Setter damaged diamond

[mdx]

These things happen, but here is the funny part.

The setter sent the stone back to us with this message.

Sorry I chipped the stone, but don’t worry I can send it to a cutter who can round it off a bit, no one will notice

Johan

 

[lumpkin]

Oh, dear.

 

[Phoenix]

Unbelievable! And worrying too.

 

[ff]

what a nightmare! The good thing though is that the setter sent that note so you have proof the setter did it.

Good luck with everything and let us know how it works out.

 

[oldminer]

I know it looks frightening, but a diamond with such a chip can be readily fixed with little weight loss or visible re-shaping. Unfortunately, you are the one about to find out all about this. At least the setter is being honest and if the stone does not look right when it has been repaired you have legal recourse to fall back on. A less honest person would have repaired it and said nothing, or hidden it under a prong and said nothing. You might then have never seen the damaged or noticed the reapir for several years.

Considering the situation, you are in the best possible position because of the honesty of the setter. I know it sounds as if I am taking sides to an extent, but I have been part of mediation of such issues and it is rather unusual to know for sure who did what and when.

I suggest you go for the repair and see how it shapes up. Good luck.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I wouldn''t be happy with a repair. If the diamond is insured, I''d want it replaced. It would always bother me.

 

[pinkrose]

Date: 10/20/2006 6:58:03 AM
Author: oldminer
At least the setter is being honest and if the stone does not look right when it has been repaired you have legal recourse to fall back on. A less honest person would have repaired it and said nothing, or hidden it under a prong and said nothing. You might then have never seen the damaged or noticed the reapir for several years.

Now thats frightening. Chipping a stone, not telling and then hiding it too.

 

[oldminer]

Oh yes, it gets far worse than this unfortunate situation. This is a big problem, but at least it is out in the open.

 

[UCLABelle]

I must admit, I would be so upset...

I guess it is good the setter told you...but having it fixed will take weight off, right? How much weight? If comes out significantly less weight, I would make him replace with a similar stone...or do you happen to have insurance?

Best of luck to you...I feel for you

and wish you the very best

 

[pinkrose]

Date: 10/20/2006 8:02:24 AM
Author: oldminer
Oh yes, it gets far worse than this unfortunate situation. This is a big problem, but at least it is out in the open.

If a chip is hidden under a prong theres no way of checking for this? is there? Does this usually happen only with thin girdles?

 

[oldminer]

Of course, one could check for nearly hidden damage, but you might miss a chip that is under a prong. I''d expect few consumers to be able to locate chips mostly hidden by a prong. It takes practice to examine a diamond and find nearly hidden blemishes. Sometimes a chip is totally hidden under a prong. This is more rare, but it does occur.

If the pring is wide and the chip is narrow and short, one might simply never see it until the prong is moved years after the accident.

Consumers are sometimes given a new ring with a concealed chip. Maybe the jeweler didn''t notice the damage. Maybe they noticed and have decided to say nothing. Who knows? We only see the results and sometimes it is months or years after the occurence. We have no real way to prove what happened and when many times.

 

[pyramid]

I think mdx is a diamond expert, so it may not be her actual diamond but a clients?

 

[pinkrose]

thanks David for that info.

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 10/20/2006 8:45:20 AM
Author: oldminer
Of course, one could check for nearly hidden damage, but you might miss a chip that is under a prong. I''d expect few consumers to be able to locate chips mostly hidden by a prong. It takes practice to examine a diamond and find nearly hidden blemishes. Sometimes a chip is totally hidden under a prong. This is more rare, but it does occur.

If the pring is wide and the chip is narrow and short, one might simply never see it until the prong is moved years after the accident.

Consumers are sometimes given a new ring with a concealed chip. Maybe the jeweler didn''t notice the damage. Maybe they noticed and have decided to say nothing. Who knows? We only see the results and sometimes it is months or years after the occurence. We have no real way to prove what happened and when many times.

I would say that this is all the more reason to get that ring appraised during the return period! An experience appraiser will see things that a consumer might miss. Even a diamond crazed consumer.

Thanks for the info oldminer.

 

[sistagrl2004]

Is it just me or does the "note" seem a little "cold". I guess it''s hard to interpret but it''s kinda like "oops, my bad, I stepped on your foot".. Wouldn''t a phone call or a face to face discussion better better?

 

[Eva17]

I think Pyramid may be right.....

If it was a cosumer, the post would probably be longer and more emotional.

 

[pyramid]

When I said I think I really meant I know that mdx is in the trade, ofcourse she could own a diamond too though that is why I said think.

 

[oldminer]

When a tradesperson admits to damaging a diamond you need to think of the situation they have put themselves in. Here they work based on a rather small fee for providing setting services without regard to the value of the stone, yet in some ways are responsible for damage. There is virtually no limit to their responsibility, but there is a very competitive limit on what they can charge to set the diamond.

For this reason, their note may seem a little impersonal and not admitting much. I would interpret this as an indication of a certain amount of fear about what the customer may do about the problem. No doubt, the setter would like to make the problem better, but does not want to buy a totally new replacement diamond. They may not even be able to afford such a purchase and they may feel that is totally unrealistic even if they can afford it.

If both parties act in a realsitic way, there may be a reasonable outcome. This happens sometimes, but many lawsuits also result from the same circumstances. The only parties that benefits from lawsuits of this size are the attorneys. (And expert witnesses!)

It is far better to settle these accidental problems than to pursue legal recourse whenever possible.

 

[mdx]

Guys luckily we are insured for this type of thing. We may however end up with the recovery which may not be so bad.

Dave We took out this special insurance as most AU settings seem to claim that there charges are so small they cannot cover these accidents, I do see their piont.

This stone is a 1.07 Square Ideal with Hearts and Arrows. These squares have 4 thick girdles; some remodeling calculations seem to suggest re-cutting into a round may be the way to go.

I may just send it over to Gary Cut Nut for an opinion as well

Will let you know how it goes.

By the way it was a diamond we sold to a client, Lucky client we only had a 1.11 as the closest replacement.

Johan

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/20/2006 6:58:03 AM
Author: oldminer
I know it looks frightening, but a diamond with such a chip can be readily fixed with little weight loss or visible re-shaping. Unfortunately, you are the one about to find out all about this. At least the setter is being honest and if the stone does not look right when it has been repaired you have legal recourse to fall back on. A less honest person would have repaired it and said nothing, or hidden it under a prong and said nothing. You might then have never seen the damaged or noticed the reapir for several years.

Considering the situation, you are in the best possible position because of the honesty of the setter. I know it sounds as if I am taking sides to an extent, but I have been part of mediation of such issues and it is rather unusual to know for sure who did what and when.

I suggest you go for the repair and see how it shapes up. Good luck.

I dunno - that looks like a square H&A type and a pretty significant corner chip - I guess it could be made round? haha

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/20/2006 4:56:47 PM
Author: mdx

Guys luckily we are insured for this type of thing. We may however end up with the recovery which may not be so bad.

Dave We took out this special insurance as most AU settings seem to claim that there charges are so small they cannot cover these accidents, I do see their piont.

This stone is a 1.07 Square Ideal with Hearts and Arrows. These squares have 4 thick girdles; some remodeling calculations seem to suggest re-cutting into a round may be the way to go.

ahhhhhhhhhaaaa!!! I nailed it!!!

I may just send it over to Gary Cut Nut for an opinion as well

Will let you know how it goes.

By the way it was a diamond we sold to a client, Lucky client we only had a 1.11 as the closest replacement.

Johan

 

[mdx]

Ha Cehrabehra

You certainly got it.

This stone also has a pretty steep crown angle and plenty of meat on the Chevron type girdle, so round could work.

On Monday when I am back at the office I will post some side views for those interested in "The Great Repair Job"

Johan

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/20/2006 10:02:18 PM
Author: mdx
Ha Cehrabehra

You certainly got it.

yay me! lol

This stone also has a pretty steep crown angle and plenty of meat on the Chevron type girdle, so round could work.

On Monday when I am back at the office I will post some side views for those interested in ''The Great Repair Job''

Johan

Yes, please do - include the info like what you''ve lost or whatever.... it''s interesting!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 10/20/2006 10:02:18 PM
Author: mdx
Ha Cehrabehra

You certainly got it.

This stone also has a pretty steep crown angle and plenty of meat on the Chevron type girdle, so round could work.

On Monday when I am back at the office I will post some side views for those interested in ''The Great Repair Job''

Johan

Please do, I find "The great Rapair job to be very interesting!!! And good for you Cehrabehra!!!

 

[etienneperret]

Be aware that many jewelers will not accept responsibility for a gemstone that gets damaged in setting. It can be a tricky process and gemstones are not all as consistent and without interior flaws as they may appear. Ask the jeweler if the gem is damaged who will be responsible.
Most diamond cutters will not accept responsibility for diamonds if they are being re-cut. If you want to be sure of who is responsible for damage make sure you have a signed agreement and the jeweler is in the position to replace your gemstone should anything happen.

 

[denverappraiser]

Jewelers in the US do not have insurance available that will cover this loss. Consumers DO. Assuming that there is a policy in place before the setting work is attempted (which is a pain to arrange), this is usually going to be a covered loss. Ask you agent for details. Jewelers Mutual offers this type of coverage and, under certain circumstances, so does Chubb. If the stone was previously mounted in a covered setting and is being reset into a new one, most policies would cover this.

Assuming that the insured submitted a decent appraisal at the time of binding that included the cut details of the stone, the company would almost certainly replace the stone in order to comply with the ‘like kind and quality’ clause. With a weak appraisal that lists only weight/clarity/color and a few dimensions or is simply based on a ‘certificate’, they could argue that a ‘repair’ would be sufficient to make the client whole again by paying a token amount for the loss in weight. This is an other fine reason to include a competent appraisal with your insurance policy. It''s not the company that gets stung by weak documentation, it''s the consumer.

Note to jewelers. Even if this loss is covered for the consumer, it is possible, and even probable that the company will come after the jeweler for restitution. Whether they get it will depend on your stated policy regarding breakage at time the job was taken in. As Etienne points out, it''s common for jewelers to not want to assume this liablility as part of their setting fees and it''s equally common for consumers to assume that you are. It''s important to clearly communicate to your customers what you are, and are not offering as part of your service.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Phoenix]

If the stone is recut, the weight may fall below 1 carat and the value would reduce significantly, right?

 

[mdx]

Date: 10/21/2006 8:58:23 AM
Author: etienneperret
Be aware that many jewelers will not accept responsibility for a gemstone that gets damaged in setting. It can be a tricky process and gemstones are not all as consistent and without interior flaws as they may appear. Ask the jeweler if the gem is damaged who will be responsible.
Most diamond cutters will not accept responsibility for diamonds if they are being re-cut. If you want to be sure of who is responsible for damage make sure you have a signed agreement and the jeweler is in the position to replace your gemstone should anything happen.

Hi Etienne
Many thanks for your concerns and good advice.

Luckily in our case we have long term associations with a number of contract cutting factories that have been cutting rough for us for many years.

We have an insurance settlement and have bought in the damaged stone as salvage for a pretty reasonable price.

It’s now a fun thing to see what we can recover,

Johan

 

[mdx]

Date: 10/21/2006 9:35:13 AM
Author: lienTN
If the stone is recut, the weight may fall below 1 carat and the value would reduce significantly, right?

Lien
The stone certainly will recut below 1crt.

Will let you know once we have redesigned the facets

Johan

 

[Cehrabehra]

Johan - how much weight was in the chip? did it bring it under 1 carat from the chip alone or ???