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Rose Cut woes (Help me Please!!! update)

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2Artists

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
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For those of you who have been following along, I just asked for a refund from the seller of the vintage Rose Cut Pear Ring that I bought recently. I thought about whether to try and get it fracture filled, etc. but realized that I just needed to return it as it was grossly misrepresented and I didn''t want to have to deal with trying to get it enhanced or all that. I am following the advice of those on this forum (and the jewelers I spoke with) to try and return it and get the money back.

My poor wife is completely stressed about this- not because we''re trying to return the ring, but because the seller doesn''t want to consider a refund. She in fact wrote me demanding positive feedback on Ebay! She thinks I just had a change of heart, but since I opened the ring and first looked at it, I had concerns that it was not what she had described and I immediately wrote to her to explain that. All along, I''ve communicated my concerns that there were inclusions and the chip on the girdle and I had asked repeatedly before buying about those details and was assured that the ring was "almost flawless!"

Luckily, I have a very good lawyer in the family (pray I won''t need him) but I am prepared to launch a full court press on this. The seller still has not come up with a reasonable explanation for the disparity between their descritpion and the actual ring- even the appraisal they sent with it didn''t match the description they gave! (That was another ''clue'' I got from the moment it arrived). Anyway, Circe asked what I paid for it - I don''t mind sharing, it was $6,000.

Wish me luck, looks like it might be a battle to get this one returned.
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i have no idea how to assist but i''m curious as to how one has a ''rose cut'' pear...i thought that rose cut was always a roundish shape? i just googled it and everything i found re: education was a round stone. is there really such a thing as rose cut PEAR?
 
Okay, I hate to be rude, but while it is a unique ring that looks large, it also appears to be way overpriced. (I have not been following your story)...

I cannot believe you have not been able to get a full refund. If the ring was misrepresented, you should be able to return. Have you gone through Ebay complaints?

UPDATE: I looked up your previous posts...What color was it stated? "Slight Fancy Yellow", "H", "J"?????
 
I''m only a spectator on this site, but I think you need to get to an appraiser FAST. You need an expert opinion to back you up an to prove the discrepancy. Without that, the discrepancy is **speculation** on our parts--albeit pretty obvious speculation.....
 
Well, I''d agree not to give bad feedback if I could get my money back. I would NOT give good feedback, except to say that she gave a refund. Those stones are SO far from H color (or was it J?), that it''s not even funny. I wonder what the ring is really worth. I think it is much less than $6000. I am so glad you are attempting to return it.

What did the listing say about returns?
 
Mara- I agree. I always thought rose cut was roundish...
 
Date: 10/16/2007 11:38:47 PM
Author: Mara
i have no idea how to assist but i'm curious as to how one has a 'rose cut' pear...i thought that rose cut was always a roundish shape? i just googled it and everything i found re: education was a round stone. is there really such a thing as rose cut PEAR?
Click to expand...
There are a bunch of "rose cut pears" in this thread ... but sometimes I think people use "rose cut" to mean ... um ... "sparsely faceted"
 
Said it before and will say it again, take it to an independent appraiser for back up. They can document how off it is, color wise, if it''s indeed a rose cut and clarity. Money well spent in fighting the seller, to document that it was misrepresented. I don''t buy from ebay, stories like these are a dime a dozen... I wish you good luck and hope you get your money back.
 
Thank you all so much for your help and thoughts. It really helps. It was listed in the listing as VS1-VS2 in the listing as "fancy color"?? and in response to my question before buying-I had a ton of ??? before I bought which I luckily have all on record. Anyways they said it was H and descibed the stone as almost flawless. It is nearly (according to them) 5 carats total weight. The return policy was unspecified on my auction, but I noticed that they do have one now on their current listings. Their position right now is that I am being picky, finding minute things to cause me to change my mind. As far as they are concerned, they have their money and the deal is done! I just started a dispute with Ebay/Paypal and we''ll go from there- I''ll keep you all posted.
 
GET IT APPRAISED! I know you dont want to invest any money into it but DO IT for peace of mind so you have proof. Second, contact EBay and ask what they can do to help mediate for you. I think they have a mediation unit? Third, how did you pay for this? If by credit card or Pay Pal, call them and explain the situation to them and see if they can put a halt payment on it and do an investigation. That should get the seller motivated to return your payment. Good luck and DONT buy something that expensive on Ebay again, or I''ll have to come to your house and spank you both..and not in a good way!
 
It is an "unusual" ring, to say the least. I suppose one shooses such an item because it is very different and that''s certainly okay with me. I think people making comments about what the ring is ''worth" or what its "value" is should keep these unqualified opinions to themselves. Even if they have a valid, qualified opinion, it is just not a right thing to provide what may eventually turn our to be faulty advice.

I know a lot about diamonds, but only a fraction of the market information on rose cuts. I have been party to several actual sales of large rose cuts which I bought and dealer friends eventually sold for me in partnership to other deals, mostly overseas. Many of these were in the thousands of dollars per carat wholesale. The value in the market for rose cuts does not follow the Rap sheet or some other matrix of prices we have available to us. There is a market, but much more of the secret veriety of esoteric colored gemstones.

I don''t know how it was represented on ebay, but the price may well be within the norms of market value for what it appears to be from the photograph. Once a consumer decides they don''t want an item the must depend on the terms of sale provided in advance of the purchase. I sure hope you read the fine print before making the decision to make a purchase.

This purchase may serve as a good warning to others about to throw caution to the wind in an auction situation, especially one where the item cannot be examined before bidding. You end up paying before you ever see the item. This alone is a huge red flag when it comes to precious and expensive jewelry.
 
The first step of any dispute where you are claiming that you received something substantially different from what you purchased and the seller is protesting is to document what you have actually received. This means get it appraised by a credible appraiser. Immediately would be a good schedule. The longer you wait the more you open up the suggestion that something has changed since you received it. Until you do this, it’s all just speculation. IF you were to have your lawyer friend take it to court or if you are going to fight through the credit card or any other formal venue, this document and the ones provided by the seller will be the basis of your case.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
If I were you and a seller was refusing to issue a refund on misrepresented merchandise... I would high tail it over to an appraiser. With an independent appraisal in your hand proving the ring was misrepresented, you will have the ammunition needed to fight the seller.

I would work with Dave or Neil to determine exactly what you did purchase. One you have that information, the seller will have some explaining to do.

I am really sorry that you are going through this. Keep us posted.
 
I agree that you should get it appraised, this will be your proof to ebay/paypal that the item was not as described. Also, did you pay with a credit card? If so, you should be able to fall back on that should paypal not side in your favor. I wish you the very best of luck in this, but you really should get it appraised.
 
Thank you all for your advice and comments- I am going in for an appraisal this afternnoon- I found a local guy from the PS site resources. I will definitely not be buying something like this from Ebay again- even though I asked tons of questions of the seller before buying, they misinformed me about the details, so here I am in this sticky situation. Wish me luck- thanks for the support and help!
 
LUCK!
 
GOOD LUCK! Though I am sure you won''t need luck, something tells me honesty is going to win this one out. Did you go to the appraiser? whats the word?
 
OK, first let me just say that Patrick Davis ROCKS! (pun intended)
He was listed on the resources section of this site and I would absolutely recommend him to anyone in the West LA area. He was so helpful and professional.
So it turns out just about everything about this ring was wrong- the center stone was advertised as 25 points bigger than it actually is, and the side stones were also smaller than stated. The clarity grade is one to 2 categories lower (depending on whether you go by the appraisal the seller sent me or her own description of the ring). Patrick graded it at I1. The color, as many people who saw my previous post here surmised, was really off- it''s an O/P (sold to me as H!) One more funny thing- turns out it''s not even a rose cut stone- just a pear cut but mounted in upside down! There was a very large inclusion on the table that breaches he surface of the stone- I was shocked to see that because it''s on the underside with the way it''s mounted so it wasn''t in a spot that was visible- but I''m guessing that is one of the reasons it was mounted upside down.....
I have informed the seller but they have become strangely silent... I will be reporting them to every agency I can in hopes of getting refunded and also of putting a stop to their misguided selling practices. Mr Davis (the appraiser) said he would be happy to serve as an expert witness for me should it come to that and I do have a great lawyer in the family, but I am really hoping to get this settled without all that fuss.
Needless to say, I won''t be buying any more wedding rings on Ebay... or, um, selling the family cow for magic beans :)

Thanks again for all the well wishes and expertise- I love this forum!
 
well I couldnt sleep (recently started working 2-11...stay up real late now) and I wanted to say...#@$%.

You better get your money back on this one. That is pretty ridiculous.

(oh, and I say call it 4 clarity grades lower, rather than two categories. Makes it sound worse. And don't worry, I think everyone here will help find you a great ring once you get that 6k back:)
 
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I have been reading your topic''s from day one
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I am really bummed for you I hope you get your money back and it all resolves itself. The perfect ring is out there :)

GL :)
 
2artists,

Did the appraiser put an estimated value on the ring? I was wondering [prior to the appraisal] whether you would keep it if you found out that you had not overpaid, but there still was a deception within the transaction.

I am so happy you appraised the item. You have excellent ammunition to move forward.

Warts and all, I still think it looks pretty on your wife's finger. Ya'know--mabey I'm just nutty (I was cut from the artsy kind of cloth, too), but if the ring would have been honestly represented I think I would have bought it and happily worn it for what it was. It's all about informed consent, I guess. It is a little weird about the pear being mounted upside down--I guess to look like a rose cut.

Kelly
 
By chance do you have a link to the auction? I would love to read the description.

Sorry for the headaches you are going through! Hope it gets worked out fast!
 
I really wish you luck. Is the seller local or in another country.

Personally, I would be getting the lawyer ready for action.

I hope the seller doesnt do a disapperaing act......get all the legal advice you can now in how to tackle this.

Im sorry you have to go thru this as you sound like such a nice person, and you were really trying to please your partner. Hopefully the next one will be super!!!!
 
Hey all,
well, another nightmarish day in this surreal saga. Short story is the buyer is still refusing to offer a refund and sending angry email in all caps attempting to character assassinate me. They said since I bought it that was a contract and it''s a done deal. They basically said- you purchased a diamond, and I sent a diamond, it''s not like you bought a DVD player and got a VCR. Yup, I got a diamond alright. And a rull purty one at that thur. They keep saying I have ''buyer''s remorse'' despite the fact that I told them on day one that I was concerned it wasn''t what they described, and that I needed to get an appraisal. Now they are trying to put a cut-off time after the fact and saying ''if you had asked for a refund within a week, etc.'' I took the time to find a good independent appraiser (go Patrick!), a step the seller probably would have benefitted from as well.
I have calmly informed them that it is against Ebay policies to misrepresent items in their listing, and also that if they are unable to resolve this in a professional manner (fingies crossed for a response with no all caps in it) than I will have no recourse but to report them to the authorities and turn the whole mattter over to my lawyer.
Can I just say that I hate dealing with this stuff? You''d think if they are trying to start a jewelry business they might want to try not screaming at their dissatisfied customers for starters.

They actually tried to insult me by saying that I had a vast knowledge of gemstones. ???

Kellyfish, it didn''t appraise for anything close to what they stated. Sorry if I haven''t answered some of your questions, it''s been a pretty exhausting day already, and my poor little kitten of a wife is just beside herself in tears, because of someone dealing with us like this.
 
Gosh that's rough, hoping it resolves itself in the manner that is satisfactory to you and your wife. Have you filed a complaint with ebay at this point, if not better do so now. Also what was the method of payment?? If you used your credit card you should be protected?? I am sorry to hear the heartache of your wife. This story just makes my stomach turn, so wrong, but yet so familiar. Hoping you get your money back!!! Glad you found Patrick, sounds like having him on your side will be key.
 
Thanks for the well wishes, already started a dispute with Paypal (That''s where Ebay sends you if you''re the buyer).
I hate being another of those ''so familiar'' stories!
 
Update:
I have turned everything over to my lawyer (that's a relief!)- no more responses from the seller yet. I spent today at the bank getting a fraud dispute form sent in and have a dispute open with Paypal. We've also dealt with Ebay on this. Hoping that this works out!
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I am so sorry that this has happened to you and your wife. What a nightmare
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I hope you are able to resolve this soon...and I further hope that this miserable seller is banned from eBay. I guess that''s wishful thinking!! I just took another look at the pear and, sure enough, the culet is pointing right out at us
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Not sure how you paid for the ring but if you used Paypal then you can file a claim through them...the seller is required to respond. If you paid via CC you can return the ring [getting all necessary proof of mailing etc] and then do a charge back.

I hope you have made all your correspondence through Ebays system.[the contact seller link on the auction page] Then you have proof of what is said.
Oh, it would not hurt to go to Ebays live chat and ask the customer service person there what to do...they may have a suggestion they may not but you can get a copy of that chat sent to [or copy it yourself] also to show if you need to if you have to take it further.

Good luck.

ETA: Did the appraisal come close to what you paid for it??
 
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