Seeking round ~1ct

[xyz12]

Looking for some help in finding the perfect diamond for an engagement ring for my GF. I've visited several local jewelers and have seen some decent stones, but don't feel overly confident that I can properly judge quality /value. I'm not opposed to shopping for a solitaire online, but will likely going with a local designer for a custom setting.

Here's what I'm looking for:

Wishlist
Budget: ~$5000 (diamond only)
Style: Round
Size: 0.98 - 1.1 carat
Cut: Excellent (GIA 3EX or AGS000)
Color: J or better
Clarity: SI2 (eye clean) or better
Fluorescence: No preference (as long as it's not cloudy)

It's going to be set in a 4 prong white gold ring with a sweeping trellis (no gallery bar). So fairly simple. My GF doesn't have a strong preference on clarity or color - she couldn't really distinguish between several H, I, J's we looked at side by side. She did however have a good eye on size, so I'd like to stay as close to ~1ct or bigger as possible.

Any and all help in tracking down some good candidates is much appreciated!

 

[metatrix]

Do you have the certificate numbers or specs for the diamonds that you have seen in person? We could start by telling you if any of those are a good choice and good value for money. If you want to save money by going for an eye clean SI2 and/or non-cloudy fluorescent, it is much, much easier to find such a stone locally rather than online, since you really need to check that it's eye clean and non cloudy yourself by seeing the stone in person.

How do you feel about the local jewellers you've worked with? Have you given any of them your parameters and asked them to conduct a search on your behalf?

 

[RockyRacoon]

Looking for some help in finding the perfect diamond for an engagement ring for my GF. I've visited several local jewelers and have seen some decent stones, but don't feel overly confident that I can properly judge quality /value. I'm not opposed to shopping for a solitaire online, but will likely going with a local designer for a custom setting.

Here's what I'm looking for:

Wishlist
Budget: ~$5000 (diamond only)
Style: Round
Size: 0.98 - 1.1 carat
Cut: Excellent (GIA 3EX or AGS000)
Color: J or better
Clarity: SI2 (eye clean) or better
Fluorescence: No preference (as long as it's not cloudy)

It's going to be set in a 4 prong white gold ring with a sweeping trellis (no gallery bar). So fairly simple. My GF doesn't have a strong preference on clarity or color - she couldn't really distinguish between several H, I, J's we looked at side by side. She did however have a good eye on size, so I'd like to stay as close to ~1ct or bigger as possible.

Any and all help in tracking down some good candidates is much appreciated!

Here a few solid options with top-of-the-line cut -

This one has a spread (face-up size) close to that of an average 1-carat stone:
.94ct, H, SI2 (confirm this is eye-clean)
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=20


If you find yourself (and more importantly, the recipient) able to tolerate K-color (neither of you seem particularly color-sensitive), I would suggest this stone with fluorescence, to get you over that 1ct hump:
1.011ct, K, VS2
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.011-k-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104071920016


Now, I'm not sure that this one is eye-clean, but if it is, the K-color may be more tolerable with the August Vintage Round, and this would get you SIGNIFICANT size and a totally unique cut, all within your budget:
1.25ct, K, SI2 August Vintage Round
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11914/

 

[xyz12]

Do you have the certificate numbers or specs for the diamonds that you have seen in person? We could start by telling you if any of those are a good choice and good value for money. If you want to save money by going for an eye clean SI2 and/or non-cloudy fluorescent, it is much, much easier to find such a stone locally rather than online, since you really need to check that it's eye clean and non cloudy yourself by seeing the stone in person.

How do you feel about the local jewellers you've worked with? Have you given any of them your parameters and asked them to conduct a search on your behalf?

I still don't have a good sense of measurements and proportions enough to judge. All I can really go by is what my eyes tell me, which makes it tough to determine "value". I came to this forum seeking education and advice

The most promising stone I found in my searching thus far was the following. It is eye clean from about 6 inches, mostly twinning wisps that were barely visible. Price was about ~$5,400.

This gets a 2.6 on the HCA - but I'm not sure if it's good? I've read that cut is everything for sparkles / fire.

Measurements 6.37 - 6.40 x 3.99 mm
Carat Weight 1.01 carat
Color Grade J
Clarity Grade SI2
Cut Grade Excellent
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Depth 62.4 %
Table 56 %
Crown Angle 35.5°
Crown Height 15.5%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 55%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None
Fluorescence Medium Blue
Clarity Characteristics Twinning Wisp, Crystal, Indented Natural
Additional twinning wisps, pinpoints and surface graining are not shown.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Do you have the certificate numbers or specs for the diamonds that you have seen in person? We could start by telling you if any of those are a good choice and good value for money. If you want to save money by going for an eye clean SI2 and/or non-cloudy fluorescent, it is much, much easier to find such a stone locally rather than online, since you really need to check that it's eye clean and non cloudy yourself by seeing the stone in person.

How do you feel about the local jewellers you've worked with? Have you given any of them your parameters and asked them to conduct a search on your behalf?

I still don't have a good sense of measurements and proportions enough to judge. All I can really go by is what my eyes tell me, which makes it tough to determine "value". I came to this forum seeking education and advice

The most promising stone I found in my searching thus far was the following. It is eye clean from about 6 inches, mostly twinning wisps that were barely visible. Price was about ~$5,400.

This gets a 2.6 on the HCA - but I'm not sure if it's good? I've read that cut is everything for sparkles / fire.

Measurements 6.37 - 6.40 x 3.99 mm
Carat Weight 1.01 carat
Color Grade J
Clarity Grade SI2
Cut Grade Excellent
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Depth 62.4 %
Table 56 %
Crown Angle 35.5°
Crown Height 15.5%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 55%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None
Fluorescence Medium Blue
Clarity Characteristics Twinning Wisp, Crystal, Indented Natural
Additional twinning wisps, pinpoints and surface graining are not shown.

That stone is slightly smaller (6.37x6.40 vs 6.39x6.42) and two colors lower than the High Performance Diamonds stone I had linked above. In addition, the cut of the HPD stone is going to be better than the cut of that stone.

The kicker: the High Performance stone is almost $1k less than the stone you had listed!!!

Easy decision here!

 

[xyz12]

That stone is slightly smaller (6.37x6.40 vs 6.39x6.42) and two colors lower than the High Performance Diamonds stone I had linked above. In addition, the cut of the HPD stone is going to be better than the cut of that stone.

The kicker: the High Performance stone is almost $1k less than the stone you had listed!!!

Easy decision here!

Thanks for the suggestions Rocky! I guess this I'm a bit confused - both are rated "Excellent" cut by GIA standards. My limited research on the forum indicates there's more variance in GIA's grading tiers (as opposed to AGS 000). However, when you say the HPD diamond has a better cut, can you help me understand why?

 

[RockyRacoon]

That stone is slightly smaller (6.37x6.40 vs 6.39x6.42) and two colors lower than the High Performance Diamonds stone I had linked above. In addition, the cut of the HPD stone is going to be better than the cut of that stone.

The kicker: the High Performance stone is almost $1k less than the stone you had listed!!!

Easy decision here!

Thanks for the suggestions Rocky! I guess this I'm a bit confused - both are rated "Excellent" cut by GIA standards. My limited research on the forum indicates there's more variance in GIA's grading tiers (as opposed to AGS 000). However, when you say the HPD diamond has a better cut, can you help me understand why?

You are correct about more variance in the GIA XXX vs. AGS 000. However, either report, combined with an expert set of eyes, will be the best way to assess a stone.

This guide might be valuable, when you have a few minutes to breeze through it, as it discusses the difference in GIA/AGS standards:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut

I see that you have already found the HCA - with stones under 2/2.5 worth further consideration. The HPD stone scored a 1.7, while the other scored over 2.5. All this means is that the HPD stone is worth further consideration.

In addition, having a stone vetted by a vendor like Wink at HPD is invaluable. He has many years of experience with high-quality stones and it's great to have a set of eyes like that in your corner. He will see things a casual observer might not, and would be able to raise any red flags, if an issue was apparent.

Best of luck!

 

[metatrix]

Hi, I can give you an explanation, but the specs you posted is missing the pavilion angle, which is crucial.

When I worked with local jewellers to find my diamond, what I did was give them the parameters of what I was looking for. Then they came back to me with a list of stones (certificate numbers and price). I would go through all the certificates and if there was a stone with proportions that were acceptable to me, I would ask the jeweller to bring the stone in so that I could see it. If you ask a few local jewellers to provide you with lists of stones they have access to within your parameters, we can go through the lists for you and tell you which ones, if any, are worth seeing.

For this to be worthwhile, though, you would need to find local jewellers who are not too much more expensive than online retailers. They exist, but they can be hard to find, depending on your location.

 

[xyz12]

Hi, I can give you an explanation, but the specs you posted is missing the pavilion angle, which is crucial.

When I worked with local jewellers to find my diamond, what I did was give them the parameters of what I was looking for. Then they came back to me with a list of stones (certificate numbers and price). I would go through all the certificates and if there was a stone with proportions that were acceptable to me, I would ask the jeweller to bring the stone in so that I could see it. If you ask a few local jewellers to provide you with lists of stones they have access to within your parameters, we can go through the lists for you and tell you which ones, if any, are worth seeing.

For this to be worthwhile, though, you would need to find local jewellers who are not too much more expensive than online retailers. They exist, but they can be hard to find, depending on your location.

Thanks metatrix. The Pavilion Angle (40.8°) was actually listed above - you might have missed it. Any explanation would be very greatly helpful!

I do live in a large city, with tons of local jewelers. While I know the basics, part of the problem is I don't know what proportions I'm looking for. The fact that there's not great "excellent" rated stones is so confusing. Is there a good guide or set of proportions to use as a starting point for a local search?

 

[metatrix]

Hi, I can give you an explanation, but the specs you posted is missing the pavilion angle, which is crucial.

When I worked with local jewellers to find my diamond, what I did was give them the parameters of what I was looking for. Then they came back to me with a list of stones (certificate numbers and price). I would go through all the certificates and if there was a stone with proportions that were acceptable to me, I would ask the jeweller to bring the stone in so that I could see it. If you ask a few local jewellers to provide you with lists of stones they have access to within your parameters, we can go through the lists for you and tell you which ones, if any, are worth seeing.

For this to be worthwhile, though, you would need to find local jewellers who are not too much more expensive than online retailers. They exist, but they can be hard to find, depending on your location.

Thanks metatrix. The Pavilion Angle (40.8°) was actually listed above - you might have missed it. Any explanation would be very greatly helpful!

I do live in a large city, with tons of local jewelers. While I know the basics, part of the problem is I don't know what proportions I'm looking for. Is there a good guide or set of proportions to use as a starting point for a local search?

That pavilion angle is perfect, and so is the table %. The crown angle is slightly too steep for a pavilion angle of 40.8, though. Ideally it should be 33.5-35 degrees. However, since it is only half a degree off, and GIA does lots of rounding, and the rest of the specs look great, it would be worth seeing an idealscope image of the diamond -- it could be just fine.

These are the proportions I personally like to use as a guideline of what is ideal, when I am screening through certificates (PA = pavilion angle; CA = crown angle).

For tables between 55-58%:

If PA is 40.6; CA should be 34.5-35.5
If PA is 40.8; CA should be 33.5-35.0
If PA is 41.0; CA should be 32.5-33.5


Now, diamonds outside of that can still have excellent light performance, and I would consider them on a case by case basis. But if you stick to the proportions I stated above, you are virtually guaranteed optimal light performance and a balance between brightness and fire, provided that the girdle is even, the diamond is reasonably optically symmetrical (not necessarily hearts and arrows, but not totally chaotic either), and there is no cloudiness, distortion, or weird inclusions interfering with the path of the light rays. If you stick to the proportions above, the diamond should fall within GIA excellent proportions, AGS 0 proportions, and HCA<2. If all three of those cut grade systems agree that the proportions are ideal, then they almost certainly will be.

Now onto the second issue:

When working with local jewellers, it is usually best just to tell them what colour, clarity, and size you are looking for, and for cut simple tell them that you want to see only GIA excellent or AGS 0 stones. Then you (or pricescope) can comb through the proportions yourself.

Most jewellers do not like to do the work of checking the exact proportions themselves. I was only able to find two jewellers who were willing to do this, and they are both phenomenally patient people.

Where are you located? Some PS vendors (e.g. GOG) have a physical storefront.

 

[SirGuy]

Great post, metatrix. I'm quite impressed with the quality of your replies, and this isn't even my thread!

 

[metatrix]

Great post, metatrix. I'm quite impressed with the quality of your replies, and this isn't even my thread!

Lol, I should be studying human anatomy, and instead I am blabbering on about diamond anatomy...

I like going into details on here, although I'm worried that I'll say something incorrect and lead people astray. Consumers come to this forum for expert advice and I feel like an imposter because I'm just a new diamond consumer myself. I basically knew nothing about diamonds until 6 weeks ago, so forgive me if I make mistakes!

But thank you. It's nice to know that my obsessive research on diamonds isn't going to complete waste now that I've finished picking my own engagement ring stone.

 

[xyz12]

Great post, metatrix. I'm quite impressed with the quality of your replies, and this isn't even my thread!

Lol, I should be studying human anatomy, and instead I am blabbering on about diamond anatomy...

I like going into details on here, although I'm worried that I'll say something incorrect and lead people astray. Consumers come to this forum for expert advice and I feel like an imposter because I'm just a new diamond consumer myself. I basically knew nothing about diamonds until 6 weeks ago, so forgive me if I make mistakes!

But thank you. It's nice to know that my obsessive research on diamonds isn't going to complete waste now that I've finished picking my own engagement ring stone.

Thank you so much metatrix! This is extremely helpful. I'm going to do some hunting and see what I can find and come back to this board.