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Should I keep this eBay OEC diamond?

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
I made an earlier post here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/searching-for-an-oec-am-i-doing-it-right.203408/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/searching-for-an-oec-am-i-doing-it-right.203408/[/URL] asking for advice on where to buy an OEC diamond from. I ended up taking a pretty big risk and purchased an OEC three stone ring on eBay. The centre diamond was exactly within the carat range I was looking for and the ring was a fabulous price with a great returns policy. I collected the ring today and I am hoping you clever diamond gurus can offer your wisdom on whether this OEC is a dud or a keeper. I am absolutely in love with the OEC facets. The culet is the perfect size and there is stunning kozibe when you look at the diamond closely. So far, the ring is stunning in daylight, overcast, and incandescent lighting. However in the absolute sunshine when the sun strikes the diamond head on, there seems to be a dark area which could perhaps be a window when the ring is held an arms length away. It was difficult to capture the darkness in photographs/video but I did my best. Overall I love the stone, but I just don't know if the dark area will bother me too much. 95% of the time the stone is perfect, so it's probably something I can live with. I am working with a low budget, so I do have to make some compromises. Without further ado, here are the photos. It's only letting me upload one photo at the moment. I'll try again later.

oecclose.png
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
Managed to upload some more photos. These mostly try to highlight the diamond at its worst, when the dark area can be seen.

darkinsun.jpg

handoec.jpg

darkspot.jpg

ohno.jpg

darkcentre.jpg
Close up of previous photo

And one nice one :)

oecoecoec.jpg
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,244
It has a lot of leakage in the centre . Notice in the hand shots how the centre is all hazy and brown looking? It's sort of a fish eye. THat makes it dark in strong lighting. I can also see the same problem in the face on shot, notice how he central facets look hazy and imprecise? The cut is not great in my opinion. I know you say it's great looking in person to your eyes, but if you are not very familiar with well cut diamonds, including old cuts, all diamonds look really pretty!

What did you pay and what is the millimetre diameter of the diamond?
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
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Hi Dreamer, thank you for your reply. I do notice that haziness in the hand shots, however I think in person it is a lot more crisp. I really had a difficult time photographing this ring. I definitely do notice the black areas in person though, sometimes more so than I have captured in the photos.

The ring doesn't have any certification, but according to the seller the diamond is 0.86ct measuring 5.7x5.8mm. I paid $650USD, or $700 AUD including shipping. It is slightly warm, but very white in some lighting. I absolutely love the colour of it. I just want to be really happy with the diamond because of course I want to have it for the rest of my life. The dark spots might bug me, but I might learn to love it. Also it will be going into a custom setting which won't be able to easily change to an upgrade diamond in the future (bezel set with art deco cluster halo).
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
6,131
While the price is amazing, and I think for a lot of things it would be a fine diamond, I think if you are going to bezel set it, it is not the diamond for you. I'm pretty sure bezeling will exacerbate the fisheye effect. Try wrapping the sides of the setting in tinfoil and see what happens to the diamond's performance.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,244
umbrella|1405003628|3710463 said:
Hi Dreamer, thank you for your reply. I do notice that haziness in the hand shots, however I think in person it is a lot more crisp. I really had a difficult time photographing this ring. I definitely do notice the black areas in person though, sometimes more so than I have captured in the photos.

The ring doesn't have any certification, but according to the seller the diamond is 0.86ct measuring 5.7x5.8mm. I paid $650USD, or $700 AUD including shipping. It is slightly warm, but very white in some lighting. I absolutely love the colour of it. I just want to be really happy with the diamond because of course I want to have it for the rest of my life. The dark spots might bug me, but I might learn to love it. Also it will be going into a custom setting which won't be able to easily change to an upgrade diamond in the future (bezel set with art deco cluster halo).

I have bought many diamonds on ebay based on photos... I can tell what the cut quality is like from your photos even if they are poor :)) Of course the stone looks different in person than in magnified photos. But I can tell you that in person this diamond will look different than a diamond with better cutting. In particular, you will get more edge to edge sparkle in a better cut stone, and less "dead" areas. A better cut diamond will look more "alive". So my assessment is not an assessment contingent on your photos. It is based on my own experience looking at photos and then seeing diamonds in real life.

ETA: I want to add that my concern about the lack of crispness is not about how the diamond looks in photos. I don't care how it looks in photos! My concern about the lack of crispness in photos is that it translates into less life and sparkle in real life than you could have in a stone that displayed more crisp patterning in photos. So the "problems" evident in photos translate into other problems in real life, and it is the real life problems that I am warning you about. If you are not very experienced with well cut old stones, you may not notice them. But if you had this diamond and a well cut diamond in hand to compare, you would see what I am talking about. Make sense?

The price is good for the spread.

I would personally want a better specimen for a forever ring. If you don't care about the diamond but just want a nice setting, there are other options. But for me, the diamond is the star and I would want a real star. I would pay more for the diamond and get a simple mount if my total budget including a fancy halo mount would not allow me to get a really well cut example of old world craftsmanship.

But, it sounds like you have already decided to keep this, so maybe I will shut up ;))
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,244
One final thing and I will stop spamming you :bigsmile:

My posts are intended to let you make an informed choice about this diamond. But I am not urging you either way. We all make compromises when buying diamonds. You see the stone in person, not us. You paid what I believe to be a very good price for carat weight. So if you want to keep it, don't fear judgement from me! It is true you will need to pay more to get a nicer cut, or get lucky on ebay (very lucky).
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
Hi distracts. That's good advice thank you, I will give wrapping tin foil around it a go.

OECsareforLovers - Yes I think I'm starting to see that fish eye leakage now too :wall: Dreamer's old cut post you linked is very helpful. If only I saw it before I made my purchase!

Dreamer - Thank you so much for your informed replies. I certainly haven't made up my decision yet if I should keep the stone. I came here wanting honest, knowledgeable opinions which you have graciously provided. After reading your comments, I guess I am starting to notice that the stone only sparkles more around the table than inside the table. As I am very new to diamonds, I wasn't sure if this was characteristic of OECs, so you've been helpful in highlighting that perhaps my stone isn't a great performer. You must be so clever and have so much experience with OECs if you can judge them just by viewing photographs! You have made a very good assessment of my diamond based on the photos, I honestly didn't know that was possible.

So I guess now what I have to weigh up is if I should keep searching for "the one" or if this diamond is good enough for me. Dreamer I understand your opinion of spending more money on a better diamond and getting a simple setting, compromising on the custom route when on a budget. However I almost love settings more than diamonds (controversy hehe!). I'm wondering if once I set the diamond in the setting, the intricacies of the art deco style will distract my eyes from the diamonds flaws? I think I'm lucky that I don't have a wealth of knowledge or experience with diamonds, because that might make me a bit naive, for lack of a better word, of what's good and what's not. I am quickly becoming attached to this diamond (had it for less than 24 hours, oh dear) so I hope I make my decision quickly because I don't want my emotions interfering!

I guess the positives of keeping it are:
-it will allow me to spend more money on a wedding band or on the wedding/honeymoon
-I won't have to spend more time searching the internet/emailing different timezones (very tedious)
-the culet is the absolute perfect size
-the colour is divine.

The negatives:
-not a good sparkle spread
-dead areas of light leakage
-might regret not getting a better stone

So I have some thinking to do.


And if it helps at all, my inspiration for my custom ring will be something similar to this, but round:

nlr12259.jpg

thumb__1_.jpg
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,244
There are some nice features of this diamond. It's very round and I bet it's pretty fiery because f the style of cut. Kozibe is a good thing. Other than the leakage this is he type of cut I like. If you unset the centre stone you could list the mounting for sale here on the PS pre-loved forum including the side stones if they are in decent condition (not cracked or with large visible inclusions) and likely recoupe about $300 of your purchase price. Lots of people on PS like to buy inexpensive mounts for their coloured gems. That would make your investment in this diamond about $400. So you kind of have to decide if you love it $400 worth! :dance: You know, warts and all so to speak. I suspect you do :angel: and you won't find the same size for that price. And it is still an old cut, no matter it's flaws, which to me compensates for myriad flaws. Your diamond was likely cut around the turn of the century without the aid of modern aids like computers. That in itself is special.

My main concern going forward if you decide this is a good stone for you -- and all I personally hope for with consumers on PS is that they make informed decisions about their choices, which you are doing -- is that this diamond will not fare well n an enclosed bezel mounting :blackeye: The leakage under the table will get much darker in an enclosed mount, making the stone quite dark. It will look better in a mount like it is n presently that allows light to enter the bottom sides, and where seeing through the diamond, which is what leakage really is, let's you see light and air not the dank dark of an enclosed bezel. So, I am not sure if this diamond is best for ye munt you like even at this price.

Have you considered a coloured gemstone for your lovely setting?

ETA if it helps at all, high end jewellers like SINGLE STONE in LA sell diamonds with much worse cuts than this all the time! And set them in10k mounts to boot. Check out their FB page to see what I mean. So there is no shame in sporting a more...wonky funky old cut if you are ok with its flaws. It isn't my cup of tea, but it might be yours!
 

Hera

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,405
I would send it back, you can do better. Be patient and I'm sure that something with a better cut will come along :) This size is quite plentiful on ebay.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
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6,306
I am no diamond expert (or even close), and therefore cannot really comment on your stone in terms of "good cut/bad cut". But, if you decide not to keep it, check back with Erica of LAD. I think she got some OECs around this size recently that are loose. She might have or know of something that can work for you in your budget. Good luck which eve route you decide. :)
 

ooo~Shiney!

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
1,501
Gemfix has lots of pretty Montana sapphires, have you looked?
Just throwing another option out there....
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
Dreamer- I am quite strongly considering keeping this diamond. As I said it's perfect 95% of the time, and that's good enough for me. I love the history of old cuts and am aware access to tools to help diamond cutting weren't available, so flexibility is needed in terms of getting a powerful diamond. Amazing if I could get some money back from the setting. I'm sad to hear the stone won't suit an enclosed bezel setting. I have my heart set on that setting, so I'll either have to change the diamond, or reconsider the setting.

Would a setting like this be a better option perhaps?
image_1976.jpg

I have considered a coloured gemstone like a sapphire, but I am only considering a diamond at this stage. I can be flexible with my budget it's not too, too strict. It's more the effort and time which is bothering me at the moment.

JoCoJenn - I have been in contact with LAD, however Erica advised she didn't have any suitable stones at the moment. JBG was the same. Old world diamonds haven't replied to my email sent 2 weeks ago.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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distracts

Ideal_Rock
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I'd call OWD if you're in a timezone where that's feasible. I've emailed them before with no reply too.
 

OECsareforLovers

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
254
Are there any jewelry stores that sell estate pieces, or antique jewelry stores in your local area? Most of the mom and pop jewelery stores in my town have estate pieces and at least a couple old cuts. I think you should try to get your eyes on a few other stones, even if they are different sizes, just so you can compare the cut of your ebay stone to others.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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distracts|1405189906|3712107 said:
I'd call OWD if you're in a timezone where that's feasible. I've emailed them before with no reply too.

Ditto! I missed out on a great buy waiting for an email response. I wish I had called when I first saw the diamond vs sending an email. :wall:

Definitely call ... Or adjust your schedule to call while they are available if necessary. They have a lot of beautiful old cuts with loads of character. :love:
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
Thanks JoCoJenn, nice find. I've emailed the loupetroop seller, hopefully more photos or videos will give me an idea if that is a better stone.

OECsareforlovers: Jewellery stores are very very expensive where I live. The local stores which do stock estate jewellery are still very pricey.

Distracts: Good to know. I will give OWD a call :)
 

OECsareforLovers

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
254
umbrella|1405228419|3712349 said:
Thanks JoCoJenn, nice find. I've emailed the loupetroop seller, hopefully more photos or videos will give me an idea if that is a better stone.

OECsareforlovers: Jewellery stores are very very expensive where I live. The local stores which do stock estate jewellery are still very pricey.

Distracts: Good to know. I will give OWD a call :)


Hi Umbrella,
I was suggesting going to local stores just to compare your stones to others, not to buy. Old cuts come in a wide range of cut quality, so the only way for you to figure out your preference (or tolerance) is to see other stones.
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
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OECsareforLovers|1405349075|3713025 said:
umbrella|1405228419|3712349 said:
Hi Umbrella,
I was suggesting going to local stores just to compare your stones to others, not to buy. Old cuts come in a wide range of cut quality, so the only way for you to figure out your preference (or tolerance) is to see other stones.

Ohh sorry I get it now. That's actually a good idea, I'll do that and see how they compare to my eBay find :) Thanks for the tip!
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Any update, umbrella? Did you make a decision on keeping your ebay find?
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
Hi JoCoJenn. Thanks for thinking of me! I've been on vacation for the last several days so I've been painstainkingly looking at photos of my diamond and other OECs on pricescope and google. I think I've decided I won't keep the ring. It is a gorgeous little stone, but I think the darker centre will bother me over time. I'm not very good at spending money on myself, hence me being a bit, shall me say frugal, with my diamond budget. But I'm coming to the realization that you get what you pay for. Even if I spend $2000-3000 on an OEC online, I'll still be saving thousands of dollars in comparison to buying the stone in a B&M store in Australia. This is also probably one of the only times I can really indulge in something for myself (or be indulged) and which is of a particular interest to me.

So while the diamond issue is a little out of my hands at the moment, I've been occupying myself poolside looking at Art Deco inspired settings. My indecisiveness is driving me nuts! I thought I had my mind set on a setting from a store, but I'm now thinking it's a little too unique and out there for my rather simple taste. I don't want to tire of the ring over decades!

Does everyone else face this crazy indecisiveness? :wall:
 

-B-

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
14
You are not alone umbrella. I spend a huge amount of time moving stuff in and out of virtual shopping baskets!
Being in Oz is tough - we just don't have the same sort of selection (particularly of OEC) here as those in the US do.
I think you need to go with your heart - I'm not sure how much time you have, but maybe try again with those online stores that were suggested in your original post? I'm sure your perfect diamond is out there...
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
-B-|1405849327|3716964 said:
You are not alone umbrella.

I think you need to go with your heart -

I'm sure your perfect diamond is out there...

Thanks B! I think those words of encouragement are exactly what I needed to hear. I will return the ring (I wonder how much a pawn shop would offer for it?) and will continue my search for the perfect diamond. I'm a very visual and hands on person, and it's so difficult living in Aus, unable to view these antique beauties in person.

I will continue keeping in contact with Grace and Erica. Hopefully something comes up! I am not in any rush, but I just want to be engaged already and we need a ring for that!! ;-)
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
Thought I'd update if anyone was interested. I ended up selling the ring to a B&M Antique jewellery store which offered me $1200 for it. So I came out with a $500 profit :appl:

I've decided to go with an August Vintage Round, which I am yet to find the perfect one for me, but I'm hoping one comes up!
 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,560
umbrella|1410525687|3749648 said:
Thought I'd update if anyone was interested. I ended up selling the ring to a B&M Antique jewellery store which offered me $1200 for it. So I came out with a $500 profit :appl:

How great!!
 

Bling it on

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
81
Umbrella - I can see you are wanting to purchase an AVR, but while you are waiting can I recommend you take a look at this Ebay vendor MyDiamondZone? http://stores.ebay.com.au/mydiamondzone

They have a lovely selection on OECs and transitional cut diamonds for great prices too. You can request videos of diamonds you like and they are honest about how each diamond performs. I found them through PS research and they have a good reputation
 

umbrella

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
88
becleeham|1410532918|3749715 said:
Umbrella - I can see you are wanting to purchase an AVR, but while you are waiting can I recommend you take a look at this Ebay vendor MyDiamondZone? http://stores.ebay.com.au/mydiamondzone

That's very kind of you to share becleeham. I had a quick look but nothing quite grabbed me. I've sadly come to a point where I've reached my limit of searching for an OEC. I can trust that AVR's will have wonderful performance and because of that I am pretty set on getting one :)
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,786
I think the chances of coming across a preloved AVR are limited there are very few that come up for sale. I'd recommend signing up for the newsletters that Grace and Erica both put out so that way you can have first peak at new stones they get in, they handpick most of their stock so the chances of you getting something bad is highly unlikely.

Either go down in colour to purchase an AVR or keep saving for one with the specs you want, or I would recommend shopping at more reliable vendors (other than ebay) where you know they have decent well cut OECs.

Victor also has a small number of stones like AVRS;

http://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds

Diamonds by Lauren occasionally have lower coloured very nice European cuts;

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-104ct-n-si2-old-european-brilliant-gia-phenomenal-stone-r5849

And Adam from Old World Diamonds also has a stash of nice European cuts in all sizes but you will need to phone him as he is slow to respond via email.

Also email Good Old Gold and see what they are cutting, that might give you first preference if they are getting any new batches of stones in.
 
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