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Shallow crown angle and height

KobiD

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First post here.

I've done a load of reading and searching and am aware that most suggest selecting an Excellent/ideal cut as priority for most bling. Obviously when working within budgets/constraints you always need to make sacrifices and while most would probably suggest droppng a colour range or some size, if you can't due to side stones being a certain colour and someones heart being set on a particular size, then you really have cut grade and clarity left to work with.

So if sacrificing from a cut grade of excellent back to very good, where/what would be considered the best places to sacrifice?

Looking at the GIA grading table and comparing HCA scores, its entirely possible to still get a good HCA score on a very good cut. For example, any crown angles less than 31.5 are unable to achieve the GIA excellent status, but thats not to say that a diamond with a large table, and shallow crown angle (say 28.5 degrees) can't get a great HCA score as a BIC.

What effects would one expect to see with a shallow crown?

Example below
.67 H VS2 VG
VG sym and polish
57% Depth
60% Table
28.5C (11%)
41.2P (43.5%)
50% star
80% lowerhalf
thin - medium girdle (3%)

GIA Graded VG, HCA 2.2 at the BIC end of the spectrum.

Obviously this diamond isn't cream of the crop, but what would you expect to pay for something around these stats, and would it make a visually appealing rock to the naked eye.

Thoughts?
 

Dancing Fire

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KobiD|1417752883|3795489 said:
What effects would one expect to see with a shallow crown?

Example below
.67 H VS2 VG
VG sym and polish
57% Depth
60% Table
28.5C (11%)
41.2P (43.5%)
50% star
80% lowerhalf
thin - medium girdle (3%)
I have never seen a flat top diamond with good performance. This is a pancake diamond.. :knockout:
 

John P

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KobiD|1417752883|3795489 said:
57% Depth
60% Table
28.5C (11%)
41.2P (43.5%)
50% star
80% lowerhalf
thin - medium girdle (3%)
GIA VG (as you said). Predicted AGS 4 in light performance. Positives are spread and central brightness. Negatives are low dispersion & colored sparkle. In my view cut deficiencies like this should result in a 30-40% discount from robustly cut diamonds of same carat, color & clarity.
 

JulieN

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You are going to increase your chipping risk with a CA below 30.
 

John P

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JulieN|1417758120|3795527 said:
You are going to increase your chipping risk with a CA below 30.
GIA stopped putting that warning on reports when the shallow CA was combined with a girdle of sufficient thickness... But I'm inclined to quietly agree with you.
 

KobiD

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Thanks for the feedback.

Have also read regards increased chipping risk with reduced angles, but thought it was mostly when combined with very thin girdles. I have no issue admitting I have very little experiene with diamonds and everything I've taken on is only in the last few days. Seems to be a lot to it all and very much a science (to which my mind has no worries running off with, understanding, and sourcing the perfect diamond).

I have no issues understanding and seeing the differences between light performance both in regards to GIA and AGS scores, and under certain lighting conditions. How is this reflected to the naked eye in every day light though? While the perfectionist in me would seek an ideal.. to the layman is there noteable difference in performance?

Would this stone be suitable for a central diamond coupled with side stones if it could be sourced at the right price?
 

diamondseeker2006

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Please go for an excellent cut stone. I wouldn't consider that stone even at a discount (unless it was a recut candidate, and it probably isn't). I do not find flat top diamonds to be attractive, especially in the profile view. Chipping risk is real, too. Diamond rings hit against things and on occasion are dropped. I'd rather have a smaller well cut stone than a larger one that is not.
 

Gypsy

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What you need to know:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones. Make sure to keep the crown over 34, the pavilion 41 and under and the depth at 62.4 and above.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.
 

John P

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KobiD|1417759478|3795535 said:
How is this reflected to the naked eye in every day light though?
There are an infinite panorama of lighting environments. Every person has different circumstances. If you live in a jewelry store 24/7 and are constantly surrounded by high/bright spotlighting, designed to make any gemstone look its best, you need not worry about cut that looks good in softer conditions... If you're a night-owl, walking around where the diamond has to seek light, you'd better find one that exaggerates all available illumination... Most people's circumstances are somewhere between the extremes.

So the quality of your diamond's cut, and its performance through an infinite panorama of illumination scenarios, is up to you. I always point out that it costs less to spring for top cut quality (the most influential factor on diamond beauty) than any other top C.
 

KobiD

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Thanks John, appreciate the advice.

Gypsy. I think you are missing what I'm asking. I'm aware whats involved in selecting a great diamond in terms of light reflection. I am bedazled by whats involved and having a technical mind I think I'm more 'into it' than I thought I would be when I started reading.

However, as an average joe (non enthusiast) I was questioning the effects and losses involved in picking a diamond when constrained by some selection criteria. I'm not interested in being able to say look at this rock, its this, its that, it throws flames and sparkles all day long wherever I am.

I'm happy to accept some losses and have a stone which has some character of its own, thats a little outside the square... without being totally lifeless.
 

Dancing Fire

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KobiD|1417763324|3795565 said:
Thanks John, appreciate the advice.

Gypsy. I think you are missing what I'm asking. I'm aware whats involved in selecting a great diamond in terms of light reflection. I am bedazled by whats involved and having a technical mind I think I'm more 'into it' than I thought I would be when I started reading.

However, as an average joe (non enthusiast) I was questioning the effects and losses involved in picking a diamond when constrained by some selection criteria. I'm not interested in being able to say look at this rock, its this, its that, it throws flames and sparkles all day long wherever I am.

I'm happy to accept some losses and have a stone which has some character of its own, thats a little outside the square... without being totally lifeless.
:errrr: I'm sure she does... :bigsmile:
 

Gypsy

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What is your goal for this purchase?

If you don't want it to sparkle and shine all day ( :?: ) then what is your goal?

Does your SO expect a diamond so you are just trying to get the most average mediocre stone you can to shut them up?

Seriously, I don't think I am the one missing something here.

So why don't you tell us what you goals are.
 

KobiD

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We've both been involved in the shopping/searching process, and without a doubt we would both like to end up with a beautiful ring that symbolizes our love for each other. Whats important is the meaning and value it holds to us, and us only. It doesn't have to be better than the Jones', and definitely doesn't have to be in the top 3% of diamonds.

I can appreciate that there are people who do want the best. That the best is a beautiful display of workmanship combined with one of mother natures treasures. I understand that by only chosing excellent cuts it also increases demand and chances of cutters deciding to go for best cut over quantity cuts. But the best comes at an expense, and regardless of what you have someone will always have bigger/better than you. Bumping the budget for the next best stone could easily be done, but where do you draw the line?

For us, we are after a visually appealing ring and diamond combination. It won't be scrutinized by us to the level that it may be by some who are in the trade. I personally think I wouldn't know the difference between a good and a very good unless told otherwise, or without seeing the figures. We know and can accept there will be light loss with a very good compared to a good.

What grade diamonds do the typical shopping centre/mall jewellers carry?

I also realise, by posting on this forum I am mainly seeking opinions and views of professionals and enthusiasts. Following the general trend of the threads its aimed at getting the very best specimen most of the time, but I personally was seeking some information on what to expect from a less than perfect stone. We don't want a lifeless lump of rock.. but we don't NEED the perfect specimen either. What grade diamonds are the side stones likely to be?
 

Dancing Fire

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KobiD|1417770802|3795614 said:
What grade diamonds do the typical shopping centre/mall jewellers carry?

I also realise, by posting on this forum I am mainly seeking opinions and views of professionals and enthusiasts. Following the general trend of the threads its aimed at getting the very best specimen most of the time, but I personally was seeking some information on what to expect from a less than perfect stone. We don't want a lifeless lump of rock.. but we don't NEED the perfect specimen either. What grade diamonds are the side stones likely to be?
Crappy.. :knockout: go to Costco and pick one that you like, done deal.
 

KobiD

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Dancing Fire|1417797152|3795771 said:
Crappy.. :knockout: go to Costco and pick one that you like, done deal.

...and over priced

In comparison a spready very good cut diamond at a competitive price point may just fit the bill.

Would it be fair to assume that the larger the diamond, the more important or visible the effect of cut quality?
 

diamondseeker2006

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If you don't care so much about getting in the top 3% that is fine. You don't have to have a hearts and arrows stone. But GIA Excellent cut is a very broad category and includes a lot of diamonds that many of us who are enthusiasts would not choose. So my advice to you is to stick with GIA Excellent cut only, and at least very good for polish and symmetry. That will save you some money and hopefully get you a stone in the top quarter in cut-quality. Within that category are what we call 60/60 stones, with around 60 table and 60 depth and those generally have more spread but at the same time not having a flat crown.
 

John P

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KobiD|1417770802|3795614 said:
We've both been involved in the shopping/searching process, and without a doubt we would both like to end up with a beautiful ring that symbolizes our love for each other. Whats important is the meaning and value it holds to us, and us only. It doesn't have to be better than the Jones', and definitely doesn't have to be in the top 3% of diamonds.
I think the advice you'll generally get here is to relax a bit on color and clarity (and weight if needed) in order to maximize the most important aspect, which is unarguably cut-quality. A diamond with the proper geometry will face-up with less color than the lab grade (which the grader assigned by viewing the diamond upside-down, through the pavilion) and edge-to-edge light return will make (example) a top-cut 0.80ct diamond to appear as large or larger than an average cut 1.00ct diamond when away from jewelry spotlights.

So, it's certainly not necessary to go for D FL branded H&A. But I would say it's prudent to consider the best cut quality you can acquire, even if you go a color/clarity grade lower to do so. Otherwise you're spending thousands for a diamond that may lack performance qualities and look small for its weight when away from bright lights.

You said:
I personally think I wouldn't know the difference between a good and a very good unless told otherwise, or without seeing the figures. We know and can accept there will be light loss with a very good compared to a good.
You might be surprised. "Good" cut quality is decidedly bad. In fact, in proportions-sets commonly manufactured by the world's primary sightholders, 85%.- of the world's RB production will receive either "Excellent" or "Very Good" in cut...Meaning you can "go-for" VG cut and only reach the 16th percentile of visual quality achievement. When I was in school a 16 wasn't very good!

Example:

The stone on the left has Ex/Ideal angles which return light from edge-to-edge.
The stone on the right has angles which would be graded "VG" by GIA.



The one on the left spreads 6.00mm (0.80ct equivalent). The one on the right spreads 6.25mm (1.00ct equivalent), so the one on the right is actually physically larger. When you hold them in bright jewelry spotlights they appear equivalent. When you take them into diffused or normal/low lighting they appear as you see them above.

I use this display-box with pros and consumers daily, to demonstrate the dramatic difference cut-quality makes. Without fail, every person sees and can appreciate the difference.

We don't want a lifeless lump of rock.. but we don't NEED the perfect specimen either.
Completely understood. At the same time, a strength of this forum is information about cut-quality that you will not receive from pedestrian stores carrying average cut... The bottom line is that it makes all of the difference in a diamond's appeal, and directly impacts its future value (that's another topic). The best thing about cut-quality for a shopper is this: While it has the most significant impact on the appearance of the diamond, it remains the least expensive "C" to step-up in.

cz-comparison-600.jpg
 

cflutist

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As always Sir John, thank you for your informative post.
And that is the main reason why I chose to commission a Cut to Order CBI diamond.

Can you please start another thread and talk about Future Value more?
Is that related to how cutting standards may change over time and become more rigorous in the future than today?

For example, Nadia Comaneci scored perfect 10s in routines that would not be competitive today?
Or men must do a quad axel to be competitive in figure skating when doubles sufficed years ago?
 

digether

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If you go down in color and clarity (I or J instead of H and SI1 or SI2 instead of VS2), you will be able to afford a much more high quality stone and it will still be beautiful and will still match your sidestones. There shouldn't be a large difference in color with sidestones if you are within 2 grades, you can always look and decide whether or not you can see the difference. My guess is that the difference in cut quality will bother her much more than the difference in color. The difference in clarity might be literally unnoticeable if it the SI1 or SI2 are eyeclean.
 

KobiD

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Side stones are F/G. At a H compromise has already been made in colour. Size could be sacrificed for cut quality, but while dropping from a shallow spread cut back to a more ideal cut the face up size will be reduced even further again. While sparkle is important, so is the geometry of the ring as a whole. The way the ring looks on her hand is equally as important as how the diamond looks.

John, in your example above, is the VG on the rhs showing nail head effect due to poor pavilion depth (too deep)? If so, while it does highlight the variations which can be seen between two differently graded diamonds, is it to say that a shallow cut will look like that? Also, the attachment is named cz-comparison. Are we comparing 2 diamonds here?

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just asking if the pavilion depth is around the 43% range, the girdle isn't huge, no visible fish eye/nail head effects, and one is willing to sacrifice some fire by reducing the crown height.. then is the VG rated shallow cut with a somewhat acceptable HCA really that bad, compared to a GIA EX which only scores a good HCA score.

Thats taking into account HCA is a rejection tool. I'd be inclined to reject the EX cut HCA good. Am I off my head?

At 28.5 Degrees its at the shallower end of the spectrum, but what if it was say in the 30-32 Degree range? Still outside EX but from what I read still very capable of being a brilliant diamond (BIC specifically).
 

JulieN

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All of these hypotheticals about angles and proportions are actually best case scenarios! In real life, when the cutter knows the stone is going to land outside of GIA EX just based on the proportions, the they are not going to care as much about girdle digging to save weight, and symmetry.

And while color matching the sides and the overall proportions is definitely something to consider, you don't want the sides to outshine the center.
 

yssie

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KobiD|1417805831|3795867 said:
Side stones are F/G. At a H compromise has already been made in colour. Size could be sacrificed for cut quality, but while dropping from a shallow spread cut back to a more ideal cut the face up size will be reduced even further again. While sparkle is important, so is the geometry of the ring as a whole. The way the ring looks on her hand is equally as important as how the diamond looks.

John, in your example above, is the VG on the rhs showing nail head effect due to poor pavilion depth (too deep)? If so, while it does highlight the variations which can be seen between two differently graded diamonds, is it to say that a shallow cut will look like that? Also, the attachment is named cz-comparison. Are we comparing 2 diamonds here?

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just asking if the pavilion depth is around the 43% range, the girdle isn't huge, no visible fish eye/nail head effects, and one is willing to sacrifice some fire by reducing the crown height.. then is the VG rated shallow cut with a somewhat acceptable HCA really that bad, compared to a GIA EX which only scores a good HCA score.

Thats taking into account HCA is a rejection tool. I'd be inclined to reject the EX cut HCA good. Am I off my head?

At 28.5 Degrees its at the shallower end of the spectrum, but what if it was say in the 30-32 Degree range? Still outside EX but from what I read still very capable of being a brilliant diamond (BIC specifically).

What mm diameter are you trying to achieve?
And can you tell us about the sides - are they RBs? How big are they? Do you have any photos or numbers?
I agree that how the ring looks as a whole is just as important as how each stone performs individually... but I think it would be wasteful not to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge the PS community fosters to help achieve this goal. You don't need to do it by yourself - in fact, you'll do far better telling us what your goals and priorities and asking for help than trying to post-process each stone with answers that may be biased toward different priorities.
 

pyramid

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Seem to remember Garry Holloway said when viewing the cz stones in boxes that John Pollard posted, that you are supposed to screw up your eyes, when you do this you really see the difference in the apparent size of the stones, even though the one on the right is bigger physically.
 

KobiD

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All advice taken and processed and since thinking and thinking and thinking, in order to achieve mind clarity I've dropped from a shallow .67H in search of something more standard.

Found a .61C I VS1 True Hearts AGS 000 (HCA 1.something) for similar price point (dropping size and colour), alas someone had put it on hold before me which was not reflected. Then moved on to find a .62C I VS1 AGS000 Ideal (HCA 2.0)

In the end while the shallow diamonds appealed to me in terms of uniqueness, being unable to see them in the flesh meant it was a big gamble on the dollars front. While the missus was aprehensive about dropping some face size and weight, we're hoping the half a mm doesn't impact too much on the overall look of the ring.

Once again, appreciate all the advice. I'm still quite interested in the shallow cuts though and think that for me something just out of the 32.5 range might be worth a go at some stage.
 

kenny

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If 2.2 is okay then how bout 2.4?
If 2.4 is okay than how bout 2.6?
If 2.6 is okay ...
etc. etc. etc. and so on.

Gotta draw a line somewhere.

HCA is a rejection tool.
Reject round scoring over 2.0.
2.2 is over 2.0, so why this thread?

In the market round is the most abundant shape, so I'd keep shopping.
Let the zillion less-informed buyers buy the rounds that score 2.1 and up.
 

John P

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cflutist said:
As always Sir John, thank you for your informative post....Can you please start another thread and talk about Future Value more?
Would that there were 25-30 hours in a day cflutist! (your premise is correct, btw).

KobiD said:
John, in your example above, is the VG on the rhs showing nail head effect due to poor pavilion depth (too deep)? If so, while it does highlight the variations which can be seen between two differently graded diamonds, is it to say that a shallow cut will look like that? Also, the attachment is named cz-comparison. Are we comparing 2 diamonds here?
The case that I carry in my pocket (and photo'd) is CZs. They're perfectly suited to the topic, though, since it's a geometrical brightness/leakage demonstration which has nothing to do with refractive index.

Regarding the right stone and nailhead; yes and no. The shortcomings are the cumulative effect of a pavilion/crown angle combo that loses light at the edges and under-center. As you intuited, this is systemic with steep-deeps... Meanwhile, a cut that's too shallow will suffer from obstruction, or too much head-shadow, which is a (dark) rose by another name. You can search and find more on obstruction if you wish - it's the shallow evil twin to steep-deep leakage.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just asking if the pavilion depth is around the 43% range, the girdle isn't huge, no visible fish eye/nail head effects, and one is willing to sacrifice some fire by reducing the crown height.. then is the VG rated shallow cut with a somewhat acceptable HCA really that bad, compared to a GIA EX which only scores a good HCA score.
You're on solid ground. The VG-shallow is absolutely the lesser of two evils, for sure. In fact GIA penalizes shallow combinations which AGS allows in their "Ideal" light performance range.

I hafta give credit where due though...
kenny said:
In the market round is the most abundant shape, so I'd keep shopping. Let the zillion less-informed buyers buy the rounds that score 2.1 and up.
It's true. And to your earlier question about commercial stores...well...they're the ones serving the zillions. You can do the math.

KobiD said:
Once again, appreciate all the advice. I'm still quite interested in the shallow cuts though and think that for me something just out of the 32.5 range might be worth a go at some stage.
That's absolutely fair. But do remember it's not a single measurement - they all work together. With a table in the 55-58 range a 40.8-41.0 average PA combined with a 32.5-33.0 CA can be extremely bright. Whenever you're looking at shallow crowns a smaller table % will help build crown height and help dispersion. I'd urge you to stay with lower halves in the high 70s... And do post candidates here. The community tends to give strong feedback.
 

KobiD

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Cheers John,

When the time comes to shop around for the shallow I most definitely will put it forward to the forum.

For this purchase I have settled on a .62C I VS1 AGS000 Ideal (scored HCA 2.0 - even though HCA isn't really a requirement with AGS grading). Came in on budget but had to give up some size, weight, and colour in exchange for better clarity and cut. Staying with the tried and true is a sure way to reduce the stress.

I could have requested ideal scopes etc, but personally I'm not too concerned about a few losses. We're already well ahead of where we began looking.

Thanks to everyone once again.
 

MelisendeDiamonds

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KobiD|1417829027|3796167 said:
Found a .61C I VS1 True Hearts AGS 000 (HCA 1.something) for similar price point (dropping size and colour), alas someone had put it on hold before me which was not reflected. Then moved on to find a .62C I VS1 AGS000 Ideal (HCA 2.0)


You know you don't have to skew your priorities and tradeoffs to what is most popular here (namely a Tolk Ideal Cut).

I would say you can stay within GIA XXX (or even AGS0000) and still choose a spready 60t/60d stone (with for example 33C 40.7P) so you get better faceup size, the premium for H&A(and possible AGS0000) optical symmetry would seem inconsistent with your budget and priorities. But you should weigh your options carefully and consider the diameter measurements of what you can get for your budget given the other 3 Cs (Cut, Color, Clarity).

Fire is only noticeable under specific lighting and viewer conditions and the differences amongst the best and the worst performers even throughout the wide GIA Excellent cut range are subtle and tend to be overstated at times.

If at all possible go see as many diamonds as you can locally in different lighting before you decide on Shallow or Ideal Tolk.
 

KobiD

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More good advice.

I feel personally I will like a shallow cut with good spread (a little out of the norm always appeals), but as you've said I'll need to spend more time searching, viewing, investigating. The learning curve has been steep (and very interesting) and at some point in the future I will most definitely chase down a shallow spread.. something towards a BIC. In the meantime, from all accounts an Ideal Tolk seems like its a safe place to start, especially when unable to inspect in person. We're well ahead of where we started. :dance: John has been invaluable with his assistance and I know more what to look for in regards to a shallow with value.
 

cflutist

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MelisendeDiamonds|1417841286|3796275 said:
KobiD|1417829027|3796167 said:
Found a .61C I VS1 True Hearts AGS 000 (HCA 1.something) for similar price point (dropping size and colour), alas someone had put it on hold before me which was not reflected. Then moved on to find a .62C I VS1 AGS000 Ideal (HCA 2.0)


You know you don't have to skew your priorities and tradeoffs to what is most popular here (namely a Tolk Ideal Cut).

I would say you can stay within GIA XXX (or even AGS0000) and still choose a spready 60t/60d stone (with for example 33C 40.7P) so you get better faceup size, the premium for H&A(and possible AGS0000) optical symmetry would seem inconsistent with your budget and priorities. But you should weigh your options carefully and consider the diameter measurements of what you can get for your budget given the other 3 Cs (Cut, Color, Clarity).

Fire is only noticeable under specific lighting and viewer conditions and the differences amongst the best and the worst performers even throughout the wide GIA Excellent cut range are subtle and tend to be overstated at times.

If at all possible go see as many diamonds as you can locally in different lighting before you decide on Shallow or Ideal Tolk.

I am not a techy like Sir John, nor am I Prosumer, but I am an educated consumer and let me tell you about what I have seen with my own eyes studying my CBI diamond for the last two days. I have seen dispersion (aka fire - the spreading of white light into its spectral hues which creates multi-colored flashes) in the following conditions/environments:

1 - in my kitchen under mixed halogen and LED lighting, and my neighbor's kitchen under halogen lighting
2 - in my bathroom under LED lighting, yes even while sitting on the throne I could see dispersion in my diamond
3 - in my dining room under natural lighting
3 - at Macys while shopping
4 - at Victoria's secret while shopping
5 - at a bar having dinner with friends (no I don't drink)
6 - at a jewelry store while attending a private function (this one was expected)
7 - in my semi-dark office at 10:40 pm while typing this post on my computer, this amazed me the most to see broad rainbow colors
8 - in my car on an overcast day
9 - in an elevator with spot lighting
10 - at the Police Department under fluorescent tube lights where I volunteer
11 - outside in the sunlight

I would say these are varied conditions in my opinion. I have another AGS0 diamond in a three stone ring that doesn't not perform like my newest diamond does. Yes, all AGS0s are not created equal, if you have seen the AGS cut charts by table size on the AGS website you can see that there is quite a large range.
 
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