Ruby Clarity Education

[Rad_Fan]

After reading the brief discussion on ruby clarity by @TreeScientist & @T L, I want to learn more on how to distinguish between silky & sleepy silk.

Are these woven fiber like considered to be silk? Then, would you call all 3 rubies sleepy?

 

[voce]

I'm tempted to call all 3 sleepy, though to be fair, the pictures you provide are all around 30x magnification, and I believe @TreeScientist was referring to the very fine silk that's visible at high magnification but not visible to the eye. It would be more scientific to have a non-magnified hand shot to compare. In your three examples, I don't see any facets reflected up through the table, which is why I think there's no brilliance in these. I know @T L says ruby is all about the color, but when there is no brilliance and there is only body color, it may be a ruby, but it wouldn't be a fine ruby to me.

 

[T L]

I'm tempted to call all 3 sleepy, though to be fair, the pictures you provide are all around 30x magnification, and I believe @TreeScientist was referring to the very fine silk that's visible at high magnification but not visible to the eye. It would be more scientific to have a non-magnified hand shot to compare. In your three examples, I don't see any facets reflected up through the table, which is why I think there's no brilliance in these. I know @T L says ruby is all about the color, but when there is no brilliance and there is only body color, it may be a ruby, but it wouldn't be a fine ruby to me.

What I meant was I would take a fine color ruby any day over a lesser quality precision cut one. They’re not really judged on cut as they are on color, which is why there are so many windowed rubies that are $$$$$$. However, you don’t want an opaque one either, or so sleepy, it looks almost opaque.

There are sleepy rubies that are very prized and expensive, but if the same stone was clean, it would be far more valuable.

 

[T L]

The above three rubies are sleepy and included. The silk makes them sleepy and those “fibers”
are larger inclusions.

 

[T L]

My pear and triilion spinel in this page have silk. The pear is slightly sleepy but still sparkles. The trillion has silk, but it’s not really noticeable. However, it does always look bright, no darkish spots, which is the effect of that silk. It also sparkles. The trillion is always bright looking even in very dim light.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...wearing-today-show-me-your-cs.212480/page-134

 

[Rad_Fan]

Just to make it easier to compare...

Isn't spinel "cleaner" than ruby most of the time?

 

[T L]

Just to make it easier to compare...

Isn't spinel "cleaner" than ruby most of the time?

Probably, but since you were asking about silk, it’s very comparable in rubies vs spinels and how they look.

 

[Rad_Fan]

Ok used to think that I would like more translucent rubies but recently I came across one that was sleepy but caught my heart as it was more glowy than the other clearer rubies.

Lower left pic is my attempt at capturing the glow. Unheated Mozambique.

@icy_jade calls it "sleepy" but hers is definitely less silk than the 3 I posted above, right?

Because of the "finner" silk so it makes it look even, I am not sure what I am trying to say here...?

 

[Rad_Fan]

I'm tempted to call all 3 sleepy, though to be fair, the pictures you provide are all around 30x magnification, and I believe @TreeScientist was referring to the very fine silk that's visible at high magnification but not visible to the eye. It would be more scientific to have a non-magnified hand shot to compare. In your three examples, I don't see any facets reflected up through the table, which is why I think there's no brilliance in these. I know @T L says ruby is all about the color, but when there is no brilliance and there is only body color, it may be a ruby, but it wouldn't be a fine ruby to me.

Good points. I purposely posted pictures which emphasized the clarity for reference.

 

[Bron357]

Silk (Rutile inclusions) in rubies or sapphire are not usually visible to the naked eye, except when excessive and this turns the ruby “milky” or translucent. The inclusions in the photos appear to be fissures or fingerprint inclusions.
None of them appear to have much “glow” and that’s probably the most valued attribute of ruby. That’s why Burmese are so expensive, they have a magic glow even in low light.

 

[Rad_Fan]

Are these slight better? Less/evenly included, more saturated, & slightly more glow? They still are less "crisp" than spinel.

 

[T L]

They’re nice rubies, and lovely color, but a little too sleepy for my taste, which is why I’ll never own a ruby. I don’t care for sleepy stones that much (personal taste), and I bet those gems are still extraordinarily expensive.

 

[T L]

Here’s a sleepy Burma ruby recently auctioned off.

 

[T L]

I preferred Elizabeth Taylor’s ruby, it was cleaner.

 

[Rad_Fan]

Here’s a sleepy Burma ruby recently auctioned off.

Thanks for sharing!

I would take a decent ruby over pink diamond anytime! The color is so washed off on most FPD...

 

[T L]

Thanks for sharing!

I would take a decent ruby over pink diamond anytime! The color is so washed off on most FPD...

On most, but not all. Some pink diamonds are from another world, they’re so beautiful.

Red diamonds are unattractive.

 

[Rad_Fan]

Red diamonds are unattractive.

Really? Do tell!

Ok, I need to see more FP IRL...no idea from where. Only tried on FY and realized that NOTHING looks good on me below FVY

 

[T L]

Very dark and little sparkle like a diamond should have. Just like any gem, if the color is too dark, it can be unattractive, diamonds are no exception. Of course, it’s the rarest color of diamond, so the most expensive.

 

[voce]

Are these slight better? Less/evenly included, more saturated, & slightly more glow? They still are less "crisp" than spinel.

The top one and the bottom one, there's more than silk inclusions. All these have uneven colors. I don't consider the last one sleepy, but the uneven color makes it an unappealing silky.

I would consider the ruby from Wildfish Gems that @VividRed bought to have the very appealing kind of silk in rubies. It is certainly silky instead of sleepy, because there's brilliance in addition to glow.

 

[Rad_Fan]

The top one and the bottom one, there's more than silk inclusions. All these have uneven colors. I don't consider the last one sleepy, but the uneven color makes it an unappealing silky.

I would consider the ruby from Wildfish Gems that @VividRed bought to have the very appealing kind of silk in rubies. It is certainly silky instead of sleepy, because there's brilliance in addition to glow.

I remember that pear...

 

[Bron357]

Sorry the right is out of focus (sitting higher as it just a ring holder) but the left one is much crisper vs more glow.

 

[VividRed]

Sorry the right is out of focus (sitting higher as it just a ring holder) but the left one is much crisper vs more glow.

That ruby is mesmerizing!

 

[VividRed]

Here my little Wildfish ruby. Last picture horrible and low res but it shows just how saturated the color is

 

[T L]

Nice blue undertones on the Wildfish ruby! Typical Burma color.

 

[TreeScientist]

They’re nice rubies, and lovely color, but a little too sleepy for my taste, which is why I’ll never own a ruby. I don’t care for sleepy stones that much (personal taste), and I bet those gems are still extraordinarily expensive.

Excellent discussion so far. As already pointed out, the 3 rubies in the OP are definitely sleepy and overly included. As @T L mentioned, most of the rubies that normal humans can afford in any significant size are heavily included and dull. There's fine Burmese rubies out there that are ever so slightly included and perfectly silky/glow-y, but you're going to be paying $$$$$$$ for those in anything over 1 carat, especially if they're unheated.

I agree with @T L: I much prefer red spinels, because a decent-sized red spinel with beautiful glow is still within the reach of mere mortals.

 

[T L]

Excellent discussion so far. As already pointed out, the 3 rubies in the OP are definitely sleepy and overly included. As @T L
I agree with @T L: I much prefer red spinels, because a decent-sized red spinel with beautiful glow is still within the reach of mere mortals.

I’m not so sure anymore. By the way, I love rubies, just not any I can afford!

 

[TreeScientist]

I’m not so sure anymore. By the way, I love rubies, just not any I can afford!

Exactly. Elizabeth Taylor’s ruby that you posted above is amazing, but that stone probably represent 20 years of my salary haha.

Red spinels have definitely gone crazy recently, but by mere mortals, I meant one can get a decent sized, glow-y red spinel for $10-20k if the proper avenues are pursued.Try getting a decent 2 carat unheated ruby for anywhere close to $20k.

 

[T L]

Exactly. Elizabeth Taylor’s ruby that you posted above is amazing, but that stone probably represent 20 years of my salary haha.

Red spinels have definitely gone crazy recently, but by mere mortals, I meant one can get a decent sized, glow-y red spinel for $10-20k if the proper avenues are pursued.Try getting a decent 2 carat unheated ruby for anywhere close to $20k.

Most people won’t make enough in a lifetime of work to afford her ruby. I think it sold for 8 million and it’s a considerable bargain compared to some recent ruby sales. Nuts!!!

 

[TreeScientist]

Most people won’t make enough in a lifetime of work to afford her ruby. I think it sold for 8 million and it’s a considerable bargain compared to some recent ruby sales. Nuts!!!

...Okay that is....... slightly more than 20 years salary for me.

 

[T L]

Well I think her ruby is just about as perfect as it gets. You can tell she wore it quite a bit, because there’s facet abrasions if you look closely. They’re much more evident in the auction catalog photos. It has silk, but just the right amount.

I hate to say it, but I’m not a fan of the one I linked to in the auction video. It’s too sleepy for my taste, not that I would turn it away if someone gave it to me.

I like the color on Liz’s better as well, but I don’t know how accurate the video is depicting that sleepy ruby. It is enormous though.