Ruby Questions, Help me choose one

[llviolet]

Hi lovely fellows! I've been lurking on the forum for a while and this is actually my first post. I wanted a ruby for a while now and I came across Gemsny and found three rubies that I like (untreated/heated and blood red or with a slight pink/purple hue).
These are the stones that caught my eye:
https://www.gemsny.com/loose-ruby/1.58-Carat-Oval-Ruby-RU16068OV/
https://www.gemsny.com/loose-ruby/1.42-Carat-Oval-Ruby-RU16080NOV/
https://www.gemsny.com/loose-ruby/1.31-Carat-Oval-Ruby-RU16095OV/
Since I'm a newbie and I don't have any experience with it, your advice would be very helpful! Thank you all in advance!

 

[LilAlex]

Nice choices. All are a little pink, which can be OK. The last looks like the truest red -- and most "ruby-like" to me. I did not compare dimensions or price per ct, etc., or review in a ton of detail -- I can try, if you'd like, since this is what I've done for my own purchases. African origin is fine and many are cleaner than Burmese and heating can be avoided. I would steer clear of pink-ish hue if for a man's ring, but that's my bias. The line between pink sapphire and ruby seems very fluid...but just like emerald vs. green beryl, the trend seems to be more, er, "inclusive" for the more expensive designation!

I do trust this vendor's photos but my experience is one stone. I have zero industry affiliations and there are many folks here who are much more knowledgeable than I am.

 

[llviolet]

Nice choices. All are a little pink, which can be OK. The last looks like the truest red -- and most "ruby-like" to me. I did not compare dimensions or price per ct, etc., or review in a ton of detail -- I can try, if you'd like, since this is what I've done for my own purchases. African origin is fine and many are cleaner than Burmese and heating can be avoided. I would steer clear of pink-ish hue if for a man's ring, but that's my bias. The line between pink sapphire and ruby seems very fluid...but just like emerald vs. green beryl, the trend seems to be more, er, "inclusive" for the more expensive designation!

I do trust this vendor's photos but my experience is one stone. I have zero industry affiliations and there are many folks here who are much more knowledgeable than I am.

Thank you for your reply! I also prefer “true” red but I’m ok with a little bit of pink hue. I’d really appreciate your detailed reviews, that would help me a lot! Gemstone prices are quite tricky compared to diamonds, since there are so little information on the report.

 

[Bron357]

I like them all. The first two are pink toned, the last one orange / red tone to my eyes.
Colour in rubies is definitely personal. The tones can be varied, some are very pink toned (more pink sapphire but still classed as a ruby) others dark purplish or even red brownish toned.
The supposed “top colour” known as Pigeon blood red is a deep red tone but lots of people actually don’t prefer that colour.
Origin is another thing. Obviously Burmese rubies are held up as the “creme da la creme” but many rubies coming out from Africa are great colours and very transparent.
So buy the one that you love, make sure your vendor has a return policy if when you see it in “real life” it isn’t as you thought.
And keep in mind that as Corundum has a higher specific gravity it’s heavier for its size say compared to diamonds. Check the physical measurements so you know how that size will look on your finger.
I always find they look “bigger” in the photos or videos!

 

[qubitasaurus]

I must be the only disenting opinion as I much prefer these two

https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p367/1.54_ct_Unheated_Ruby.html

https://www.etsy.com/sg-en/listing/...eated-red-ruby-cushion?ref=shop_home_active_9

And some of the options over at gemfix. (In particular I feel like the gemsny stones have tilt windows and while there isnt anything too inherently wrong with that, I still find the tilt windows sufficiently large that they would be a bit distracting. Having said that I'd probably still enquire about #3, see if they will give you a straight on picture on the back of someone's hand.)

 

[LilAlex]

Well, since you asked...

So, in order:

(parameter: stone1, stone2, stone3)

surface area (visual size) estimated using short and long axis only: 43, 34.8, 34 mm2
(pi)*(hemimajor axis)*(hemiminor axis)
(this of course breaks down if comparing a cushion to an oval but these are all similar ovals)
$/ct: $1143, 1273, 1380
$/mm2: $42, 52, 53
longness: 1.27, 1.38, 1.33
shallowness: 0.54, 0.61, 0.56

Vendor is weighting the better red color in the third one ($/ct) but it will face up 20% smaller in area (oomph) than the first one. Looks like you'd be paying a premium for FL clarity in the second one whereas I would accept VVS1. For shallowness, I'm sure there is a real industry metric for this but I just divide the depth by the narrowest dimension. Since they are similarly cut, I think it's how prone they may be to windowing. All are pretty similar, imo. BUT, the more shallow, the more surface area you get per ct, of course, so... The second may be slightly less window-prone as a crude estimate (i.e., it is slightly deeper), if all are cut similarly. The "longness" is not really relevant here (long axis/short axis) since they all are pleasing shapes, imo.

If color is paramount, then #3. If value (bang for the buck), then maybe #1...?

You can see how the Finewater one slots in. I bought one stone from Gary (Braun) and he was a pleasure to deal with and no games.

Caveat: others here will know much more than I do -- this is just how I start to approach "value" and it has been helpful for "similar" stones like your three. It does not weight the esthetics fully (color, symmetry, polish, cut, cut quality, etc). But it does help me understand what the vendors are prioritizing. The surface area is important, imo, because a "small" difference in dimension1 times a "small" difference in dimension2 can lead to a meaningful difference in appearance.

 

[MollyMalone]

Will GemsNY send you photos/video of each stone between fingers or on the back of a hand like, e.g., Gemfix includes with all their listings? That would help you better assess the presence of a true window (not just a tilt window), which I'm concerned those 3 rubies possess. You may decide that a window's presence is indeed tolerable, but it's also possible that you'll think a window makes the stone unattractively dead.

P.S. Have you looked at Gemfix's rubies?
https://gemfix.com/gem-category/ruby

 

[prs]

surface area (visual size) estimated using short and long axis only: 43, 34.8, 34 mm2
(pi)*(hemimajor axis)*(hemiminor axis)
(this of course breaks down if comparing a cushion to an oval but these are all similar ovals)

Hi @LilAlex shouldn't that be pi*(hemimajor axis)*(hemiminor axis)/4

or put more simply for an oval gem: Surface Area=3.142*L*W/4

 

[LilAlex]

Hi @LilAlex shouldn't that be pi*(hemimajor axis)*(hemiminor axis)/4

Hemi is half, so it uses the two "radii." So the "divided by 4" is already in there.

 

[prs]

Sorry, I always thought semi or demi meant half. I now know you can use hemi in front of a word derived from the Greek.

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

My brain just exploded.

 

[metall]

My brain just exploded.

ditto! I was just looking at color LOL

 

[llviolet]

I like them all. The first two are pink toned, the last one orange / red tone to my eyes.
Colour in rubies is definitely personal. The tones can be varied, some are very pink toned (more pink sapphire but still classed as a ruby) others dark purplish or even red brownish toned.
The supposed “top colour” known as Pigeon blood red is a deep red tone but lots of people actually don’t prefer that colour.
Origin is another thing. Obviously Burmese rubies are held up as the “creme da la creme” but many rubies coming out from Africa are great colours and very transparent.
So buy the one that you love, make sure your vendor has a return policy if when you see it in “real life” it isn’t as you thought.
And keep in mind that as Corundum has a higher specific gravity it’s heavier for its size say compared to diamonds. Check the physical measurements so you know how that size will look on your finger.
I always find they look “bigger” in the photos or videos!

I do feel the Pigeon blood red is too dark for my taste. Thanks for the heads-up about carat vs dimensions.

 

[llviolet]

I must be the only disenting opinion as I much prefer these two

https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p367/1.54_ct_Unheated_Ruby.html

https://www.etsy.com/sg-en/listing/...eated-red-ruby-cushion?ref=shop_home_active_9

And some of the options over at gemfix. (In particular I feel like the gemsny stones have tilt windows and while there isnt anything too inherently wrong with that, I still find the tilt windows sufficiently large that they would be a bit distracting. Having said that I'd probably still enquire about #3, see if they will give you a straight on picture on the back of someone's hand.)

The first one is stunning, although I feel the color is a bit too pink. The etsy one is slightly smaller than my preference and I do prefer oval and round over cushion. Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[llviolet]

Well, since you asked...

So, in order:

(parameter: stone1, stone2, stone3)

surface area (visual size) estimated using short and long axis only: 43, 34.8, 34 mm2
(pi)*(hemimajor axis)*(hemiminor axis)
(this of course breaks down if comparing a cushion to an oval but these are all similar ovals)
$/ct: $1143, 1273, 1380
$/mm2: $42, 52, 53
longness: 1.27, 1.38, 1.33
shallowness: 0.54, 0.61, 0.56

Vendor is weighting the better red color in the third one ($/ct) but it will face up 20% smaller in area (oomph) than the first one. Looks like you'd be paying a premium for FL clarity in the second one whereas I would accept VVS1. For shallowness, I'm sure there is a real industry metric for this but I just divide the depth by the narrowest dimension. Since they are similarly cut, I think it's how prone they may be to windowing. All are pretty similar, imo. BUT, the more shallow, the more surface area you get per ct, of course, so... The second may be slightly less window-prone as a crude estimate (i.e., it is slightly deeper), if all are cut similarly. The "longness" is not really relevant here (long axis/short axis) since they all are pleasing shapes, imo.

If color is paramount, then #3. If value (bang for the buck), then maybe #1...?

You can see how the Finewater one slots in. I bought one stone from Gary (Braun) and he was a pleasure to deal with and no games.

Caveat: others here will know much more than I do -- this is just how I start to approach "value" and it has been helpful for "similar" stones like your three. It does not weight the esthetics fully (color, symmetry, polish, cut, cut quality, etc). But it does help me understand what the vendors are prioritizing. The surface area is important, imo, because a "small" difference in dimension1 times a "small" difference in dimension2 can lead to a meaningful difference in appearance.

Wow, thank you! So many information to digest!

 

[llviolet]

My brain just exploded.

LOL... I was only looking at the color as well So many parameters to consider. Thank god I'm not in a rush and I want to buy one by Thanksgiving this year.

 

[llviolet]

Will GemsNY send you photos/video of each stone between fingers or on the back of a hand like, e.g., Gemfix includes with all their listings? That would help you better assess the presence of a true window (not just a tilt window), which I'm concerned those 3 rubies possess. You may decide that a window's presence is indeed tolerable, but it's also possible that you'll think a window makes the stone unattractively dead.

P.S. Have you looked at Gemfix's rubies?
https://gemfix.com/gem-category/ruby

I'm looking right now

 

[llviolet]

Gemfix doesn't seem to have many options right now and most are heated. So how will the heat treatment affect the value/look of stone? Thank you all for your suggestions and help!

 

[princessandthepear]

The majority of rubies in the world are heat treated. It is a very rare ruby that is not heat treated. I would be more concerned about the degree of flux or filling in a ruby's fissures.

 

[qubitasaurus]

If you are considering second hand resale value you should probably check recent second hand transactions on untreated rubies

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...eated-mozambique-ruby-and-diamond-ring-in-18-

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...diamond-ring-with-video-in-18-kt-yellow;15582


Keep in mind that if the stone is windowed (or even has a very bad tilt window, such that it looks like it has a dead spot in the centre from almost all angles) then its resale options on loupetroop wont be especially good. Afterwards clarity (gemsny stones are a bit cleaner) and colour in less artificial lighting will also have a huge impact. Would need much better photos of the gemsny stones to assess these factors properly. I agree with princessandthepear it is more critical that there are no flux residues.

 

[princessandthepear]

Why don't you look on Pearlman's Jewelers.com They have a wide variety of cuts and price points so you can develop an eye for cut and color by looking at their pictures and descriptions. If you find a ruby that you like then ask them for some in hand photos in daylight and indoor light(LED/fluorescent). They could also set it for you. I have purchased from them and would purchase from them again.

 

[princessandthepear]

https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G89363
https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G87268
htpps://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G89208
https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones??sku=G88011
The first two are ovals and the second two are rounds. The last one has a pink tinge.

 

[LilAlex]

LOL... I was only looking at the color as well So many parameters to consider. Thank god I'm not in a rush and I want to buy one by Thanksgiving this year.

Well, you asked for it -- I didn't volunteer it at first!

I'm sure I'm not alone. It's like buying a house or a used car or a camera, etc. I find that a lot of the vendor pricing mystery disappears when I do this -- try to be objective. And if there are multiple stones per vendor, I can even get some idea about relative pricing among vendors (assuming one vendor's stones aren't all precision-cut or Burmese or unheated, etc.). I have limited resources so I need to make my dollars count!

 

[llviolet]

https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G89363
https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G87268
htpps://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G89208
https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones??sku=G88011
The first two are ovals and the second two are rounds. The last one has a pink tinge.

Thank you so much! I can't open the links, it says "might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address". Not sure if it's because of the firewalls at work place.

 

[llviolet]

The majority of rubies in the world are heat treated. It is a very rare ruby that is not heat treated. I would be more concerned about the degree of flux or filling in a ruby's fissures.

I'm thinking of getting an untreated/unheated ruby. Is it worth it to pay the extra to get one, for example, looking similar with similar dimensions/carats/colors (to naked eyes anyway)?

 

[llviolet]

If you are considering second hand resale value you should probably check recent second hand transactions on untreated rubies

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...eated-mozambique-ruby-and-diamond-ring-in-18-

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...diamond-ring-with-video-in-18-kt-yellow;15582


Keep in mind that if the stone is windowed (or even has a very bad tilt window, such that it looks like it has a dead spot in the centre from almost all angles) then its resale options on loupetroop wont be especially good. Afterwards clarity (gemsny stones are a bit cleaner) and colour in less artificial lighting will also have a huge impact. Would need much better photos of the gemsny stones to assess these factors properly. I agree with princessandthepear it is more critical that there are no flux residues.

Photos of Gemsny are quite "deceiving" when compared to some other sites, if it makes sense. I don't think I would sell it in the future, but it's always good to know that it's holding its value.

 

[llviolet]

Well, you asked for it -- I didn't volunteer it at first!

I'm sure I'm not alone. It's like buying a house or a used car or a camera, etc. I find that a lot of the vendor pricing mystery disappears when I do this -- try to be objective. And if there are multiple stones per vendor, I can even get some idea about relative pricing among vendors (assuming one vendor's stones aren't all precision-cut or Burmese or unheated, etc.). I have limited resources so I need to make my dollars count!

I agree with you. I have a lot to research before I make the decision.

 

[llviolet]

And anyone bought rubies from James Allen?

 

[voce]

If you're still looking, then I recommend this 2.08ct unheated ruby from Mozambique--
https://skyjems.ca/collections/certified-gemstones/products/giar1014

I find the vendor to be honest and offers gems at very good prices. He posts 5-min long videos where you can continuously view the stone at all the angles. Most of his rubies are sold out, but this one is still up. Comes GIA certified.

 

[LilAlex]

I find the vendor to be honest and offers gems at very good prices. He posts 5-min long videos where you can continuously view the stone at all the angles. Most of his rubies are sold out, but this one is still up. Comes GIA certified.

"...Squat oval...fairly well cut..."

it seems deep -- almost drum-shaped -- and a lot of the mass is "wasted," imo. Pretty color, though.

I could go for a much shorter video with much closer view of the stone!

I was wrong in my $ math above -- I had the prices from some other stones in my spreadsheet ().

actual (1, 2, and 3l:

$/ct: $4941, 5490, 4392
$mm^2: $181, 224, 169