and while I have bought from WF and Good Old Gold, I just did not see stones from other vendors that I liked as well as these three.
 
Date: 7/4/2007 4:17:21 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
You can find the pricescope discount by running searches on Price scope. At the top of this paige is a very simple one, and if you go all the way back to Pricescope.com front page (not the forum homepage) then you can run some more advanced and wider searches and it will list the diamonds via their pricescope discounts.


Naturally we all support most vehemently those vendors from which we purchased. I think we should have a field day competition or something and settle it once and for all.


Anyway, just to boost my guys some more--though if it were me I would look SERIOUSLY at the WF selection as well--James Allen does not require a money wire transfer for their PS discount as listed in the price scope search. Though they offer a money wire transfer discount in addition to the ps discount.
Click to expand...

I am so new the PS that I don''t know "WF" is non who James Allen is :)
Mind pointing me to the appropriate section or a FAQ page?

Thanks so much.
1031Prime
 
Oh stupid me. WF must be whiteflash.

1031Prime
 
oh I didn't mean you diamond seeker, I havent run the search yet as I am doing alot of other stuff and just check this in between. I was just telling him because he was asking about the discount and I assumed he didn't know where to find it.

I remember when I was first running these searches I was using the search at the top of the page and got really frustrated because I didn't have many options and couldn't widen the search parameters. That didn't last long of course, but since he didn't know about the discount, I figured he was new to the whole search procedure as I had been!
9.gif
Then you can imagine my frustration when the prices listed didn't match the prices on the website! I initially almost left PS all together for that reason! (of course I don't give up on good deals that quickly though, but I was a bit irked to start off with.)

oh, and the comments about pushing our own vendors was mostly about picking on me, as they are always the first ones I mention now
2.gif
. Def don't take offense, it was really a joke. And obviously we can only REALLY refer people to those business we have worked with and know are trustworthy.
 
He meant the WhiteFlash Expert Selection stones, which is their next-to-the-best diamonds, often also ideal cut. But I already checked those for you!

Here are the WhiteFlash (WF) and Good Old Gold (GOG) sites for you to look at. GOG in particular has a wonderful section called the 4 C''s and Beyond where you can learn a lot about diamond cut and other qualities!

http://www.whiteflash.com/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/

The advantage to these vendors is that they have already pre-selected truly excellent stones, and they give you many photos and idealscope pictures, etc. to give you the most possible info on the stones.
 
Date: 7/4/2007 4:38:31 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
oh I didn''t mean you diamond seeker, I havent run the search yet as I am doing alot of other stuff and just check this in between. I was just telling him because he was asking about the discount and I assumed he didn''t know where to find it.

I remember when I was first running these searches I was using the search at the top of the page and got really frustrated because I didn''t have many options and couldn''t widen the search parameters. That didn''t last long of course, but since he didn''t know about the discount, I figured he was new to the whole search procedure as I had been!
9.gif
Then you can imagine my frustration when the prices listed didn''t match the prices on the website! I initially almost left PS all together for that reason! (of course I don''t give up on good deals that quickly though, but I was a bit irked to start off with.)

oh, and the comments about pushing our own vendors was mostly about picking on me, as they are always the first ones I mention now
2.gif
. Def don''t take offense, it was really a joke. And obviously we can only REALLY refer people to those business we have worked with and know are trustworthy.
Click to expand...
Thank you, and you are very right that it is good when we can give our personal references based on experience!
 
oh dear, I am going to start a fight if I keep bringing up JA here :)

JamesAllen.com

And again, if you run a search with PS it will bring up a large selection of diamonds to choose from and it will have a link to their website on the right.
 
Date: 7/4/2007 4:44:24 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
oh dear, I am going to start a fight if I keep bringing up JA here :)

JamesAllen.com

And again, if you run a search with PS it will bring up a large selection of diamonds to choose from and it will have a link to their website on the right.
Click to expand...
No, not at all! I usually look there, but they have a huge database. You then have to explain that he should look only at the diamonds that have a cert and picture. Then you have to understand the numbers.

Here are some rough guidelines to help you stay within ideal cut range:

Table: 54-57%

Depth: 60-62%

Crown angle: 34-35

(Pavilion angle will depend on the crown angle)

Girdle: thin, medium, slightly thick

You can get a good deal there, but not all their stones are top cut quality. You can sometimes find a great one, though!
 
Hey Starker,

I came up with the second one DS mentioned as one to also consider.

But, your option is interesting, and may be swell, scoring well on the HCA, while being a 60/60 for table & depth, which sometimes people make fun of, but this one is apparently nice.

In a perfect world, you'd send both to an appraiser, and get an expert opinion.

As you mentioned at the top...SI 1s can be good or bad. For the good, WF has seen theirs and judged. This probably not true yet of the BN option...though you can ask them to do this for you, and they'd, I'd guess, call over to the site holder and ask them to look at it for you. Not a worthless exercise...and you'd get two colors better. Note also, the flor is buying you some of that...so you should try to consider if you'd like that or not...many do.

Regards, and welcome.

and p.s. to your note above, D.S. your table definition is not unusual, but would throw 1031's out, and maybe shouldn't. I could be puzzled why his option falls out of the chart on the HCA for excellent, but is graded by GIA as excellent anyway...but it's probably not that important.
 
Thank you all for all the replies!
I''m overwhelmed :)

Not that I can make the decision today, but for (my) educational purposes to compare the two stones above:
1) The BN one has a D (i.e two grades lighter) plus fluorescence
2) The WF one has top notch hearts & arrows cut

While I understand that without putting the two side by side you can''t really compare, is there a general rule for which one will more likely be brighter and sparkle more?

Regards,
1031Prime
 
well I happen to be back online!:) but with only that information nobody in the world would pick number 1. On price scope that is like saying "my grandmother has a D color diamond I can use, or an F color from Tiffany's...which one would sparkle more?" Who would pick grandma's for sparkles? (not that BN is a grandma, im simply saying there wasn't any useful information given to determine light performance in the number 1, and a very well known in the region name put on the second.)

We really need links or cut information to give any information, on both of them honestly, but most people have a lot of faith in ACA.

Also, Fluo in a D diamond won't make it any "whiter" it will make it "bluer." Which I honestly wish I had found. I would love to have my E color with Fluo, I think it would make it even more magnificent. But that is purely a matter of taste, and when looking at F-D colors should not be used in evaluation of "Whitness" at all.

And also, when you say "plus fluo." I wonder, what cert are you looking at? Gia list three levels of fluo that they themselves say are completely negligible to appearance.
 
Here is the link:
http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.asp?__fun_frm=i&pid=LD01089021&filter_id=1

I think the Flor is medium blue.

1031Prime
 
Date: 7/5/2007 2:56:29 AM
Author: 1031Prime
Here is the link:
http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.asp?__fun_frm=i&pid=LD01089021&filter_id=1

I think the Flor is medium blue.

1031Prime
Click to expand...
As I''ve mentioned, you really should look at AGS Ideal stones if you cannot get pictures. Since you cannot, the 60% table and very good symmetry and polish are questionable variables. Might be nice, maybe not. Some people would think it''s too risky.
 
Date: 7/4/2007 3:13:46 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-231904.htm 1.51 H SI1, $11,253 with wire/pricescope discount

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-231902.htm 1.55 F SI1, $13,580 w/discounts

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-312245.htm 1.62 G SI1, $12,888 with discounts

Of those 3, I''d choose the 1.62 G SI1!!!! Excellent diamond, great size, nice price! Because of the cut, it will face up very white.

One more thing. I prefer working with WhiteFlash or Good Old Gold because they have great trade-in policies, just in case you want to upgrade her diamond in the future.
Click to expand...
That 1.62 G SI1 is awesome!
 
I am loving the 1.6 G/SI people have suggested here.

I have WF ACA stones and they are truly the most sparkly diamonds I have ever seen, if she wants a sparkly diamond...this is it!

G will still be blindingly white and I don''t think she''d be able to tell the difference between an F and a G.
 
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