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should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining?

Himalayas

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
43
Hello, I am considering purchasing this diamond. On the GIA report:

2.17ct J VS2
8.32-8.37x5.07 mm
triple EX
depth 60.8%, table 57%
crown 34degree, pav 40.6degree
Girdle med to sl thick 3.5%

there are a few inclusions such as crystals, clouds, needles and indented natural (which looks like it's on the girdle and small).

Comment says that surface gaining is not shown.

HCA is 0.7TIC, I believe.

I had to order it and it's currently at my local jeweler. I haven't seen it. my contact there said that she can't see the graining with a loupe. If she can't I am sure I won't be able to. It is returnable (that's why purchase is still on consideration :) ).

My question is: would you pass this stone up because of surface graining even though you can't see it? is surface graining a real concern in VS2 clarity grade?

Please share your thoughts on this. any help is much appreciated!
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,314
Re: should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining

Himalayas|1474481370|4079290 said:
Hello, I am considering purchasing this diamond. On the GIA report:

2.17ct J VS2
8.32-8.37x5.07 mm
triple EX
depth 60.8%, table 57%
crown 34degree, pav 40.6degree
Girdle med to sl thick 3.5%

there are a few inclusions such as crystals, clouds, needles and indented natural (which looks like it's on the girdle and small).

Comment says that surface gaining is not shown.

HCA is 0.7TIC, I believe.

I had to order it and it's currently at my local jeweler. I haven't seen it. my contact there said that she can't see the graining with a loupe. If she can't I am sure I won't be able to. It is returnable (that's why purchase is still on consideration :) ).

My question is: would you pass this stone up because of surface graining even though you can't see it? is surface graining a real concern in VS2 clarity grade?

Please share your thoughts on this. any help is much appreciated!
Graining is more an identifying characteristic than a 'concern'. Generally it will be difficult for even an experienced grader to see. It will therefore have very little if any impact on light performance in and of itself, unless it is very pronounced.

Graining can potentially have an additive effect when combined with other features such as clouds, twinning, and strong fluorescence in reducing transparency to a degree that is noticeable to a trained eye.
 

Himalayas

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
43
Re: should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining

Hi Texas, thanks a lot for your input. you mentioned about clouds and this one has clouds, do you think it's possible for VS2 stone to have transparency issue due to clouds and surface graining? I am asking because I might not be able to check it thoroughly under different lighting conditions. thanks.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,314
Re: should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining

Himalayas|1474495243|4079353 said:
Hi Texas, thanks a lot for your input. you mentioned about clouds and this one has clouds, do you think it's possible for VS2 stone to have transparency issue due to clouds and surface graining? I am asking because I might not be able to check it thoroughly under different lighting conditions. thanks.
Probably not, but it is always good to have any diamond purchase carefully reviewed by an independent expert with no connection to the sale. And to do this while comfortably within your return window.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,624
Re: should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining

It depends on where and how much.
I have seen more than one case where it was on the crown and with the slightest oil or dirt it looked awful.
On the other hand it could be a total non-issue.
It is impossible to say without an inspection.
 

Himalayas

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
43
Re: should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining

inspection is key. got it. thanks.
 

hifihua428

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
63
Re: should I pass this beauty up because of surface graining

inspection is key. got it. thanks.
Hi Himalayas,

I know this is an old post, but I was wondering if you purchased the diamond in the end?
Were you able to observe any negative effects, I am in a similar situation.

Thank you if you can reply to my comment!
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,624
Hi Himalayas,

I know this is an old post, but I was wondering if you purchased the diamond in the end?
Were you able to observe any negative effects, I am in a similar situation.

Thank you if you can reply to my comment!
If it helps any my wife's diamond I bought her has that comment on the report.
Upside down when its dirty in the right light and the right angle you can see it with slight magnification.
Its a total none issue for that diamond.
On the other hand I have seen surface graining on the crown facets that became eye visible when the diamond was dirty.
 

hifihua428

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
63
If it helps any my wife's diamond I bought her has that comment on the report.
Upside down when its dirty in the right light and the right angle you can see it with slight magnification.
Its a total none issue for that diamond.
On the other hand I have seen surface graining on the crown facets that became eye visible when the diamond was dirty.
May I ask if it was a IF clarity grade, as the one I am looking at has IF grading. I have no way of inspecting the diamond as its located overseas. The supplier said its non-issue, but its hard to judge solely on seller's words (and many aren't even aware of the potential issue with surface graining.) When you said you can view it at certain light at certain angle when its dirty, does it affect the transparency or the beauty of the diamond at all, even a minute amount?
Thank you for your contribute, its definitely helpful! :))

The one I am looking at attached 1.20ct E IF.jpg 4822260104 1.20 E IF.jpg 4822260104_ASETWhite.jpg 4822260104_IdealScope.jpg
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,624
No issue, it is on one of the lower girdle facets and is long and skinny. Its a total non-issue.

I do believe that a diamond could have surface graining on the crown and still get IF.
 

hifihua428

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
63
No issue, it is on one of the lower girdle facets and is long and skinny. Its a total non-issue.

I do believe that a diamond could have surface graining on the crown and still get IF.
Karl,

Do you think I should avoid buying if the surface graining is on the crown even if its trasparent (i.e. only viewable from certain angle)?? Given the magnifed and aset idealscope images I show above, is there anything I should be aware of?

I have been told that the ASET and idealscope image is computer generated, from your experience, do you reckon this is the case?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,624
The problem with it being on the crown is in some cases when the diamond gets dirty it can get really obvious to the naked eye. I don't have any data on how common that is but I have seen it a couple times. Yes they are computer generated. They can give a general idea but are not 100% accurate.
Real images are much better.
Where this gets interesting is that I asked someone who knows far more about diamond grading than I do and he stated that graining on an IF is looked at more harshly than on diamonds of other clarity grades when deciding to note it on the report.
Whats the return policy and are they willing to pull it in and give it an in person review for you with real pictures?
 

hifihua428

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
63
I live in NZ, so there is basically no return policy available for me. Once I order the diamond, its difficult to reject the diamond. Especially the issues related to graining, many jewelers aren't even aware of the potential negative effect. So I doubt they will let me refund if I said graining was the primary reason for the rejection.

You said "graining on an IF is looked at more harshly than on diamonds of other clarity grades when deciding to note it on the report". Does that imply surface graining note(comment) on IF clarity stone is not as serious as it sound?

This is the video the supplier gave me.
http://hdfiles.in/hd.aspx?stoneid=4822260104&sid=502711&rid=941365&p=t0067&b=none&a=7&avid=17&acid=0
I am not even sure if this video is the actual video of the diamond as its noted above the video "This Movie is for Inclusion reference only. Color of the diamond may appear different, depending on your screen resolution."

Do you think this video gives appropriate representation of the graining and whether it causes transparency issue? Because from this video, I cannot see any graining and transparency seems good.
 
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