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Should I keep this 2.4ct OEC?

kiwiOEC

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Aug 17, 2016
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I'm in the process of an e-ring upgrade, and happened across Pricescope.... well next thing I am spending hours and hours reading past threads!! We live in New Zealand, and over here OECs are very uncommon, and largely regarded as inferior. After seeing various OECs on PS I have just fallen in love with them so decided I had to have one for my upgrade. I've got this one secured, and just needing some advice on it:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-41ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-i-vs2#.V7UQN5N95E4

We are coming to NYC for a vacation in September, so I'm going to have the stone shipped to me there to avoid taxes and duty in New Zealand, and will also have the stone set in NYC (I've chosen Valmanin's setting from Brilliantly Engaged and have been in touch with Mark to make sure he will have time to set it for me). Grace was unable to hold the stone for that long which I totally understand, and I didn't want to risk losing it by waiting until we arrived to purchase it in case it was gone. The problem is though that once we arrive in NYC the stone will already be outside of the return timeframe, so i'll be stuck with it if I don't like it! Having never seen a decent OEC in person before, and nowhere in new zealand to see one before we go, this really will be a leap of faith purchase.

To try and mitigate the risks I had the stone sent to Neil Beatty for appraisal. He said it's a nice stone, very round, and on the J side of I instead of the H side. I'm not concerned about the clarity or condition of the stone as both seem to be fine. He said the stone is quite spready and has good light return and sparkle but not great fire and not a lot of contrast.

Here are the specs:

Carat Weight: 2.41 Carats
Clarity: VS1 Color: I
Dimensions: 8.71 x 8.78 x 5.10mm.
Table: 49%
Depth: 58.4%
Crown: 35.0
Pavilion: 38.4
Girdle: thin - medium faceted
Fluorescence: none
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Culet sl large.
Cut Grade: Good GIA

Neil felt the stone could be a modern reproduction of an OEC due to the faceted girdle, very good polish and round shape.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to post a picture of the ASET sorry, but there was no leakage. The colours were quite a random pattern of light red, light blue and light green (mainly red in the centre, red and green around the edges, and a bit of blue randomly interpersed through).

My concerns are mainly that the stone will:

1) be too tinted for me at an I - Grace said it faces up white, but worried that her meaning of this may be different to mine? I want to look down at my hand and see a white diamond, not yellow. The videos on the JBG site might give you a good idea of the colour.

2) not be a good performer - I'm not sure how important the 'fire' is, or if good light return is enough?

I love the size of the stone, and have checked with GOG and OWD and for the same kind of price I'd be looking at more like a 2 - 2.2ct with them, still an I colour. To go H I'd have to go down a lot in size.

I don't wan't to cut off my nose to spite my face here, so I don't want to let this diamond slip away if in all reality I would have found it white and sparkly! I don't need 100% perfect stats, just a nice big white facing sparkly stone!

Thoughts? I have 3 days to decide and I've just about driven my husband crazy asking him so I'm now turning to you! Thank you!
 

Queenie60

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If you are unsure about the stone - I would suggest that you let it go. There are many out there and since you will be in NYC I would suggest you contact Adam at Old World Diamonds - have him pull stones that meet your criteria and I am sure that he could find something very beautiful for you - to your liking. It's a lot of money to spend when you are not 100% sure. Another stone will come along. Good luck. :wavey:
 

kiwiOEC

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Aug 17, 2016
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aset_84.jpg

Hopefully the above link will show the ASET, otherwise I still have no clue how to post images :wall:

Thanks Queenie for the advice - we're only in NYC for a few days and plan to be sightseeing a lot so I'm very conscious of wasting my husband and 3 kids time by spending a lot of the time searching for a diamond if this one is a good one. If this one will work for me then that would be ideal!
 

diamondseeker2006

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My guess is that it is an old stone that had a little rehab. Perhaps it had some tiny girdle chips that were polished out with the faceted girdle. I think it has a really pretty facet pattern and I am particular about cut. You seem the most uncertain about color. I am going to have to say that I can tolerate a little more tint in an antique cut stone than modern. My I color diamond is as white as can be outside in natural light, but indoors with my beige walls and in my car with tinted windows, the tint bothers me more. Color is extremely personal, and while we can tell you our opinions, I don't think anything can substitute for seeing a diamond in person in various lighting. You are in a predicament due to the timing of your trip. While I would hate to miss out on a potentially nice stone, I know I could not personally buy an antique diamond (and many diamonds) without seeing it within the return period. Some people look at many OECs before settling on a size, cut, and color that pleases them the most. However, you could be lucky and find the perfect one on your first try, too. A lot depends on the financial risk you are willing to take if you decide the color is lower than you want and then consign it to resell. You'd also have a setting made that you'd have to find another stone about the same size to fit. Hard decision!
 

LLJsmom

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Diamondseeker is right. Color is very personal. I went from an F MRB to a K OEC. I've talked about my feelings on the color change it in a bunch of threads. I did have an I OEC, which I exchanged for a K, which had better faceting. I do miss the whiteness of the I (and for an OEC, it was really, really white), but I think with an I, the contrast would not be as extreme, therefore losing the pastels of that I love in an OEC.

In the end, I think you would have to see it in person, unless they will take more videos for you, in different rooms, in different lights, with different walls, indoor, outdoor, sunny days, overcast days. You get the picture. I've had mine now for over 3 months, and I am still getting to know it.

In this thread, I posted a lot of pictures of my K, VS1 in various environments and lighting. Maybe this will help.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/caught-the-oec-bug-looking-for-advice.224692/

Also, another thought is that color is almost secondary, I've discovered, with an OEC. What I mean is that when you have a very lively stone, your eye just chases the flashes across your stone, and those flashes are the first thing your eye notices, rather than the color. Because the facets are so much bigger than MRBs, one color doesn't really cover (or dominate) the whole stone, if you know what I mean. With the constant on/off of the flashing, you don't see a constant color across your stone, the way you do with an MRB. Does that make sense?

Heck, here is my thread. Check out the videos on page 4 and 5.
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/sh...-k-vs1-early-20th-anniversary-t223129-90.html

I hope this will help. I have struggled with the color question a lot myself, a self-professed color snob going trading in an F for a K. What has the world come to?? :lol:
 

kiwiOEC

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Hi diamondseeker, thanks for your input. You're right that colour is my main concern - from the videos on JBG the diamond certainly looks bright and white and sparkly. I'm just worried that once I'm inside etc that I will notice too much tint, but I guess no-one can really answer that for me! My original e-ring is a 1 ct F princess cut, but I haven't actually worn it for about 3 years as it needed resizing and I didn't get around to it due to the babies (!). So I'm not sure if I'd be comparing it too much to the princess cut really. I've had a good look at all of your photos of your beautiful I AVR, and it definitely looks beautiful and white to me. Don't suppose you can post a photo of what it looks like inside your house when you notice the tint? Is it so noticeable that anyone is likely to assume you have a champagne coloured diamond instead of white? I don't want anyone to think i've got a weird coloured diamond if you know what I mean!
This diamond has such a great spread and I do the love the faceting pattern, and I really don't have too much time in NYC to search for another OEC - I guess I'm also worried as this one seems a fair price (I'm paying less than the listed price) and my intitial emails with OWD and GOG seem to suggest for the same price I'd be looking at more like a 2ct or 2.2ct I VS2, which might seem quite a bit smaller than this one given it's great spread.
Sorry, I'm rambling on! :confused:
 

kiwiOEC

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LLJsmom - thank you so much for those links and for your input too. I get what you mean about colour being very personal - I think I'm finding it so hard because here in New Zealand it's quite uncommon to find 2+ ct diamonds, let alone OECs! So it's not like I can just walk into a local jeweller and try on a bunch of rings in various colours and find my tolerance (especially as they would be MRBs not OECs).

Interesting what you said about the colour being secondary - I totally get what you mean and I guess that is definitely something I need to take into consideration. From the videos on the JBG site, in your opinion is this a lively stone? I'm not really sure if I'm a good judge of that since I haven't seen a large OEC in person.

I guess I'm also wanting reasurrance that this particular diamond is a good one and not just average?
And I love your OEC by the way, sooooo stunning :love:
 

LLJsmom

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The faceting is really pretty, and I like it in the one video it is on her hand in the temp mounting.

Can you ask them to provide a video of it indoors just sitting on the back of their hand? ASk them about the lighting in the indoor room. I do think it is a very pretty stone. I think more videos indoors will confirm it. As for color, for me, and "I" would be more than white enough.
 

kiwiOEC

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Thanks for the ideas LLJsmom, the stone is still with the appraiser so not sure if the indoor videos will be possible within my return timeframe (3 days), but I'll ask. I really wish I could see this stone in person before deciding!
 

edelweissmaedl

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kiwiOEC - it's still all objective but I am sharing this picture in hopes it will help you as well. The top stone is L color and similar in size to what you are considering. The bottom one is I color.

I was tempted by size to keep the larger 'L' stone and in certain light it looked whiter, but there were enough instances where it looked creamy/ivory and although it never looked yellow, I wanted brighter contrast with my skin. I feel this photo is a true reflection of how I saw the stone through my eyes when it didn't look so white.

The I on the other hand is very bright and definitely white. I own an I color cushion and previously owned and H color cushion. I do feel the I color OEC faces up whiter that my I color cushion and from the side they look pretty equal.

I would echo what LLJsmom said about getting to know the stone. My H cushion was just over a 1 ct and getting to know my 1.5ct cushion also took time.....at first I semi-freaked out as I thought it was a lot more yellow (especially in the car), but really the bigger stone just picked up more colors from the environment. A 2.4 ct OEC is definitely going to pick up all these colors from surroundings as it twinkles.

oec_l_i.jpg
 

jaaron

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I was in a very similar situation, in that I'm in the UK and bought an OEC from the U.S. In the end, I did decide to have it shipped to me and swallowed the VAT. Is there an option to have the taxes and duty refunded in NZ if you return the stone?

I don't know if this will help, but I'll share the end result of my agonising. My original engagement ring is a 2.75 F Tiffany cushion, and one of the reasons I wanted to make a change was that I didn't love walking around with something so valuable on my hand and almost never wore it. So right at the outset, I knew I wanted to limit the spend to something I could wear with pleasure rather than worry (that plus the fact that in poring over Pricescope I fell completely in love with OECs).

I was kind of worried about going from an F to a lower colour and I also knew I wanted to have it set in a VC Emilya, so I was also concerned about the contrast, and I also didn't want a yellow or champagne look. I looked at a bunch of diamonds, and in the end, kept coming away with the feeling that everything I liked about OECs--the chunky, flowery facts, the flashes of colour--was more apparent to me in the lower colours. Through Erica at LAD, I ended up finding the combination of cut, size and price that hit the sweet spot--what surprised me at the time, was that I loved the (white-facing) M. Granted, it's set in a way that means I basically never see the side view (which might or might not bother me), but when I look at it, I never see yellow.

In photographs and in some light I see a little contrast with the single cut melee (which I think is F/G? or G/H?), but mostly in real life, I just see movement and flashes of pastel colour and chunky facets--when I do see tint, it looks more silvery or creamy than yellow. The only time I see yellow, is in a windowless, yellow bathroom at a friend's house and occasionally on an overcast day in the car (and honestly, my Tiffany F wasn't stellar under those conditions either). I seriously never feel like I wish I had gone for a whiter stone. Funnily enough, I get tons of comments on it, and one of the things people mention is how white it is :lol: I think they're often reacting to the fact that it reflects a lot of pastel colours.

A couple of bad iPhone pics -the first is taken in a yellow room, although not the windowless bathroom.

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mae_s.png
 

jaaron

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Sorry those were so huge- a more normal perspective - please excuse the nails- closing the beach house for the summer.

normalperspedtive.png
 

kiwiOEC

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edelweissmaedl and jaaron - thank you so much for your advice, and also for the photos - seeing OECs of different colours on different hands / lighting etc really helps me to start to get more of an idea. Your I edelweissmaedl is just lovely, as is your M jaaron :love: - I'm sure that I would also love my I in person, it's just so hard to make such a large purchase based on internet photos and videos alone. Thank you both for taking the time to post those photos and your experience with OECs of different colours :twirl:
 

kiwiOEC

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Jaaron - your M looks so white to my eyes too! That's why I'm so worried about passing this I up when in all reality it probably is perfectly white enough for me. I've looked into the taxes issues here and it seems that it's unlikely that they would be refunded if I returned the stone, so seems a shame to risk that, especially since we are heading to the States in a month anyway. Arghh so hard to know what to do, but I have to keep reminding myself I'm fortunate to have such a problem!
 

Mayk

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I have a 2.67 J I purchased from Grace. It faces up very white. I Wouldn't hesitate in an I. But I also own a K emerald cut so I'mless color sensitive.

_5374.jpeg

_5375.jpeg
 

missy

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As much as you think you might love the stone from the videos and photos I think it might be a mistake to buy it sight unseen with no possibility to return. Color is too personal and even in an old cut stone I think you really need to not just see it in person but see it in all different types of environments in real life to get a handle on if you love it enough to purchase the diamond. You can have all the videos and photos sent to you but I think seeing it IRL is critical. Each stone is different and the color looks different IRL too and only by seeing it in person can you tell if you will love it or not. I would not take the risk since you would be outside the return period. I'm sorry because I know you are worried about missing out and I get that but it could be an expensive mistake.
 

acaw2015

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missy|1471599948|4067613 said:
As much as you think you might love the stone from the videos and photos I think it might be a mistake to buy it sight unseen with no possibility to return. Color is too personal and even in an old cut stone I think you really need to not just see it in person but see it in all different types of environments in real life to get a handle on if you love it enough to purchase the diamond. You can have all the videos and photos sent to you but I think seeing it IRL is critical. Each stone is different and the color looks different IRL too and only by seeing it in person can you tell if you will love it or not. I would not take the risk since you would be outside the return period. I'm sorry because I know you are worried about missing out and I get that but it could be an expensive mistake.
+1
 

kiwiOEC

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Mayk - thank you for the comparison shots - love love love your J! Looks gorgeous and I can see why you're very happy with it :love:
 

kiwiOEC

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missy and aca - I get what you're saying, I really do. That's what's holding me back from going full steam ahead as I'm just so worried about opening the box when we arrive in NYC and being surprised in a negative way colour-wise. Thanks for your thoughts :twirl:
 

diamondseeker2006

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kiwi, ironically my original diamond ring was a 1 ct F color round! Seems like many of us have gone down in color and up in size!

I actually have a couple of indoor pictures from when I sent for a few AVRs before deciding! Yes, I knew their cut would be great, but I didn't know my size and color tolerance. I very rarely see pictures posted on this forum that accurately show color. It really has to be seen with the eye. That said, I color is high in the world of OECs. You aren't going to see many OECs over two carats in a higher color than I unless it is a branded piece such as Cartier or Tiffany, etc. I color is white enough for me most of the time. It certainly throws off pastels beautifully because of the cut. I will tell you that the first stone I loved was a really low I color that I did return. I still ended up with an I color, but it was larger and not as tinted as the first one.

In the first picture, there is a G mrb with the low I color AVR on the front porch.

Second picture are three AVRs, G, J, and I color inside without direct light on them.

avr8_img_3.jpg

img_0211_3.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

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I don't think you would feel anything negative upon opening the box, because the beautiful facet pattern is what will catch your eye the most. It's more when my diamond is tilted a bit do I notice the color in environments where it reflects tint more. It might take some getting used to, also. When it came down to it, I color was the highest color I had to choose from, and I think I saw 4 stones that were I color. You will likely learn to love it as the rest of us have. I didn't think LLJsmom would be happy going from a 2+ ct F to a K, but she is! It's really the whole package, though, cut, color, and size. If you get a beautifully cut one, the color matters less. But you might have to adjust to it a little!

I guess in one way I am trying to encourage you on this particular stone, but on the other hand, it concerns me a little that you are buying one when you haven't seen a few to compare it to.

No, no one would think my diamond is champagne color unless maybe they first saw it in the car from the side. Just know most of us see more tint in the car when windows are tinted. Mine are apparently tinted with a slight smoky brownish tint, and my diamond definitely absorbs that color. My diamond is bright and white outdoors and it is most fabulous in stores with overhead halogen lighting! I am changing my bathroom lights to halogen when the current bulbs burn out so I can enjoy the sparkle and colors that halogen lighting bring out in diamonds!

Oh, and I have also bought another antique stone that is K color. So even color sensitive people can adjust when the stone itself it beautiful! I do think people may notice the tint in this one more, though. But it will be such an unusual ring (hopefully beautiful) that I don't think the color would be a negative.
 

jaaron

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I know what you mean about it being a fortunate problem to have -I definitely felt that way. But buying a diamond, sight unseen, is scary. Even with a lower coloured OEC, it's still a big purchase, and since it's something you are hopefully going to be looking down at every day for a long time, you have to love it. For that reason, I would say you should probably wait and ask Adam at OWD to have a bunch of stones for you to look at when you're there. And, of course, there's always a chance that Grace's stone will still be available then.

There is a thread somewhere on pricescope where people have posted pictures of OECs and, specifically lower coloured ones. Have you seen that? If I have a bit more time later, I'll try to find it and bump it.

I'm not sure how many OECs you've seen irl, but I personally--others might disagree--find that in some ways OECs with similar statistics tend to vary more than MRBs with similar stats. I've also found that I can get a better sense of what an MRB looks like from a picture than I can with an OEC. I can say that when I look at a picture of my ring, it looks totally different than it does in reality, I think because that's one moment in time, when really they're constantly changing. Even if I hold my hand still and look at it, the facets are never completely shut off. And when I put my OEC next to my D coloured MRB earrings, while I can see a definite colour differential, it is literally like looking at apples and oranges- just totally different things.
 

LLJsmom

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jaaron|1471623518|4067700 said:
I know what you mean about it being a fortunate problem to have -I definitely felt that way. But buying a diamond, sight unseen, is scary. Even with a lower coloured OEC, it's still a big purchase, and since it's something you are hopefully going to be looking down at every day for a long time, you have to love it. For that reason, I would say you should probably wait and ask Adam at OWD to have a bunch of stones for you to look at when you're there. And, of course, there's always a chance that Grace's stone will still be available then.

There is a thread somewhere on pricescope where people have posted pictures of OECs and, specifically lower coloured ones. Have you seen that? If I have a bit more time later, I'll try to find it and bump it.

I'm not sure how many OECs you've seen irl, but I personally--others might disagree--find that in some ways OECs with similar statistics tend to vary more than MRBs with similar stats. I've also found that I can get a better sense of what an MRB looks like from a picture than I can with an OEC. I can say that when I look at a picture of my ring, it looks totally different than it does in reality, I think because that's one moment in time, when really they're constantly changing. Even if I hold my hand still and look at it, the facets are never completely shut off. And when I put my OEC next to my D coloured MRB earrings, while I can see a definite colour differential, it is literally like looking at apples and oranges- just totally different things.
So true!! Missy and I looked at my 3.04 K and another 3.10 L. Both were very beautifully cut, but had different faceting patterns. She preferred the L and I liked the K more. Not too long after I bought the K, another PSer bought the L. I knew it would not be on the market long. So you do have to see it for yourself.

I'm more concerned about thre sparkle factor. The color would not worry me at all.
 

anne_h

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Is it a GIA I? If so, one thing I found in my own quest for an antique stone in 2011 (see avatar) was there was not a lot of higher-color antique stones on the market.

I find my stone absolutely white enough, for my tastes.

I can sympathize about shopping for US stones by distance... I'm not in the USA either and had to make a special trip to NYC to view my shortlisted stones in person.

Anne

PS - I've purchased from Grace before and she is wonderful to work with.
 

kiwiOEC

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Diamondseeker - thank you so much for those photos! I can definitely see tint in the I in the photos and I have a feeling that that much tint would bother me. On the other hand the faceting is so beautiful and different to what I usually see in diamonds so it may not bother me IRL. I didn't really think there would be much variation amongst I's, but clearly there is, and I guess that's what's got me spooked since Neil said this one is on the J edge of I instead of the H edge like I was hoping. I do appreciate that higher than I in larger OECs is less common to find, and I suspect they'd be right out of my price range too! ;(

I think you're right when you say it might take a bit of getting used to as well, I just would hate to never get used to it! I've asked around at the main OEC vendors and they've all indicated that I'd be looking at 2-2.2ct I VS2s in my price range, so Grace's stone is a great size and colour for the price (which I suppose is also what's causing such consternation as I know if I pass on it I'd then have to take a hit in size). They've also indicated that H stones would be a big price jump, so if I decided I colour is not for me, then I'd be taking a major size hit if I wanted H.

Thanks also for clearing that up about the champagne colour - that's good to hear. I suspect I'm really blowing this whole 'is I too yellow' thing out of proportion, and most likely would think an I looks like any white diamond! I suppose I could also change out all my lights to halogen too haha! My husband thinks I'm mad enough with all my questions etc re this diamond, so I can imagine his reaction to that! :wall:

You know, the thing that first drew me to the OECs were the beautiful pastel reflections in the faceting, and I think I need to stop and remember that. Thank you for indulging all my questions :wavey:
 

kiwiOEC

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Jaaron - you're right, it is really scary, especially given the size of the purchase (for us anyway!). I've been in touch with Adam last week and he showed me a video of a 2.2 I VS2 that looked beautiful, but it was the same price as Grace's for a lot smaller size (dimension
Wise). But yes I agree if I decide to wait to see stones in person then OWD will be the place I head to.

Yes I have seen that thread thank you, I feel I have spent hours and hours looking at photos of various colour OECs in various lighting, and it is really helpful! But I'm definitely worried as a few people now have mentioned that the colour can look quite different IRL compared to the computer so that's a worry.

I've actually only seen one OEC in real life, and that was a terrible 1 ct that wasn't graded, and it was extremely dull and yellowy. But here in New Zealand they are incredibly rare to come across, and you really only see them in antique auctions and that's once in a blue moon. I've asked a few jewellers here about them and they really talk down about them and say they are a really bad choice! :errrr: I've got that sense from reading threads etc that OECs area really personal thing, and that they can be very different IRL to what you're expecting from photos.

Thank you for your advice and opinions, it's definitely all helping me to come to a decision! :wavey:
 

kiwiOEC

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LLJsmom - wow I think I might really be underestimating how I may feel about different OECs even without the colour factored in! Although I think it's probably best that I don't start down the path of trying to compare heaps as I don't have the time to do that while we're in NYC! I hope that since I haven't seen any larger OECs in real life, that Grace's one would wow me as I have nothing to compare it to- or does that sound crazy?! :wall:
 

kiwiOEC

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And yes that's true about the sparkle factor - I guess that's one other thing I'm unsure about as Neil thought this stone was sparkly but not especially fiery - not entirely sure what that means and if that matters but definitely something I need to bear in mind
 

kiwiOEC

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Anne - thank you for your advice - I took a look at your past threads and just love your ring, it's gorgeous! :love:

It definitely is a whole new ballgame trying to source / buy from overseas - I would dearly love for this stone with Grace to be the one as I really can't be bothered spending our precious sightseeing time in NYC looking for diamonds. We're travelling with our 3 young kids and another family too so I'm really conscious of wasting everyone's time, or missing out on fun stuff with them while I'm searching for diamonds. But of course I also don't want to make a costly mistake. I'm sure if I took a 5 minute look at it IRL I would know for sure instantly!
 

kiwiOEC

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Also thank you to everyone who has posted so far for indulging me in this probably very frustrating question! :clap:
 
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    Vintage OEC Bracelet

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