Rose Cut Woes-Please help!! -New Update

[2Artists]

I don''t know if any of you remember the story I posted a while back, the original post is here.
Well, it''s been a few months now but no happy ending to the saga. Everyone here was so kind and knowledgeable, I don''t think I got back to everyone''s replies correctly because I was otherwise occupied.

Anyway, short version of the story is this: I filed a claim with Paypal, had my family lawyer send a letter to the seller. All to no avail. I tried communicating extensively with the seller, citing the independent appraisal that I had done, plus the fact that there were large visible defects in the diamond that had been sold to me as having none. The seller refused to accept a return or issue a refund, stating, among other things, that "I SOLD YOU A GENUINE DIAMOND RING AND YOU RECEIVED THE EXACT DIAMOND RING!!"
Dealing with Paypal was a tedious, nearly 2-month long process as I sent them over half a dozen emails with pictures of the item and the independent appraisal that I had done. I also tried faxing it 3 times and sending it by registered mail 2-3 times before they actually acknowledged receipt of any documentation. (They kept telling me they couldn''t get email attachments, weren''t receiving the faxes I sent, etc.) I was on the phone with them almost daily for about 6 weeks. Then finally I got the first positive confirmation by email that they had received faxed documents (this at about 10PM one night), only to find that 5 hours later (~3AM the next morning) another email stating that the case was closed and they had found in favor of the seller. I called the next day and only then found out that they had only received part of the fax and couldn''t read it so they had closed the case. So it was appealed immediately as they had ample records of our phone conversations and my numerous attempts to send them my documentation.
The appeal was eventually denied as well, much to my surprise. Since then, I replied with a negative feedback on eBay to the seller. They responded to me in kind. Here''s the feedback and responses from both parties:

My eBay feedback for them:

Not as described.1/2 ct smaller, I1 not VS1-2, O not H. Refused return or refund
Dec-25-07 22:43

• Reply by (seller) (Dec-27-07 17:4:
• Had item a month,2 long change of heart. SNAD me but buyer lost Too remorseful.

• Follow-up by (me) (Jan-05-08 11:30):
• Fact remains:item not as described.No need to attack my character pls refund

Their eBay feedback for me:

BEWARE!BUYER REMORSED! FILED SNAD, FOUND GUILTY OF FRAUD BY PAYPAL
Dec-27-07 16:51

• Reply by (me) (Dec-27-07 20:40):
• Reported discrepancy w/in 24 hrs.Ind''t appraiser horrified.No fraud found by Ppl

• Follow-up by (seller) (Dec-28-07 12:36):
• (buyer) is a malicious troublemaker,out to get you when you prosper,pls beware


I also just found this lovely note on one of their latest jewelry listings (just ending in a few minutes here: "WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS WHAT YOU GET.  I AM A GOOD SELLER AND I TRY TO GIVE FORTH HONEST AND TRUTHFUL INFO REGARDING ITEMS I HAVE HERE LISTED.  BUT I WANT TO INFORM EBAYERS THAT THERE IS A MALICIOUS TROLL TRYING TO DESTROY MY REPUTATION. SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO GET MY ITEM FOR FREE AND HAS GIVEN ME PROBLEMS FOR THE 3 MONTHS."

Needless to say if they''re referring to me, I simply asked for a refund and return, not a free ring! And I let them know on day one that the ring was misrepresented, though they keep emphasizing ''buyer''s remorse'' etc. Paypal found in their favor as to the item not being as described, but they didn''t find me "guilty of fraud"!!?? It''s horrible to have my name being slandered like this.

So now I am left with a ring that does not work for my wife''s wedding ring, not to mention that she had a really skimpy Christmas as a result. She''s not even sure she wants a wedding ring anymore after this experience! Anyway, I''d like to try and sell this ring but I will be scrupulously honest about what it is. My integrity is of utmost value to me and I''d hate for someone else to go through what I did with this. If anyone here has a good suggestion as to how or where I might best sell this ring, I''d appreciate it. It''s not a horrible ring per se, I realize somebody might like it because of it''s size but for me it was described as something else so it doesn''t work for me.

 

[2Artists]

By the way, I had 150+ positive feedback on eBay, no negatives ever, before this experience

 

[slyons29]

So so sorry that this did not work out for you! Are there no other options to clear your name/feedback on ebay?

I remember your original posts and it seemed clear that this ring (though lovely in its own way and LARGE like a lot of us want!) was not as descirbed and we know you took action ASAP.

What does your lawyer think??????????

Good luck.

sl

 

[2Artists]

No other options I know of except mutually retracting feedback-At the beginning of this whole thing after we had tried to return the ring and they refused-they emailed us demanding good feedback saying that it was their right and they deserved it and demanded that positive feedback be left for them. At this point I really want to deal with them as little as possible. They are slandering our name etc. We reported them to ebay who told us to deal with Paypal who did nothing to help us. Our lawyer thinks we should steer clear of this person in light of everything. We were willing to take the risk of leaving negative feedback to protect other buyers from having their dreams broken too.

 

[sera]

I remember your OP... I had hoped this would have had a happy ending.

I''m really surprised PayPal found in favor of them when the ring was not as described.

I would have left the negative feedback as well (knowing they return false-negative feedback on me). When I''m reading the feedback on someone I may bid on, if they have a negative feedback, I check out the eBayer who left because I know things like this happen.

Sorry you''ve gone through this. Hopefully others won''t go through the same thing after reading your story.

 

[HeartingDiamonds]

Sorry to hear about this. This is simply horrible.

I applaud your decision to move on, and try to sell the ring to someone who will love it for what it is, and simply chalk the loss to a lesson learned. I personally buy (and sell) on Ebay myself and have had my share of duds myself. However, all in all, my great buys still outweigh the few duds I have bought so I keep buying on Ebay. I know that a LOT of people wont even touch Ebay with a 10-ft pole and understandably so

.

Goodluck to you, and I do hope that you and your wife find the ring of her dreams soon!

 

[2Artists]

I was suprised that Paypal found in their favor too it made no sense to me-I had an excellent independent appraisal stating how grossly misrepresented the ring was, pictures, proof and everything. It wasn''t even close to the color cut clarity or color they listed. According to our great appraiser it was even mounted upsidedown! I hope that no one else goes through this and that people can learn from reading my story.

 

[erica k]

i am so sorry to hear about all that negative feedback. if it makes you feel any better, whenever i look at negative feedback on ebay, i tend to be skeptical of sellers who type in all caps and have major typos/poor grammar. their rebuttals tend to be shrill, bordering on hysterics. it makes me think that the seller has some anger management issues and probably won''t be the best person to deal with in case the transaction goes awry.

i''ve heard so many bad things about the way ebay and paypal handle these types of disputes. unless it''s signed pieces or from someone with 100% positive feedback for similar items, i tend to steer clear of them.

 

[2Artists]

Yes-I know what you mean-good buys can be found on ebay-and I have done buying and selling there also-there are good and bad things to be found. Its a shame some people can wreck stuff for everyone. Sadly for me the bad has way outweighed the good.

 

[2Artists]

It cheers me a bit and I don''t suppose that my feedback matters much now anyways since this doesn''t make me want to sell more stuff on ebay-plus we sold all that we could sell pretty much trying to raise funds for the ring etc. I just hate having someone say that stuff about us all things considered.

 

[slyons29]

I''ve bought so many different types of things on ebay and have only had one dispute which was rectified satisfactory to both seller and myself. Unfortunately ebay can be such a crapshoot. Of my maybe 15 experience only 1 has been negative. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Any chance your wife might just want to keep the ring? It does have a couple a endearling qualiteis ))))))))))))))))

"

 

[2Artists]

Sadly, no. Especially now with the negative experiences that are tied to it- not a great symbol for a wedding ring! Plus, she was genuinely interested in a more vintage/antique stone and this one didn''t even turn out to be that. She''s not sure she wants a wedding ring at all, at this point.

 

[HEPennypacker]

I''d sue, quite honestly.

 

[Ninama]

I'm so sorry for your ordeal, 2Artists. Intensely frustrating!

I remember that ring on eBay... I was intrigued. I actually still like it - for what it is (as opposed to what it was represented to be). If only I could, I would buy it from you at your cost.

I had a horrible eBay experience once, though not as costly as yours. A seller sent me, um... *used* sheets. Ew! Okay, maybe not used, but definitely laundered and refolded, poorly. Brand new Italian bed linens don't reek of Bounce fabric softener! Double ew! It was never resolved...

 

[2Artists]

Hi Ninama, thanks a million! Yeah, I remember your post about this! I couldn''t believe it when we saw it, we thought it was the craziest coincidence.

Yuck on the eBay thing- we once got a moldy jacket. Lovely. It was supposed to be vintage leather, but I wasn''t expecting it to be that vintage.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Did paypal give you a reason why they were denying your appeal? So much for buyer protection, huh? Have you reported this to ebay itself? Sorry if you mentioned that in an earlier post, if you did, I didn''t go back to your prior posts. Anyway, I would think that ebay would want to be apprised of this situation and to actually take some action. All over this board, more often than not, people say do not buy valuable jewelry from ebay because you never know what you are getting. I''ve seen that time and time again, and it is because of situations like yours. Imagine how many more people would feel comfortable buying expensive items from ebay if people knew they could rely on the accuracy of the listings, and if they couldn''t, that they would at least have some recourse through ebay. Imagine how much more money ebay could make through listing fees and final sale fees if they actually took charge in a situation like yours. If I were you, I would be sending a letter to ebay management, explaining your situation and attaching some of the other posts on this board or other boards, where people just commonly say, over and over, do not buy jewelry from ebay.

It is also unfortunate for people that are genuinely trying to run honest businesses on ebay. Ebay should care about them too. Well, not really care, but if they can''t sell enough on ebay because of ebay''s bad rep, then they will be forced to sell elsewhere.

Uggh. I am so sorry you''ve had to deal with such a nasty seller on top of being misled and ripped off.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Sorry to hear of this outcome. I followed your original posts and I too really hoped you would get a good resolution. I''m sorry it didn''t happen.

I wish you luck with reselling the ring (which I like a lot btw) and I hope you don''t lose too much $ on it as well as all the hassles you''ve had. I too would write to ebay management. It sounds as though you have plenty of evidence and they just might do something to improve your situation.

Good luck

Jen

 

[movie zombie]

i have always heard that ebay will back the seller over the buyer but i''m disappointed in paypal given your supportinig evidence submitted to them.

did you use a credit card registered at paypal for this transaction? if so, you have recourse with your credit card company within 60 days of the transaction. this is the only way i will do business on ebay: through paypal with a credit card registered through them for payment only so i''ll have the ability to seek redress through my credit card company. of course, i haven''t purchased anything for more than $100 from ebay! i have had some small purchases that i haven''t been satisfied with the quality of the item and been able to return them to the seller w/o a problem.

movie zombie

ps i''ve recently become enamoured of rose cuts.......

 

[2Artists]

We never got a reason that the appeal was denied. We reported the situation to Ebay at the very start but they sent us to Paypal. I have read that they are owned by the same company. We also dealt with the bank and every other avenue that we deemed appropriate. No luck. I feel bad for all the honest sellers on ebay because stuff like this hurts everyone. The hard thing about this ring was that it wasn''t even a rose cut according to our appraiser (but a poorly cut regular turned upside down (to look of greater antiquity perhaps)-Simply put it was not what had been described. I asked so many questions and the seller told us the ring was almost flawless and had no inclusions visible without a loupe-did I spell that right? Seller said that she was also an artist and would notice stuff like that. My Mom is I believe legally blind or nearly so without glasses and saw the inclusions very clearly and easily. It was so obviously included to the naked eye when we got it. Plus the very short appraisal that they sent with it did not even match their own info they had given us in additional questions or the listing. And things turned out to be much much worse when we got our own independent appraisal.
It is hard to have them slamming our name-they just put up a ME profile on ebay talking more about ebay trolls who they have run into as a "good seller"and how they can''t make everyone happy. I can''t believe that they put in a recent listing that there is a ebay troll out to smear them who wanted their item free.

 

[2Artists]

I really do want to say thank you! By the way I LOVE Pricescope-and I have been learning so much from it-You are so helpful. I love reading the posts quietly since I have so much to learn-the only thing that I feel qualified to comment on is aesthetic stuff since we are artists. I want to thank you for the all the help-the advice given to me to get an independent appraisal ASAP was priceless. And we found him through Pricescope. I wanted to write about this whole situation not to be negative (I like to be positive)-but to get some ideas and so people can learn from my experience with this whole thing. Cause I hope others can avoid this sort of thing. We''re trying to be positive and learn everything that we can from this. I have so much to be grateful for and this is not the end of the world. I still don''t know where to sell it but I still think that everything will turn out OK in the end with a HUGE lesson learned

 

[surfgirl]

Didn't you get a fair market appraisal? If so, why not just try to take the stone into a vintage dealer and just trade in that ring for a new one. It's not worth maybe what you paid for it, but it's worth something, right? Of course you're going to have to pay out of pocket for a better ring but at least you'll probably get something for it if you use it as trade...A saavy dealer might even have it possible re cut to make the stones better and then re sell it. I'd start contacting people like Ari from Single Stone to see if they'd be willing to take it in as a trade in for a new purchase.

ETA: You could also fight fire with fire and list it right back on ebay, along with your saga/story. If you're up front that you were sold this for X grading and value but it's really Y grading and value, you might find someone willing to purchase it for a fair value price. And on Ebay, when people have a great story to go with their item, it sometimes causes quite a lot of hits resulting in crazy prices...

ETA2: Not all Ebayers sell crap. I've sold several pieces of jewelry over the past couple of years there and they were all very high quality. I think the scammers are far less than the reputable folks. One just has to use good common sense when buying.

 

[oldminer]

What is the ebay user name of the vendor. I think I''d like to read some of the other listings they have. Just for entertainment, of course!
You can privately email me at [email protected] if you prefer not to publicly say who the seller was. Thanks.

 

[2Artists]

Thank you for your thoughts and ideas! Trading is an intriguing idea. I''m a bit nervous to list on ebay but would not rule it out. I would be completely upfront about it for sure if I ever did list it.
I also agree with you that there are some fabulous ebayers who sell some lovely items and common sense is surely a must on ebay!

 

[surfgirl]

In that case, I''d try trading it in for a vintage ring/stone, and if that doesn''t pan out, then try to sell it either on Ebay or Craig''s List or something like that. Good luck.

 

[2Artists]

Thanks I''ll need it!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Gosh what a nightmare! I had a similiar situation with a lower cost ebay diamond that was totally misprepresented. I had to jump thru hoops but they sided with me and my money was returned. I am wondering if you bought this from a Seller that was not in USA or North America. My apologies if I missed this piece of information. From what you have related to us, I suspect paypal does not believe they will recover their money from the seller so they won''t decide in your favor. Too bad.

 

[kellyfish]

2 artists,

Would you mind sharing how much the ring appraised for? eidted to say: nevermind, I asked the same nosey question in the last thread!!!

 

[icekid]

I was following your old thread as well, and hoping that ebay would come through for you! (And yes, paypal and ebay are the same company). But, unfortunately paypal does not offer the sort of protection that they purport to have. When I buy on ebay w/ paypal, I always pay w/ my credit card because I know they will back me where paypal will not.

It sounds like what the seller is doing to you right now on ebay basically amounts to slander. Terrible! I think if I were you, I would be really tempted to do what surfgirl recommended and put it back up on ebay with your whole saga. I bet you would get a ton of hits. But otherwise, I truly hope you are able to find some sort of solution so your wife can have a ring that she loves.. and forget about this whole ordeal.

I wonder how often these type of ebayers get taken to small claims court? Not often enough to stop them, apparently.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I am so sorry that this did not work out for you and your wife, what a shame. I do think that it is a pretty ring, but I can totally understand the negative feelings that you and your wife must have toward it now. I would try really hard to not let what this shameful seller has to say about you...what they are writing makes them sound like they are in junior high spreading trash. If I were a buyer interested in one of their auctions but then I saw what they wrote and looked at the feedback exchange between the two of you, I would run far, far away!

 

[Deelight]

2Artists I read your previous post and this one really sorry to hear how it panned out

I really like surfgirl''s advice especially the e-bay idea and it could provide a happy ending to this disaster.
Wish you the best of luck in getting a happy ending to this saga