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Round Brilliant Comparison - Which One Would You Choose?

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ElonSig

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
13
Hello All,

New to the forum. Looks like there are alot of great people and valuable information. I am in the market for an engagement ring and am hoping you can help me with some objective advice. I am looking for a round brilliant, shy 1 ct, G-H, VS1-VS2, with a Class I-II cut. Below are the specs on 3 diamonds I have chosen from 3 different local jewelers. Any advice you can provide will be greatly appreciated. I''m really targeting a diamond that has great brilliance and good light return, I really want this thing to sparkle! I have followed the GIA Class II cut proportions listed in Fred Cuellar''s book to choose the below diamonds. If I''m totally off-base and need to go back to the drawing board, I can accept that too! Thank you in advance for any support you can provide!

Diamond #1
Shape Round
Weight - 0.90
Clarity - VS1
Color - G
GIA Cut Grade - Very Good
Total Depth - 60.9%
Table Area - 54.0%
Crown Angle - 35.0 deg
Crown Height - 16.0%
Girdle Thickness - Thin
Pavilion Angle - 40.4 deg
Pavilion Depth - 42.50%
Symmetry - Very Good
Polish - Excellent
Culet - None
Fluorescence - None

*Note, the above figures for Diamond #1 are based on the GIA certificate. I also had a SARIN report run and it provided some figures that were slightly different. The table percentage was listed at 58%, pavilion angle at 40.00, crown height 14.75%, pavilion depth at 41.89%, total depth at 60.0. Also, the crown angles on the top-view SARIN report vary from 34.9 deg to 35.5 deg. Is this a "warped" diamond?

Price $5,310
Jeweler - Mervis Diamond Importers (Highest reputation of the 3 jewelers)

Diamond #2
Shape Round
Weight 0.90
Clarity VS2
Color G
GIA Cut Grade Excellent
Total Depth 60.9%
Table Area 58.0%
Crown Angle 33.5 deg
Crown Height 14.0%
Girdle Thickness Thin - Slightly Thick
Pavilion Angle 40.8 deg
Pavilion Depth 43.00%
Symmetry Very Good
Polish Excellent
Culet None
Fluorescence None

Price $5,700
Jeweler Jared - The Galleria of Jewelry

Diamond #3
Shape Round
Weight 0.93
Clarity VS2
Color H
GIA Cut Grade Excellent
Total Depth 61.0%
Table Area 58.0%
Crown Angle 35 deg
Crown Height 14.6%
Girdle Thickness Medium - Slightly Thick
Pavilion Angle 41.2 deg
Pavilion Depth 43.50%
Symmetry Very Good
Polish Very Good
Culet None
Fluorescence Faint

Price $5,314
Jeweler - Charleston Alexander Diamond Imports


Also, some info on the policies for each jeweler:

Mervis (Diamond #1)
1) Lifetime Trade Up Policy -- May trade in diamond at original purchase price with no limitations.
2) Return/Exchange -- Cash back for 14 days.

Jared (Diamond #2)
1) Lifetime Diamond Guarantee -- Will replace diamond if it chips, breaks, or is lost from its original setting.
2) Lifetime Trade Up Policy -- May trade in diamond at original purchase price for another diamond at least double the trade-in value.
3) Return/Exchange -- Cash back for 30 days, equal exchange for 6 months.

Charleston (Diamond #3)
1) One-Year Diamond Guarantee -- Will replace diamond if it separates from its original setting.
2) Lifetime Trade Up Policy -- May trade in diamond at original purchase price with no limitations.
3) Return/Exchange -- Cash back for 15 days.

 

avlis

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
237
i got to tell ya, i''m not really in lopve with any of those. I really dont like the double price trade-in policy of #2.

are you sold on buying in a local BM?
 

ElonSig

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
13
Thank you for the input. I agree, the trade-in policy for Jared seems very weak. I am not 100% sold on using a B&M jeweler but I would prefer to go that route. I am open to an internet vendor if it makes sense. With the resale value of diamonds so low, I am interested in a jeweler who has a lifetime trade-in policy, just in case we decide to upgrade some day. My concern is the stability of a online vendor versus a B&M store, who knows if an online jeweler will be around in 10 years. The same can be said for a B&M establishment, but I feel like the chances are better that a B&M is still around to honor their guarantee several years down the road. I am open to any suggestions. Thanks again!

Best Regards,
Brad
 

avlis

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
237
well, there is always the hybrid jeweler. GoG is both a B&M and a online vendor. thier prices are good, and they have been in business since 1980.



Link
 

ElonSig

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
13
I am doing some more research into the online jewelers, as you recommended. While I''m doing that, what are your thoughts on this alternative from Mervis?

Price - $5,544
Shape - Round Brilliant
Weight - .90 cts
Color - H
Clarity - VS1
Cut Grade - AGS Ideal 0
Total Depth - 61.5%
Crown Angle - 34.4 deg
Pavilion Angle - 41.0 deg
Table - 56.2%
Crown Height - 15%
Pavilion Depth - 43.2%
Girdle - 1.1% to 3.9% F
Polish - Ideal
Symmetry - Ideal
Light Performance - 0
Proportion Factors - 0
Finish - 0
Fluorescence - Negligible

Thanks,
Brad
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
seems fine. could you add diameter dimensions when posting proportions?
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Brad,

Your last option seems best, and given all, your first option from Mervis seems like it might be #2 (though too bad Mervis is smarmy to me). I like option #2 as possible, too, and Jared is available around the country, but your concern about trading up could be an issue. Forget about #3. Fred may like it, but it looses on the HCA analysis you're encouraged to consider on this board.

Unless you want to check this one out, or perhaps some others on the big db here, going local may work for you...

BTW, I'm in Bethesda.

While you're here, check out the tutorial, and read what many think of Fred on this board. Generally, when in any doubt, best to consider more than one system/set of criteria (i.e., Fred's, HCA, AGS, etc.) for determining whether a diamond is well cut or not.

Good shopping!
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
I just wanted to throw my opinion into the mix. I think you should go online because you definitely get the most for your money there. I found a 1 carat diamonds on Whiteflash.com that is an H/VS2 expert selection. It''s $4910 and they do offer a Pricescope/wire transfer discount so that would bring the price down even more.

As a woman, I would definitely want that extra .1 of a carat so I could tell all my friends it''s a one carat instead of almost a carat. Just my 2 cents!
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Hi Elonsig and welcome to Pricescope!


Have you used the Holloway Cut Advisor tool? You can access it from the "Tools" menu in the main toolbar above. Generally you want a diamond that scores around or below a 2. Running your first 3 diamonds, here where they scores:

#1: 0.6 using GIA numbers, 1.3 using Sarin numbers
#2: 1.0
#3: 3.6

I feel a little confused by the huge variation on #1 between the GIA numbers and the Sarin. To go from a 54% table to a 58% is a lot. #2 seems nice, but the trade-up policy is tough. I think #3 can be discarded.

Try to run this cut advisor on the diamonds you are considering - it''s a great tool!
 

ElonSig

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
13
Thank you, Julie and Ira! Appreciate your advice.
The measurements for that last Mervis stone are 6.20 - 6.25 x 3.82 mm. Does that help?

I am going to continue to look for possibilities online and at local jewelers. I have been researching for several months but just started to get into the stores last week. I value quality more than I do size and I''m realizing that, as long as I can stay at H-VS2 or better, cut is the most important quality to me. When comparing online jewelers to local jewelers, is the cost savings my biggest gain or, in your opinion, are the quality of diamonds better with some of the online jewelers that have been recommended on this website, e.g., WF, JamesAllen, GOG, etc.?

Ira, I noticed that the stone you recommended had a depth percentage of 62.5%. I was originally following the 61% rule and have only recently expanded my options to depth percentages of 62% or lower. I understand that many other factors go into a well-proportioned diamond, but, are diamonds over 62% normally a great option? Thanks again.

Best Regards,
Brad
 

ElonSig

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
13
Thank you Thing2of2 and StarryEyed. Great advice. I will have to check into the Holloway tool.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Date: 4/6/2007 9:49:09 AM
Author: ElonSig

Ira, I noticed that the stone you recommended had a depth percentage of 62.5%. I was originally following the 61% rule and have only recently expanded my options to depth percentages of 62% or lower. I understand that many other factors go into a well-proportioned diamond, but, are diamonds over 62% normally a great option? Thanks again.

Best Regards,
Brad
Brad,

Lots of reasonable questions can be asked about the diamond I mentioned. WF themselves only give it one star, but this, based on the category from which they pulled it into their db. One factor there...it is virtual. But..I think they give other virtual options, even from EGL, higher stars. So why only one star?

What it DOES come with is a cert giving it AGS0, with zero for light performance. This can count for a lot, and caused (and causes) me to not be concerned about the depth. Taking a more conservative approach, the AGA charts (and other resources) will agree that 62.5 depth keeps it from tops. Also, it is probable this will help explain it's attractive price. Probably it indicates it won't have as big a spread as it might. But...the cert gives it a good test for performance on cut...and if you're otherwise inclined, for example, to consult with WF anyway...this might be a good one to reference with them.

I saw no others on the search by cut db to draw your attention to...causing me to search wider, and find that one.

Regards,
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
I have purchased from both WhiteFlash and Good Old Gold. But if your concern is that a vendor not be strictly an internet business, I will tell you that Good Old Gold is a family operated brick-and-mortar store located in NY. They have been in business for a long time and there are photos of the store and staff online. They have highest integrity and a very good trade-in policy. So I would not consider that there is a risk in buying from them from the standpoint of new internet companies being risky. Also, Winfield''s is an established B&M store who carries a smaller selection, but he has some very fine stones as well.
 

ElonSig

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
13
Thoughts on these 3 from Jonathan?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3037/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2987/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3038/

Which of these do you recommend, and, how do they compare to the Mervis Ideal, H-VS1:

Price - $5,544
Shape - Round Brilliant
Weight - .90 cts
Color - H
Clarity - VS1
Measurements: 6.20 - 6.25 x 3.82 mm
Cut Grade - AGS Ideal 0
Total Depth - 61.5%
Crown Angle - 34.4 deg
Pavilion Angle - 41.0 deg
Table - 56.2%
Crown Height - 15%
Pavilion Depth - 43.2%
Girdle - 1.1% to 3.9% F
Polish - Ideal
Symmetry - Ideal
Light Performance - 0
Proportion Factors - 0
Finish - 0
Fluorescence - Negligible

Thanks,
Brad
 

boston_jeff

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
623

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Brad,

Earlier, I was trying to better your H, so did not attend to options with H

GOG is a fine purveyor. Also, the author of the HCA tool looks at all scores under an ostensible threshold, and regards them somewhat equal, until viewed further. Two important things to note: He''s informally revised that threshold up to about 2.5 from 2. Also, he regards AGS clearance of options as AGS0 as a stricter test than HCA can give. So...to the extent your 3 options all meet these tests, you''re good.

More info always helps. Having a local vendor helps. Nice to have options.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
The 3 you picked from GOG would I''m sure be nice. And you can always ask for more info on the 2 that don''t have much.

And as Ira pointed out, in the future the scores on these would be lower. However, the HCA is really just to weed out undesirables. It can''t truly know what a stone looks like, or how well, or not, it will perform. When you have as much info on a stone as GOG gives, you really don''t need it anymore.


Also, I''m not sure why you are not considering SI1''s, but it IS possible to get totally eyeclean ones. If you entertained that thought, it would bump your size up, which most girls wouldn''t argue with.


I found two options, you could at least ask about the clarity.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3002/

And this one has strong fluorescence, which could help it face up brighter. You would want to make sure it is not adversely affecting it, pretty unlikely though. And of course clarity again.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3000/
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
1,864
No 61 ''rule'' - do a thread search on Fred Cuellar here and you will realize he uses a lot of scare tactics (presumably to make you feel you have to buy from him as you will be fearful you will get ripped off by everyone else). I started out reading his stuff, but learned so much more from the tutorials here (under the knowledge button at the top of the page), and from simply reading (obsessively!) posts and asking people for help - everyone here is really nice and very helpful.

AGA cut charts are posted on the tutorials too, Old Miner who posts here actually created them!

As long as the other proportions are good, you can go over 61 depth. You won''t ''fall off a cliff'' by taking the next step (as Fred likes to use as an analogy)

Hang out around here for a little while and you gather enough info to get a truly breathtaking diamond!!
 
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