Oval Advice!

[oval_seeker]

Hi All! First time poster here! My boyfriend and I have recently started browsing for engagement rings. The budget is up to 15k but ideally around the 12k range.

I know I am looking for an oval shaped diamond and we have done quite a bit of research around the web as to what we should be ideally looking for in an oval. I am tall and have long fingers, size 6.5. Finger coverage is important to me!

I've narrowed it down to two options that I have been equally interested in for many months. My taste is pretty simplistic so the idea of a big juicy solitaire has always been dreamy to me. In order to get the finger coverage I think I need, we'd be looking for something around 1.75-2 carats (or something with equivalent spread), on the other hand, I would be just has happy with an oval set in a very nice, clean, dainty halo setting with a pave band. In this case, we'd be looking for something roughly around the 1.5 carat range to leave money for a nice halo.

My question is, is our budget just too tight to find a nice diamond in the size we'd need to be happy with a solitaire? I don't want to be unrealistic and put pressure on my bf to get to the magical "2 carat" range when we really don't have the budget for the right color/clarity that we need? It seems that the jump in price from a 1.5 to a 2 is huge, so are we are better off looking for a nice quality 1.4-1.5ct stone and adding a halo or will we end up roughly spending the same? The more I look around the more confused I get! Either way I am planning to set in yellow gold, will this give us a bit more room to go lower on color even for a solitaire? Are halos too trendy? Will I regret going with this style?

One final question, my boyfriend has a family friend in the jewelry business who has offered to take him loose diamond shopping in the diamond district in Chicago (not NYC!) He is convinced she is going to find him a better deal that he can get online. The PS consensus seems to be that much better deals can be had online, does this change if you have family ties to a jeweler, are markups that high that he is going to save a ton on the stone going through her? He has not yet gotten any prices quoted from her. We are not in a huge hurry and have a month or two to source the stone yet.

Any and all input, suggestions, or recommended diamonds appreciated greatly!

 

[msop04]

One final question, my boyfriend has a family friend in the jewelry business who has offered to take him loose diamond shopping in the diamond district in Chicago (not NYC!) He is convinced she is going to find him a better deal that he can get online. The PS consensus seems to be that much better deals can be had online, does this change if you have family ties to a jeweler, are markups that high that he is going to save a ton on the stone going through her? He has not yet gotten any prices quoted from her. We are not in a huge hurry and have a month or two to source the stone yet.

Any and all input, suggestions, or recommended diamonds appreciated greatly!

First of all... this is BS.

Ovals show more color than rounds, so I wouldn't go below I for a halo or H for a solitaire. A nicely cut oval is hard to find... most are crap. Let me look.

 

[msop04]

What is your budget all in?

 

[oval_seeker]

All in budget is 15k.

Any pictures or advice on how to best identify an oval that is well cut is helpful! We've learned a lot about color and clarity but it's hard to identify a well cut oval as newbie, as i'm sure you know!

 

[msop04]

For BN, you have to hold the Ctrl button when you click the link...

8.39 x 6.58 - this is my favorite, by far! Super faceting and perfect shape
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08903939

I'd have David Klass make either of these halos in 18K yellow gold. I prefer the single shank.

 

[msop04]

All in budget is 15k.

Any pictures or advice on how to best identify an oval that is well cut is helpful! We've learned a lot about color and clarity but it's hard to identify a well cut oval as newbie, as i'm sure you know!

You have to have photos/videos of ovals... you can't choose fancies based on numbers like you can rounds.

Watch the video of the one I posted... it's really beautiful.

 

[msop04]

This shows the difference in finger coverage for the BN oval I linked on a size 6.5 finger. Left would be the oval in a soli, and the right shows the finger coverage even a dainty halo can add (almost 50%, as shown by the diagram)! Hope this helps!

 

[oval_seeker]

Thank you, Msop04, this is a really beautiful suggestion and the second setting is right on the money, I had not considered David Klass previously and now I'm drooling!

So, I'm thinking that cut is particularly good because it has some bigger facets, which will give off bigger, crisper flashes of light vs some of the smaller more crushed ice (?) looking ovals that I see a lot of? Does that sound right?

Also, does the ratio of the diamond at all correlate to the cut quality? I've read that the 1.35-1.45 ratio range is "ideal" for ovals, this one is 1.28, does it get some of those bigger facets because it's a little more roundish of an oval, or does cut have nothing to do with that whatsoever?

Thank you again for your suggestion and for tolerating rudimentary questions!

 

[msop04]

Thank you, Msop04, this is a really beautiful suggestion and the second setting is right on the money, I had not considered David Klass previously and now I'm drooling!

So, I'm thinking that cut is particularly good because it has some bigger facets, which will give off bigger, crisper flashes of light vs some of the smaller more crushed ice (?) looking ovals that I see a lot of? Does that sound right?

Yes, the crisper facets eliminate "dead/mushy" areas AND there is absolutely NO BOW TIE!!

Also, does the ratio of the diamond at all correlate to the cut quality? I've read that the 1.35-1.45 ratio range is "ideal" for ovals, this one is 1.28, does it get some of those bigger facets because it's a little more roundish of an oval, or does cut have nothing to do with that whatsoever?

This is my understanding... the "rounder," the better chance of having less mush and crisper faceting. My favorite is around 1.3 for ovals.

Thank you again for your suggestion and for tolerating rudimentary questions!

No problem, OS!! I'm excited to see what you choose! You may want to put that oval on hold with BN so it doesn't get snatched up!

 

[msop04]

I think you'd be very happy with a halo from DK... Show him that photo and tell him to duplicate the same proportions. I've had him make several thinks for me, and I've been very pleased with the quality, customer service, and price.

 

[msop04]

OS, do you plan to do yellow gold all over, or just in the shank (with white metal for the halo and prongs)? I'm assuming all YG...

 

[tyty333]

I checked JA and didnt see anything all that great.

You might try Enchanted diamonds. They have a few that might be worth looking in to.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...heirloom=true&shape=Oval&wire_price_max=12110

Also, if you cant find anything, talk to Yekutiel at ID Jewelry. He'll be able to find you something nice.
https://idjewelry.com/

 

[msop04]

I checked JA and didnt see anything all that great.

You might try Enchanted diamonds. They have a few that might be worth looking in to.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...heirloom=true&shape=Oval&wire_price_max=12110

Also, if you cant find anything, talk to Yekutiel at ID Jewelry. He'll be able to find you something nice.
https://idjewelry.com/

Yeah... I was disappointed with JA's oval selection as well.

 

[drk14]

IMO, this one is just as lovely as the BN suggestion, but it has slightly more spread (8.68x6.57) -- even though it is only 1.50ct (and thus cheaper), and its L/W is closer to "ideal":
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.50-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2820907

For even more spread (9.06x6.75), this 1.60-ct oval at JA also has potential (may be a bit less sparkly than the other suggestions, although still what I would consider "above average"):
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.60-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3168983

(This is what I found sifting through JA's online selection with search parameters G+, VS2+, 1.50ct+, up to $12k. There may be additional candidates that can be found using more relaxed search parameters, or at other vendors' sites.)

 

[msop04]

IMO, this one is just as lovely as the BN suggestion, but it has slightly more spread (8.68x6.57) -- even though it is only 1.50ct (and thus cheaper), and its L/W is closer to "ideal":
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.50-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2820907

For even more spread (9.06x6.75), this 1.60-ct oval at JA also has potential (may be a bit less sparkly than the other suggestions, although still what I would consider "above average"):
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.60-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3168983

(This is what I found sifting through JA's online selection with search parameters G+, VS2+, 1.50ct+, up to $12k. There may be additional candidates that can be found using more relaxed search parameters, or at other vendors' sites.)

Very nice oval, drk! I searched 1.6-2.0 ct, so I missed that one. I would agree that it's just as nice. It's also just a smidge larger than the BN and a good bit less expensive. It would be my first choice.

I'm not loving the 1.60... mush on either side of the bow-tie area.

EDIT: After looking at the 1.6, I think it would be very nice as well... and very white.

 

[oval_seeker]

OS, do you plan to do yellow gold all over, or just in the shank (with white metal for the halo and prongs)? I'm assuming all YG...

Msop - Yes, all YG. I'm not a fan of the two-tone look although I do appreciate that the white gold center obviously makes the diamond appear whiter.

Any estimates on the cost of having DK make a setting similar to what you posted?

 

[oval_seeker]

Very nice oval, drk! I searched 1.6-2.0 ct, so I missed that one. I would agree that it's just as nice. It's also just a smidge larger than the BN and a good bit less expensive. It would be my first choice.

I'm not loving the 1.60... mush on either side of the bow-tie area.

EDIT: After looking at the 1.6, I think it would be very nice as well... and very white.

Wow! I think I like the 1.6 the best so far! These are both beautiful! Considering it will be in a halo, will the difference between a stone with a 1.28 ratio and a 1.34 ratio be negligible? Below is a pic of a halo I tried on which I quite liked the proportion of on my hand, I'm guessing the ratio of the CZ center is around 1.3 and a 1.5 ct equiv. The band is 1.7mm for reference.

Also, any chance that you can elaborate on why shopping in person with my bf's family friend is BS? How much more would you anticipate stones in this same quality range to be in person vs online?

Thanks again, all!

 

[msop04]

Msop - Yes, all YG. I'm not a fan of the two-tone look although I do appreciate that the white gold center obviously makes the diamond appear whiter.

Any estimates on the cost of having DK make a setting similar to what you posted?

Just email him with that photo, your finger size, and specify 18K yellow gold. Tell him you were referred by other PS members. His email is [email protected] -- he'll get back to you in a couple of days.

 

[msop04]

Wow! I think I like the 1.6 the best so far! These are both beautiful! Considering it will be in a halo, will the difference between a stone with a 1.28 ratio and a 1.34 ratio be negligible? Below is a pic of a halo I tried on which I quite liked the proportion of on my hand, I'm guessing the ratio of the CZ center is around 1.3 and a 1.5 ct equiv. The band is 1.7mm for reference.

Also, any chance that you can elaborate on why shopping in person with my bf's family friend is BS? How much more would you anticipate stones in this same quality range to be in person vs online?

Thanks again, all!

It will simply be more elongated, but nothing drastic.

 

[drk14]

So, I'm thinking that cut is particularly good because it has some bigger facets, which will give off bigger, crisper flashes of light vs some of the smaller more crushed ice (?) looking ovals that I see a lot of? Does that sound right?

Here's my take. In elongated shapes (oval, pear, marquise), the reflections off the facets and virtual facets (which is a reflection of part of a facet in one or more other facets) come in two flavors: on the one hand, broad/chunky/crisp reflections that arise from larger virtual facets and have not bounced around much within the diamond, and on the other hand, crushed ice type reflections that arise from very small virtual facets and have bounced around many times within the stone before the light reaches your eye. The latter type ("crushed ice") can be attractive (featuring a large number tiny twinkles, sometimes called "pinfire" reflection) or unattractive (which we call "mush"). Some people prefer one flavor of reflection over the other, but on PS, most posters steer shoppers towards the broad/chunk/crisp facet style. In part, this is because it is almost impossible to distinguish between "pinfire" crushed ice and "mushy" crushed ice using the tools we have available online (photos, video, ASET, etc.).

Most ovals have chunky facets in the belly region (the minor axis of the ellipse), and some degree of crushed ice to either side of the belly. The juxtaposition of the two light reflection styles can be jarring, and in any case, PS mostly prefers broader facets for reasons explained above. Therefore, I try to find ovals that have as much chunky/crisp light return as possible from the areas outside the belly, making sure that these broader virtual facets are evenly distributed across the face of the diamond. The key to this is to observe the diamond in motion, as it's being tilted a small amount (say +/- 30deg) around the face-up position. Look for virtual facets that turn on and off -- i.e., alternately reflect dark and light as the stone is tilted. Pay attention to how quickly the transition from dark to light (and vice versa) is, and/or how quickly the on-off flashing is repeated. Crisp or high-frequency transitions are desirable, especially if the virtual facet in question is reasonably large. When you've identified all such areas (having crisply flashing virtual facets that aren't tiny), then consider whether these "active" areas are evenly distributed. Commonly, this type of light return is found only in the belly region, but if you look through a large number of candidate stones, you can find those that have broad/chunky flashes distributed more evenly. These are the ones I look for.

Also, does the ratio of the diamond at all correlate to the cut quality? I've read that the 1.35-1.45 ratio range is "ideal" for ovals, this one is 1.28, does it get some of those bigger facets because it's a little more roundish of an oval, or does cut have nothing to do with that whatsoever?

"Ideal" L/W ratios is a somewhat arbitrary standard against which diamond shapes are sometimes compared, not unlike the way dogs are judged against some "ideal" standard for the breed in a dog show. So, in elongated shapes, there is sometimes a number that has been declared "ideal" for the breed (e.g., 1.5 for oval, 2.0 for marquise). Your personal preference for shape is more important.

It is true that a more squat/chubby (lower L/W ratio) will produce a diamond that behaves more like a round diamond, and thus we start to recognize in the belly region of chubby ovals the familiar facet shapes of the MRB, which tend to be of the chunky/broad variety (if the cutting has any kind of symmetry). The converse is not necessarily true: i.e., it is possible to have a more elongated shape that still contains a sufficient number of broad facets to pass PS muster.

Another consideration is that when adding a halo, the outline of the halo will always have a lower L/W ratio than the center diamond.

Better stop rambling...Didn't mean for this to become a dissertation when I started typing!

 

[drk14]

Considering it will be in a halo, will the difference between a stone with a 1.28 ratio and a 1.34 ratio be negligible?

Assuming you're referring to the 1.70ct and 1.60ct ovals suggested in this thread, and taking the halo width to equal 1.7mm (looks similar to the shank width in your photo), then you will get:

The 1.70ct oval (1.28 L/W) will yield a halo outline that is 11.79x9.98 (which is a 1.18 L/W ratio).

The 1.60ct oval (1.34 L/W) will yield a halo outline that is 12.46x10.15 (which is a 1.23 L/W ratio).

For comparison, the halo in your photo appears to have a halo outline with L/W ratio close to 1.26.

 

[oval_seeker]

Just email him with that photo, your finger size, and specify 18K yellow gold. Tell him you were referred by other PS members. His email is [email protected] -- he'll get back to you in a couple of days.

Thank you! I sent him a note to inquire!

 

[oval_seeker]

Assuming you're referring to the 1.70ct and 1.60ct ovals suggested in this thread, and taking the halo width to equal 1.7mm (looks similar to the shank width in your photo), then you will get:

The 1.70ct oval (1.28 L/W) will yield a halo outline that is 11.79x9.98 (which is a 1.18 L/W ratio).

The 1.60ct oval (1.34 L/W) will yield a halo outline that is 12.46x10.15 (which is a 1.23 L/W ratio).

For comparison, the halo in your photo appears to have a halo outline with L/W ratio close to 1.26.

Thank you, drk! This is all very helpful as was your above post on what type of faceting to look for!

I plugged these ratios in to compare what the spread would look like on my finger and there's such a huge difference, I would never have thought to look at it that way! The 1.6 is definitely a better ratio for me!

If it were up to me, I would pull the trigger on the 1.6. I did share this link with my bf but he feels hung up on going to look for diamonds in person with his family friend before buying online. Any thoughts on this? What type of price expectations can we except to see in person vs online?

Thanks again for such a detailed input!

 

[drk14]

I did share this link with my bf but he feels hung up on going to look for diamonds in person with his family friend before buying online.

You may have to acquiesce if he feels strongly about it, but you might have some luck swaying him if you point him to some of the stories on PS about individuals who've tried to buy diamonds from "family friends", wholesalers, etc. Here's a few:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-off-1-carat-egl-e-si2-very-good-cut.148461/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-an-hca-of-6-always-bad.181187/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-with-diamond-for-engagement-ring.231171/

There's many more where these came from.

It's possible that your bf and his friend will have some luck, but I'd say the odds are stacked against them given that B&M stores have higher overhead costs than internet vendors, and these costs must be passed on to the customer. You should insist on the following:

• GIA or AGS certified diamonds only (and make sure they give you the report number for any diamonds they are considering).
• Vendors must have a risk-free no-questions-asked return policy (with no restocking or other fees) with a return period no less than 30 days.
• Vendors must have a favorable buy-back and/or trade-up policy (e.g., diamonds purchased from JA can be exchanged at 100% credit for any replacement diamond of at least 2X or greater value).

To buy yourself some time, you could ask JA to put the 1.60ct oval on hold for you. If you're going to do this, it would be good to also look for a 2nd and 3rd choice diamond from JA's inventory, as they allow a maximum of 3 diamonds to be imaged by ASET and inspected by their gemologists. Put all three on hold and request ASETs and a gemologist's inspection.

You may also consider purchasing the JA diamond, and letting your bf know he has to find something better within 30 days (JA's return period). This would potentially allow you to do a side-by-side comparison.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[igs]

Hi All! First time poster here! My boyfriend and I have recently started browsing for engagement rings. The budget is up to 15k but ideally around the 12k range.

I know I am looking for an oval shaped diamond and we have done quite a bit of research around the web as to what we should be ideally looking for in an oval. I am tall and have long fingers, size 6.5. Finger coverage is important to me!

I've narrowed it down to two options that I have been equally interested in for many months. My taste is pretty simplistic so the idea of a big juicy solitaire has always been dreamy to me. In order to get the finger coverage I think I need, we'd be looking for something around 1.75-2 carats (or something with equivalent spread), on the other hand, I would be just has happy with an oval set in a very nice, clean, dainty halo setting with a pave band. In this case, we'd be looking for something roughly around the 1.5 carat range to leave money for a nice halo.

My question is, is our budget just too tight to find a nice diamond in the size we'd need to be happy with a solitaire? I don't want to be unrealistic and put pressure on my bf to get to the magical "2 carat" range when we really don't have the budget for the right color/clarity that we need? It seems that the jump in price from a 1.5 to a 2 is huge, so are we are better off looking for a nice quality 1.4-1.5ct stone and adding a halo or will we end up roughly spending the same? The more I look around the more confused I get! Either way I am planning to set in yellow gold, will this give us a bit more room to go lower on color even for a solitaire? Are halos too trendy? Will I regret going with this style?

One final question, my boyfriend has a family friend in the jewelry business who has offered to take him loose diamond shopping in the diamond district in Chicago (not NYC!) He is convinced she is going to find him a better deal that he can get online. The PS consensus seems to be that much better deals can be had online, does this change if you have family ties to a jeweler, are markups that high that he is going to save a ton on the stone going through her? He has not yet gotten any prices quoted from her. We are not in a huge hurry and have a month or two to source the stone yet.

Any and all input, suggestions, or recommended diamonds appreciated greatly!

 

[igs]

Hi Oval Seeker,
If your BF has a family friend in the business you should totally honor your family friend and give her the opportunity to serve you. She would feel terrible if she weren't even approached to help you guys find the diamond. What an honor it would be for your family friend who is more than willing to go all out and put her heart out into finding you the best deal in Chicago. It's not always about money but it's about the sentiment involved in acquiring the diamond. Give your BF's family friend the honor of finding you the diamond. You'll be seeing her the rest of your life and she'll always remember your commitment to her. It would mean a lot to her that you've made her part of your important decision to get engaged. She'll be terribly hurt if you by pass her. I'm just giving you advice from my heart.

Good Luck. ....and Happy Engagement

 

[soxfan]

Hi Oval Seeker,
If your BF has a family friend in the business you should totally honor your family friend and give her the opportunity to serve you. She would feel terrible if she weren't even approached to help you guys find the diamond. What an honor it would be for your family friend who is more than willing to go all out and put her heart out into finding you the best deal in Chicago. It's not always about money but it's about the sentiment involved in acquiring the diamond. Give your BF's family friend the honor of finding you the diamond. You'll be seeing her the rest of your life and she'll always remember your commitment to her. It would mean a lot to her that you've made her part of your important decision to get engaged. She'll be terribly hurt if you by pass her. I'm just giving you advice from my heart.

Good Luck. ....and Happy Engagement

Yeah, the "family friend getting me a great deal" has NEVER come to fruition in any instance that I've seen on here.

 

[drk14]

Here's a few more links you can pass to your bf:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/red-flags-to-watch-for-when-buying-a-diamond.88842/

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...e-you-bought-from-this-company-chicago.94738/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-decide-on-egl-cert-diamond.204046/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-on-a-wholesaler.205872/

 

[WillyDiamond]

A family friend helped my dad pick a diamond for my mom...turned out to be many grades lower. Tread lightly on this. In the end it's your money and to be spent as you wish. My experience.....I asked a friend in the business to find me a diamond for my wife. Told her to pick ones out as if she was shopping for her son. I thought that was a good parameter. She then proceeded to ask me whether I want a diamond with or without a grading report! I ran.

Chris at BE can also do halo work and be budget friendly.
Good luck.

 

[msop04]

Hi Oval Seeker,
If your BF has a family friend in the business you should totally honor your family friend and give her the opportunity to serve you. She would feel terrible if she weren't even approached to help you guys find the diamond. What an honor it would be for your family friend who is more than willing to go all out and put her heart out into finding you the best deal in Chicago. It's not always about money but it's about the sentiment involved in acquiring the diamond. Give your BF's family friend the honor of finding you the diamond. You'll be seeing her the rest of your life and she'll always remember your commitment to her. It would mean a lot to her that you've made her part of your important decision to get engaged. She'll be terribly hurt if you by pass her. I'm just giving you advice from my heart.

Good Luck. ....and Happy Engagement

Yeah, the "family friend getting me a great deal" has NEVER come to fruition in any instance that I've seen on here.

I totally disagree with igs (and agree with sox)... It's about getting the best diamond for your money -- one that you will love. It's certainly not about making making a family friend money happy.