Searching in Singapore

[Akaiyuki]

Hi all.

I have been lurking in the forums for only a few days. In about a week I have gone from wanting only Tiff (upon my colleagues recc.) to seriously considering some of the higher end B&Ms in Singapore (like Lee Hwa, Aspial & Larry's, Charlotte Atelier) and now to thinking about possibly procuring through a jeweller in Singapore (e.g. the one CowboyStu recommended).

Then I started "shopping" (niceice, whiteflash etc.) online and wow, the rings are just of an excellent quality and reasonable price.

The thing is, I just can't get ard the problem or can't deal with buying the diamond from overseas and then losing it in transit, or getting bad service etc. It just don't give me peace of mind. -> I know people get diamonds online all the time but I am not so keen.

So, I really have 2 questions:
1) I have 4 broad groups of retailer in SG and I would like to know which really would give me the best bang for the buck.
a) Ultra High End Jewellery Boutiques: Tiff, Cartier, Charlotte
b) Medium B&Ms like Lee Hwa, Aspial etc.
c) Jewel Houses like Felin etc.
d) Procure a particular gem through a gem house (like yuen tung?)

2) Are the people who have procured a diamond both online and through a gem house and found the prices competitive? Any recommendations?

My budget is about S$5k = 2917USD. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Akaiyuki

 

[niceice]

Hello Akaiyuki,

We can appreciate your concern with regards to purchasing a diamond / ring over the internet and having it shipped to Singapore, however we have successfully completed many such transactions with great success. We happen to be working with a client in Singapore at the moment who has had a lot of interaction with several of the more prominent stores and jewelry manufacturers in Singapore with rather mixed results. We'll try contacting her and see if she is willing to respond to your thread, allow a day or two for a response due to the time difference and all

 

[starfire]

Dear Akaiyuki,

You are right to feel concerned about buying such an expensive piece of jewelry online, without having the chance to see with your own eyes if the diamond is of the right size, the right colour, the right clarity and so on.

Although the chances of loss-in-transit in relatively low, is this something you wish to keep worrying about while you wait for the diamond to be sent to you? If you wish to find out how nervous and worried buyers feel when their diamond was lost, please search in this forum and diamondtalk.com and you will find that the stress may not be worth the while.

Keep in mind that online retailers are able to give good pricing because they have little overhead cost, and often have very little inventory (sometimes drop-shipping a diamond to you without even seeing the diamond). Therefore, low prices can come with a price - the service that you have come to expect in a full-service jewelry store can be non-existent.

If you are living in Singapore (and Singapore is such a small country), why not take the time to have a discussion with the various retailers you mentioned below and see if you can find the right diamond which suits you? I am sure that at least one retailer below will be able to meet your requirements. With your budget, there are many many choices to be had in Singapore.

Also keep in mind that the Great Singapore Sale is on from tomorrow onwards. This means that you will be able to get good bargains in the process.

Happy Shopping!

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

----------------
On 5/25/2004 2:18:19 PM Akaiyuki wrote:

Hi all.

I have been lurking in the forums for only a few days. In about a week I have gone from wanting only Tiff (upon my colleagues recc.) to seriously considering some of the higher end B&Ms in Singapore (like Lee Hwa, Aspial & Larry's, Charlotte Atelier) and now to thinking about possibly procuring through a jeweller in Singapore (e.g. the one CowboyStu recommended).

Then I started 'shopping' (niceice, whiteflash etc.) online and wow, the rings are just of an excellent quality and reasonable price.

The thing is, I just can't get ard the problem or can't deal with buying the diamond from overseas and then losing it in transit, or getting bad service etc. It just don't give me peace of mind. -> I know people get diamonds online all the time but I am not so keen.

So, I really have 2 questions:
1) I have 4 broad groups of retailer in SG and I would like to know which really would give me the best bang for the buck.
a) Ultra High End Jewellery Boutiques: Tiff, Cartier, Charlotte
b) Medium B&Ms like Lee Hwa, Aspial etc.
c) Jewel Houses like Felin etc.
d) Procure a particular gem through a gem house (like yuen tung?)

2) Are the people who have procured a diamond both online and through a gem house and found the prices competitive? Any recommendations?

My budget is about S$5k = 2917USD. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Akaiyuki
----------------

 

[csk1975]

Hi,

I can understand your concern about buying on the 'net, it was a real leap of faith to wire off the funds, but then the diamond arrived and it was exactly as advertised (absolutely stunning) and in a setting that was beautifully made.

The vendors such as Nice Ice, Good Old Gold, etc. all have their ideal diamonds in stock, and in my experience they don't misrepresent their wares. Look at this for an example - if anything they tell you too much and point out all the flaws in their diamonds. None of the local shops I visited were anywhere near as forthcoming, all their diamonds were perfect and a great buy - lah! Escpecially after the 10% discount - but only for today.

Personally I don't understand why someone would try to reinforce the doubts you have about Internet purchases. Sure there may be problems but I had none. I would expect that problems are very rare and shipping from the US to Singapore is simple. Its just a matter of quality and cost - you won't get a cup of tea, flashy lights or a pushy salesperson, but if you stick with people who have a passion for their work - like Nice Ice and Good Old Gold, etc - you will get a better quality, bigger diamond for the same money.

 

[Akaiyuki]

Hi. Tks for the advice so far.

Todd & Robin: I have been on your site browsing diamonds. An oh do they look nice for the price. I would love to talk with that customer you have been dealing with since he/she has had exposure to a broad sweep of the Singapore market.

Starfire: Tks for the advice though cos I have gone through most of the threads regarding Singapore, I have sorta heard them before. I have not quite eliminated local B&M's totally but you got to admit the price, in absolute dollars are significantly higher than buying online, or even from some of the SG jewellers. That said, I am very keen on taking a look at the Gabis, so I will be popping down in the next week.

csk1975: Hi, I don't doubt the integrity of vendors like Niceice.com, GOG & Whiteflash etc. (ACA ARE NICE) but the fact remains that I don't quite have any control over the shipping etc. there are just so many variables. You seem to have been round the block etc. Are there alternatives to getting diamonds at a nice prices in Singapore? Got any recommendations? As I said, any and all help would be appreciated.

 

[starfire]

Hi csk1975,

Actually, it is not so much as B&M retailers reinforcing doubts on internet purchases as much as online retailers and avid purchases downplay such issues.

Next to houses and cars, diamonds rank as one of the larger purchases made by consumers.

You wouldn't buy a house online without visiting and looking at the house. You wouldn't buy a car without test-driving it. Why would you then buy a diamond without even looking at it?

My problem with some online retailers is that *some* retailers always downplay problems and represent low prices without making clear what consumers will give up for those low prices.

For example the issue of loss in transit. I searched diamondtalk.com with a few key words and here are the threads about this issue:

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7703
http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33905
http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20040
http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16640
http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49158
http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46882
http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44862

There were many more of such threads about loss in transit, and they all describe the worry, anxiety and anger buyers feel when their diamonds may be or are lost in shipment.

However, when I searched in pricescope with the following key words, I did not find any thing at all:

"loss in transit"
"lost shipment"
"lost fedex", "loss fedex"
"lost ups", "loss ups", and so on...

Why is this so? Do all participants in pricescope never have shipment loss problems? This is not an attack on this forum, but it does lead me to wonder why there is no mention about the issue of shipment loss at all.

Not mentioning a problem does not mean it does not exist. It's like President Bush NOT talking about the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq found so far. (Sorry about the political reference, but the parallels were there)

Just my 2 cents worth. This is discussed in the spirit of exchanging information, and I certainly do not mean to attack Pricescope or any of its esteemed users. Also, I hope that no offense will be taken by the fact that I used the threads from diamond.talk during this discussion.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan

----------------
On 5/27/2004 9:25:36 AM csk1975 wrote:

Hi,

Personally I don't understand why someone would try to reinforce the doubts you have about Internet purchases. Sure there may be problems but I had none. I would expect that problems are very rare and shipping from the US to Singapore is simple. Its just a matter of quality and cost - you won't get a cup of tea, flashy lights or a pushy salesperson, but if you stick with people who have a passion for their work - like Nice Ice and Good Old Gold, etc - you will get a better quality, bigger diamond for the same money.
----------------

 

[Consultant]

Hi Akaiyuki,

I totally understand how you feel, I have had the same concerns as you when I started searching for my ideal diamond and thinking of purchasing on-line.

But ultimately, guess I couldn't overcome those uncertainties that comes with on-line purchases. Why don't you try e-mailing this jeweller that I have bought my diamond from, his name is Vern and he is based in Singapore. I believe he will be able to help you. His e-mail address: "[email protected]"

Cheers & all the best!

 

[layman]

Akaiyuki, you need to be comfortable with whichever method of purchasing. All we can share with you is our experience.

Personally, I bought a 0.6 F VS2 H&A diamond online and received it 3 days later. I tracked the shipment over the internet almost 24 hrs a day. When it arrived, I couldn't wait for them to deliver to my home on the following Monday so I drove down to the FedEx collection center at Alexandra on that Saturday to collect it.

I proposed last Sunday and my fiance is crazy over her sparkling stone. Online purchase worked well for me.

But that is just me. Yesterday, I accompanied my friend to purchase his engagement ring from a B&M. To him, he likes to be able to see and touch whatever he buys. I pointed out to him that the table of the stone he is buying is 64% but he still liked the ring.

Ofcourse, the sales person tried hard to convince him that that is still within the 'acceptable' range. So he bought it, mostly because he liked the ring.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what he is doing. He likes what he is paying for and that is all that matters.

I read from another thread that there are quite a few bargains you can pick up from B&M in Singapore

Another Thread

I suggest you go down to the B&M jewellers and look at the certs and price and decide for yourself whether the diamonds are worth buying.

Ofcourse you can posts some of the info on this forum and some kind souls will provide their opinions.

You must like what you buy and be confortable buying it.

But just be careful not to be confused by some fast talking sales person who knows nothing about diamonds. Always give yourself time to consider properly before buying and apply what you have learned from pricescope and other forums.

 

[pricescope]

starfire:

----------------
You wouldn't buy a house online without visiting and looking at the house. You wouldn't buy a car without test-driving it. Why would you then buy a diamond without even looking at it?
-----------------

Consumers usually do not have enough experience to evaluate diamonds (as well as a house or used car) even if they personally look at them. Experienced sales person have enough skills to make a sale. That's why it is recommended (similar to buying a house or used car) to check it with an independent expert. Reliable internet vendors will ship diamonds to independent appraisers for evaluation as well as provide 10-30 days money back guarantee. (Brian Knox even offers 90 days

)

----------------
My problem with some online retailers is that *some* retailers always downplay problems and represent low prices without making clear what consumers will give up for those low prices.
-----------------

Again, reputable vendor should not charge a customer if the shipment was lost.

Bottom line is that consumers can find reputable B&M as well as online vendors. They are capable of making their own decision on who they are comfortable to deal with.

Unfortunately, many B&M vendors used to scare customers away from buying in the Internet by feeding them with horror stories while forgetting that problems can also happen with buying from B&M store as well. Problems can happen with any business. It is up to particular vendor how he/she handles the situation.

 

[starfire]

Hi Leonid,

You are right that most consumers lack the knowledge when they buy diamonds. Most reputable B&M retailers will also be happy to refer customers to reliable gemologists to appraise their diamond. In fact, many diamonds sold in B&M retailers are also certified by GIA/HRD/DPL etc.

Reliable appraisals are not done only by internet retailers.

Your point about potential problems with B&M and online retailers is correct, and I wish that there are more forum users who have views as balanced as yours.

However, I notice that in this forum, there appears to be some people who are rabid fans of online shopping, and will constantly bad-mouth B&M retailers. They will constantly disparage B&M retailers, and denigrate the many important services offered by B&M retailers. This seems to be less a problem from online retailers (who seem pretty professional generally), but more from consumers who appear to have axes to grind.

It gets to a point where the mood in this forum is almost anti-B&M, and I feel that this is an unfair situation and this is why I always offer the viewpoint of a B&M retailer in this forum.

I hope that you will take my views in the spirit they are offered in, and hope for a more balanced atmosphere in this forum.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan

----------------
On 5/28/2004 8:15:15 AM leonid wrote:

starfire:

----------------
-----------------

Consumers usually do not have enough experience to evaluate diamonds (as well as a house or used car) even if they personally look at them. Experienced sales person have enough skills to make a sale. That's why it is recommended (similar to buying a house or used car) to check it with an independent expert. Reliable internet vendors will ship diamonds to independent appraisers for evaluation as well as provide 10-30 days money back guarantee. (Brian Knox even offers 90 days

)

----------------

-----------------

Again, reputable vendor should not charge a customer if the shipment was lost.

Bottom line is that consumers can find reputable B&M as well as online vendors. They are capable of making their own decision on who they are comfortable to deal with.

Unfortunately, many B&M vendors used to scare customers away from buying in the Internet by feeding them with horror stories while forgetting that problems can also happen with buying from B&M store as well. Problems can happen with any business. It is up to particular vendor how he/she handles the situation.
----------------

 

[pricescope]

Starfire:

----------------
However, I notice that in this forum, there appears to be some people who are rabid fans of online shopping, and will constantly bad-mouth B&M retailers.
----------------

In this case you might also want to email GIA President William E. Boyajian that he’s bad-mouthing jewelry retailers. Check out Thoughts from the President: What's Wrong with Retail?: "So, what's wrong with retail in our industry? Not only are many salespeople ignorant about the gem and jewelry products they are selling, but they also lack the knowledge (and positive attitude) of good customer service. At a time when consumers are insisting on accurate information from professional salespeople, this is guaranteed to cost you business."

Please also keep in mind that one of the reasons consumers turn to the Internet is their dissatisfaction with local vendors.

----------------
I ... hope for a more balanced atmosphere in this forum.
----------------

What B&M vendors could do in order to balance the atmosphere is to spend some time helping consumers, educating and answering their questions, not trying to seed doubts to scare consumers away from the internet.

 

[Akaiyuki]

Hi again. Well tks everyone for the advice. Honestly I am still quite unsure about which route to take, but at least I know more. For those who have bought in Singapore from the online retailers (this is going to sound bad) but how did you check that the diamond that you have bought corresponds to the certification? Is there a practice of getting a local GG to certify it? How does the money back work in general? What kind of insurances are involved?

Consultant: Tks for providing Vern's contact. Might I just ask, what kind of diamonds does this particular vendor deal in? H&A? Would he be able to procure AGS certified diamonds?

Layman: Congrats on your proposal.

Wanted to know tho, which online retailer did you engage for your purchase? I have been to the B&M's to date only Soo Kee, Lee Hwa, Aspial & Goldheart... Actually my girl is (so far) quite keen on Destinee wh is on discount also coz of the Great SG sale. Wanted to know, what pushed you over into getting it online. The price? I'll be going ard a bit more this weekend and hrm maybe I will post some prices for comparison.

 

[starfire]

Hi Akaiyuki,

Some certificates will include a laser engraving on the girdle of the diamond. All you need is a loupe (or microscope) to verify that the certificate number corresponds to the engraving.

Otherwise, you can choose to bring the diamond and certificate to one of a few gemologists to get an independent appraisal. Two respected gemologists that we know are Mr Tay Thye Sun and Mr Eric Wong. They charge reasonable prices, and they are known for their integrity in diamond appraisal.

If you need their contact tel numbers, I would be happy to pass them to you.

If you wish to insure your diamond, your best bet might be to include it in your home content insurance. All you need is a valuation of the diamond to be submitted to your insurer. Your gemologist should also be able to issue a written valuation for you.

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

----------------
On 5/28/2004 4:28:05 PM Akaiyuki wrote:

Hi again. Well tks everyone for the advice. Honestly I am still quite unsure about which route to take, but at least I know more. For those who have bought in Singapore from the online retailers (this is going to sound bad) but how did you check that the diamond that you have bought corresponds to the certification? Is there a practice of getting a local GG to certify it? How does the money back work in general? What kind of insurances are involved?


----------------

 

[tomatoe]

----------------
On 5/28/2004 4:28:05 PM Akaiyuki wrote:

Hi again. Well tks everyone for the advice. Honestly I am still quite unsure about which route to take, but at least I know more. For those who have bought in Singapore from the online retailers (this is going to sound bad) but how did you check that the diamond that you have bought corresponds to the certification? Is there a practice of getting a local GG to certify it? How does the money back work in general? What kind of insurances are involved?
----------------

I chose the internet route because I was unhappy with the prices and lack of knowledge & information from the local chainstore retailers like those you have mentioned. I bought a regent from GOG (GoodOldGold) and since it cannot be found in Spore, I took it in to SooKee at Wisma and pretended that it was an e-ring present and I didnt know anything about the diamond except for the shape, approx carat weight, that it was from NY and I wanted to verify the GIA number. They readily agreed to help me and used their loupe on the stone and I looked at the number myself and copied it down. I also casually mentioned that it had H&A and could we use their Brilliant Rose H&A viewer to check. They were very professional, friendly and helpful and it was FREE, there was no need for me to go to an appraiser. SooKee is actually my personal favourite of the chainstore b&m's, they even clean my diamonds for free without any purchase!

And if you mean money-back from the e-vendors, then you'd have to check each of their individual policies.

There is no specific e-ring insurance here, not even with Chubb, which they do have in America and from their website. In Spore, they have a policy that basically covers all valuable items such as antiques, jewelery and such. The good thing is that the Chubb policy covers the items worldwide and they cut a cheque for you for the amount you have insured for instead of buying an item of the same value. When I checked, the other insurance companies dont even have this type of policy.

Good luck

 

[layman]

----------------
On 5/28/2004 4:28:05 PM Akaiyuki wrote:


Layman: Congrats on your proposal.

Wanted to know tho, which online retailer did you engage for your purchase? I have been to the B&M's to date only Soo Kee, Lee Hwa, Aspial & Goldheart... Actually my girl is (so far) quite keen on Destinee wh is on discount also coz of the Great SG sale. Wanted to know, what pushed you over into getting it online. The price? I'll be going ard a bit more this weekend and hrm maybe I will post some prices for comparison.

----------------

I went to superbcert.com but I bought the non branded H&A because they are cheaper and their specs are pretty impressive. If you look at it seriously, they are not much different from Destinee.

In fact, you will realise that the Fuego range of H&A from Soo Kee has noticeable clefts in the hearts pattern? The clefted hearts image is even printed on their brochure, which is suppose to present their best diamond. Yet they charge much more than the unbranded H&A which mostly have perfect hearts patterns.

I got my diamond appraised by the 'Nanyang Gemological Institue' at Shaw Centre. He charges S$30 for appraissals without cert (S$70 with cert). He appraised the diamond without me showing him the cert. After his appraissal, I took out the cert and it matches very well, including the inclusion plot - thus proving the diamond's identity. The laser inscription alone is not enough, the inclusions identify the diamond better. I brought the same diamond to him after setting to check for chips, he charged me S$10 for that.

The Eric Wong that Steven mentioned charges about S$150 - I called Eric Wong personally for his quote.

Why I turned online? Here is my story - warning: could be long and boring:

I knew nothing about diamonds at first, I wanted to get the cheapest diamond that my girlfriend would say 'yes' to and get it over and done with (there are other thing to spend money on, you see). So, we visited a few jewellers in Singapore, Larry, Soo Kee, Lee Hwa, D'Mesyson, Tian Po ... etc.

My first visit was to Tian Po (hehe, thought it was cheaper), I was shown the Hearts On Fire diamond which was really expensive. I was bombarded with the marketing info from HoF and started to be quite interested. At that time I thought H&A was a trademark of HoF.

Then I went D'Meyson and found out that they too had H&A and at a much cheaper price. It then occured to me that H&A is could be a 'commodity'. So, I went on the net to research on H&A and true indeed H&A is sold by Lee Hwa, Soo Kee, etc. I visited all of them. At the same time, I found pricescope.

From what I learned from pricescope, I realised that a diamond's value can be quantified by the 4C and ofcourse HCA, AGA... etc and most importantly by the cut.

My reasoning is, if I can quantify a diamond's quality and beauty - thus value, why should I pay more to a local jeweller for the exact same things I can get cheaper online. It is not like a wedding dress or a designer bag where there is always a difference in quality between the real and counterfeit.

A diamond is a piece of carbon - certified by the same few labs and subjected to the same measurement metrics. Why would the local jeweller's diamond be better than those online? Worse still, the methods of quantifying a diamond's beauty is a lot more advanced online that what the local jewellers know. So there are higher chances you will get better looking diamond online.

So I decided to get better values for my money and went online. So to me, it is all about $$$$ and the value it gets me.

Buying offline has its advantages, I fell in love with diamond so much so that I bought another diamond from Taka for my girlfriend - just to try buying offline. I would say that if you want to buy normal GIA diamonds, buying offline may be quite okay. BUt if you are thinking about buying H&A AGS 000 diamond, the hype and marketing pushed the offline prices so high, it does not make sense.

As I mentioned before, buying online do carry some risks. AS Steven has so eagerly point out in this post.

BTW, have you guys read Steven's links - half of them are about delays in delivery, buying from eBay and Mercier's post about sending presents to her friends (no mention of diamond) and questions about 'who has lost a diamond before'(with no replies regarding losing a diamond). Apprarently, Steven did a search for some keywords and post them wholesale without reading.

So, here is my story. I have absolutely nothing to gain from anyone buying online but I feel that buying online has somehow been given a bad name by parties who definitely have something to gain from giving it one.

BUt, follow Leonid's advice, only buy from reputable online retailer.

 

[Consultant]

Hi, sorry been away... Yes, he deals with all certified diamonds; AGS,GIA,HRD,IGI,EGL....

I bought my AGS certified H&A from him. Good Luck!

 

[tacentvv]

Akaiyuki


Honestly I do not know how people purchase diamonds/jewelry in Singapore. My husband and I married just a couple weeks ago in the Sates. We have lived here around three years. When searching for an engagement ring we looked around and then chose a "reputable" dealer located at Paragon. Honestly, as far as the stone we chose, we are happy. It is the work beyond that, we have the problem with. We had the ring itself custom made and within a month we had to take it back due to hairline cracks and pinholes in the setting surrounding the stone. When it was returned the setting was crooked and within a week of the ring being returned the same thing occured(cracks/pinholes). This has happened once more since(cracks/pinholes). Each time I took the ring in I was initialy blamed for the damage. The third instance after "conversing" heatedly, they admitted that a cosmetic may have been applied in order to fill the holes and cover the cracks. I have only had my ring back a couple of weeks now, and am keeping a close eye on things. Whatever you do, I DO NOT recommend dealing with SENA. Bad workmanship seems to be par for the course with them. They are a waste of time and money.

 

[tacentvv]

Akaiyuki,

On a lighter note from my last post, we did just return earlier this week from our wedding in the States. We purchased our rings through NiceIce.com/Treasures by R J.

For months we searched Singapore and the web. Singapore,in our opinion, doesn't have much of an imagination, when it comes to bridal jewelry. We found our rings on the Tacori website, then posted here searching for Tacori dealers. Online we found little in regards to information on purchasing our styles.

Then Robin and Todd(NiceIce.com/treasures by R J) contacted us via this forum and said they could help. And boy did they. We have never experienced such knowledgable and obliging service(and sense of humour). They answered any quetsions we had, and in our opinion went above and beyond the call of duty when it came to sales and service. We cannot express our grattitude enough for the help they gave us. Personally for online sales of gems/jewelry we recommend them first and formost. They have certainly won us over with thier experince and knowledge of the field. If you haven't already checked them out throughly, DO SO! We cannot say enough good things about them, and if you have any other doubts check out thier website. Not only eduactional, but a complete GAS! If you need anymore positive input for this retailer, just ask, we can't say enough.

Good Luck! And Congarats!
Nigel
and
Candice Basey-Fisher

 

[kevinng]

I just went down to Lee Hwa just now. I must say that the H&A patterns of their 'Destinee' is very consistent and symmetrical. However, the price is really high.

Comparing like for like for like in numbers:

A H&A cut 0.57 carat F Color VVS2 'Destinee' costs S$8623.
On Good Old Gold, it costs only S$4590.

Like you, I am concerned about the problems of purchasing online, so I am hessitant. I wish our local shops won't over-charge us by so much.

 

[starfire]

Layman,

Congratulations on finding your dream diamond.

You are right, basically, there is no intrinsic difference between a branded H&A and a non-branded one.

I recommended Mr Eric Wong, because we have worked with him before and found him to be accurate and professional in his diamond grading. You could also contact Mr Tay Thye Sun for another opinion.

However, there are other gemologists who are known in the trade to be less "strict" in their grading. I do not know "Nanyang Gemological Institute", so I cannot comment. However, I see no reason for you not to get an accurate grading from them.

You are correct that a laser engraving is no real guarantee of authenticity, and identifying a diamond by its physical attributes is more reliable. This is the reason we work with Gemprint for our Gabrielle Diamonds. Gemprint uses a non-invasive, low-powered laser to capture the unique sparkle pattern of each diamond and registers this image in its database.

The owner receives a registration certificate showing the sparkle pattern along with a detailed description of the stone.

My reference to the links were meant to highlight my point. If you choose to interprete it another way, that is alright.

Buying online does have its advantages. My concern is that buying offline has been given a bad name by those who most gain from this as well.

But you seem to be a savvy shopper, and obviously take the time to research your diamond purchases.

However, I am not sure how you "quantify" beauty objectively. Different people have different notions, and different views and every diamond is different. Perhaps you meant this in context of your own likes and dislikes...

Best regards,
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

----------------
On 5/29/2004 11:08:10 PM layman wrote:

----------------
On 5/28/2004 4:28:05 PM Akaiyuki wrote:


----------------

I went to superbcert.com but I bought the non branded H&A because they are cheaper and their specs are pretty impressive. If you look at it seriously, they are not much different from Destinee.

In fact, you will realise that the Fuego range of H&A from Soo Kee has noticeable clefts in the hearts pattern? The clefted hearts image is even printed on their brochure, which is suppose to present their best diamond. Yet they charge much more than the unbranded H&A which mostly have perfect hearts patterns.

I got my diamond appraised by the 'Nanyang Gemological Institue' at Shaw Centre. He charges S$30 for appraissals without cert (S$70 with cert). He appraised the diamond without me showing him the cert. After his appraissal, I took out the cert and it matches very well, including the inclusion plot - thus proving the diamond's identity. The laser inscription alone is not enough, the inclusions identify the diamond better. I brought the same diamond to him after setting to check for chips, he charged me S$10 for that.

The Eric Wong that Steven mentioned charges about S$150 - I called Eric Wong personally for his quote.

Why I turned online? Here is my story - warning: could be long and boring:

I knew nothing about diamonds at first, I wanted to get the cheapest diamond that my girlfriend would say 'yes' to and get it over and done with (there are other thing to spend money on, you see). So, we visited a few jewellers in Singapore, Larry, Soo Kee, Lee Hwa, D'Mesyson, Tian Po ... etc.

My first visit was to Tian Po (hehe, thought it was cheaper), I was shown the Hearts On Fire diamond which was really expensive. I was bombarded with the marketing info from HoF and started to be quite interested. At that time I thought H&A was a trademark of HoF.

Then I went D'Meyson and found out that they too had H&A and at a much cheaper price. It then occured to me that H&A is could be a 'commodity'. So, I went on the net to research on H&A and true indeed H&A is sold by Lee Hwa, Soo Kee, etc. I visited all of them. At the same time, I found pricescope.

From what I learned from pricescope, I realised that a diamond's value can be quantified by the 4C and ofcourse HCA, AGA... etc and most importantly by the cut.

My reasoning is, if I can quantify a diamond's quality and beauty - thus value, why should I pay more to a local jeweller for the exact same things I can get cheaper online. It is not like a wedding dress or a designer bag where there is always a difference in quality between the real and counterfeit.

A diamond is a piece of carbon - certified by the same few labs and subjected to the same measurement metrics. Why would the local jeweller's diamond be better than those online? Worse still, the methods of quantifying a diamond's beauty is a lot more advanced online that what the local jewellers know. So there are higher chances you will get better looking diamond online.

So I decided to get better values for my money and went online. So to me, it is all about $$$$ and the value it gets me.

Buying offline has its advantages, I fell in love with diamond so much so that I bought another diamond from Taka for my girlfriend - just to try buying offline. I would say that if you want to buy normal GIA diamonds, buying offline may be quite okay. BUt if you are thinking about buying H&A AGS 000 diamond, the hype and marketing pushed the offline prices so high, it does not make sense.

As I mentioned before, buying online do carry some risks. AS Steven has so eagerly point out in this post.

BTW, have you guys read Steven's links - half of them are about delays in delivery, buying from eBay and Mercier's post about sending presents to her friends (no mention of diamond) and questions about 'who has lost a diamond before'(with no replies regarding losing a diamond). Apprarently, Steven did a search for some keywords and post them wholesale without reading.

So, here is my story. I have absolutely nothing to gain from anyone buying online but I feel that buying online has somehow been given a bad name by parties who definitely have something to gain from giving it one.

BUt, follow Leonid's advice, only buy from reputable online retailer.----------------

 

[shrubbie]

Hi Akaiyuki,

I haven't been on pricescope for a long time and there were so many threads posted regarding buying diamonds in Singapore.

Not sure if you've found your stone, but I may be able to help.

I just launched a nice and cosy fine jewelry boutique of my own a week ago and I was wondering if you might like to just drop by to have a chat. Strictly no obligations.

I believe in educating my consumers and whatever you need to know about diamonds, I can try my best to help you so you can search for the perfect gift for your bride.

The address of my boutique is as follows:
3 Pickering Street, Nankin Row 01-03
China Square Central, Singapore 048660
(located just beside Great Eastern Building, Raffles Place)

Just give me a buzz at 9295-2462 before you come down as I may be out on client appointment at times. Saturdays and Sundays are cool too if you can't make it on weekdays.

Hope to hear you around,
Genevieve Teo
Creative Director
Lumiere Moments