Rookie Question- timing on insurance

[BigDiamonds]

So I''m planning to purchase a diamond through WF, and I want to get insurance with Chubb through Touchstone. I took a quick look at the application, and it looks like it requires documentation, presumably an appraisal. I''m a little confused about the timing on this whole thing. I would like to have the diamond already insured when I receive it- is that not possible?

Or can I have WF send me the appraisal info so that I can send that to Chubb before I get the stone?
What is the safest way to do this? And what do I do after I have the stone set? Do I re-appraise the whole thing or get an appraisal on the setting without the stone?

 

[MWG]

Hi,

You need to contact John Pollard or Lesley Harris at WhiteFlash. I feel they could best answer your questions.

Good Luck
MWG

 

[denverappraiser]

Chubb will bind a policy based on the receipt, which presumably will be issued as soon as you pay. I suspect that WF will be happy to email you a copy of the receipt in advance of receiving your shipment and you can use that to bind a policy with Touchstone. The piece will then be under WF’s insurance while it’s in their possession, FedEx’s policy while in transit and the Chubb policy as soon as you take possession although do make sure that the Chubb underwriters have accepted the policy before you have the jeweler ship to you to be certain of this.

If you want to get it appraised after you receive it, you can submit an update directly to Chubb with the new information.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 4/21/2007 9:14:11 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Chubb will bind a policy based on the receipt, which presumably will be issued as soon as you pay. I suspect that WF will be happy to email you a copy of the receipt in advance of receiving your shipment and you can use that to bind a policy with Touchstone. The piece will then be under WF’s insurance while it’s in their possession, FedEx’s policy while in transit and the Chubb policy as soon as you take possession although do make sure that the Chubb underwriters have accepted the policy before you have the jeweler ship to you to be certain of this.

If you want to get it appraised after you receive it, you can submit an update directly to Chubb with the new information.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

That higher altitude allows Neil to think really fast.

We'll gladly do the above. Additionally, one of your purchase benefits is a letter of verification listing details on the items you've purchased from Whiteflash with a valuation. This document is issued by a third-party Houston appraiser and is intended to be helpful to you, for insurance purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for a full appraisal of the kind Neil and his peers provide.

 

[denverappraiser]

John,

Can the letter of verification be delivered to the client in advance of receipt of the ring, perhaps in pdf format by email? Can they get it in advance of your shipping the merchandise so that the policy is in place when the package arrives? Can the shipment be scheduled to cooincide with the underwriters acceptance of the policy (which they almost always do but it's nice to go through the formality).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[JohnQuixote]

Actually, Touchstone will bind a Chubb policy without documentation (below $50,000), providing the client provides the document inside a reasonable time frame (a week?). This is done to help clients feel secure when taking delivery of the ring. I'm not sure if they are able to do this with their Gemshield policies, but I can find out.

 

[BigDiamonds]

That is so helpful! Thank you guys for the advice!

And thank you too for the clarification on the documentation that WF provides- I apparently wasn''t clear on that at all!

Don''t know how I would get through this without PS.

 

[denverappraiser]

John,

That’s good to know. With most insurance it is necessary for the client to have what’s called an insurable interest. Usually this means that they need to own it but there are exceptions. This would generally exclude situations like when you ship it to an appraiser like me for inspection prior to the client paying you for it. In this case the insurable interest would be with WF all the way until the time of payment, at which time it would shift to the buyer. If there were to be a loss during shipment or during the appraisal, there may be an option for a claim against the carrier or the appraiser (or their insurer) but the claimant would be Whiteflash, not the buyer. In the same situation where the buyer paid in advance of shipment, the claimant would be the buyer, not Whiteflash. Prior to paying, or at least committing to paying, they have no insurable interest and the policy would not be valid. Perhaps a tiny detail but tiny details up front have a way of becoming important at the end.

This issue can also get further complicated by the fact that most diamond purchasers are not the final consumer. When the diamond is given as a gift, the insurable interest transfers to the recipient and the insurance company should be notified of this new ‘owner’. In cases where the bride and groom live in different states or even countries, this can be a very important issue.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[BigDiamonds]

Is there any advantage other than convenience to having the stone shipped straight to the appraiser, vs. having it shipped to me and me taking it in?

 

[denverappraiser]

You don’t have to pay a deposit in advance of seeing the stone if it’s shipped directly to the appraiser. For some people this is a big deal, especially when they are shopping with a dealer that they are unfamiliar with or don’t entirely trust. The appraisal session is a much more personal type of transaction and it’s easier to part with your money when you actually have a stone in hand to show for it. Also for some, the nearest qualified appraiser is rather far and the inconvenience of going there can be substantial. If you are going to need to ship it to the appraiser anyway, it may make sense to have the dealer do this directly to save both time and shipping/insurance fees.

Personally, I prefer to have the dealer ship to my local customers and have them bring it in to see me. This has several advantages. First, it gives you the opportunity to inspect it yourself first and, if you don’t care for it, you can return it without the appraisers fees. Second, it means that the appraiser doesn’t know who the seller is unless you tell them, which helps with even the appearance of a conflict of interest between the seller and the appraiser. Lastly, this is not a free service. I charge to receive 3rd party shipments for exactly the liability reasons discussed in my previous post. If you carry it in and take it with you when you leave, my fees are less.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[BigDiamonds]

Great info on both options. Thanks!

I think I will just have it shipped to me. I trust the vendor, so that''s not a problem, but I would like the "free preview" opportunity first.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/21/2007 12:21:56 PM
Author: BigDiamonds
Is there any advantage other than convenience to having the stone shipped straight to the appraiser, vs. having it shipped to me and me taking it in?

I think there is a big advantage. Apprasiers who are qualified and are known to be reliable are able to receive multiple stones from the seller, or perhaps even more than one seller without having the requirement to have the funds to pay for each stone.

So say you have picked stones from two different sellers, each would ship to an appraiser the seller trusts to be financially responsible.

The appraiser might offer looking at the two stones, and picking the best one, or if you''re local you could come in and see the differences with your own eyes.

This works well when you are buying something sght unseen. The consumer also has the benefit of having expert, experienced trained eyes, and verification by testing, in advance of having to choose having just one stone shipped and having only one choice.

Not many people have the extra funds to have more than one stone sent, so a recognized appraiser who the sellers trusts, eliminates having to lay out the $$$ just to see the stones. In this case possibly you would only have a fee to pay for the stone you picked. The only extra expense is for the shipping return for the stone(s) you didn''t select to be tested, but this of course removes any limitation of having only one stone to pick from. Additionally if you''re local to the appraiser you could see all the stones sent so you can compare them which is a big help for deciding what personal preferences you might have too.

Consumers who aren''t experienced at handling loose stones, could also accidently drop one, and chip it. If the stone is shipped to the consumer, then you take the risk of anything happening to the stone. Loose stones need special gentle care in the way they are handled.

Most consumers receiving stones don''t have the availability of having a microscope or more accurate ways of examining the stone other than a loupe. A loupe is good for an experienced person to use, but if you don''t have experience with using a loupe to look at a loose stone or the improper lighting then you may not see things that are relevant and important.

Hope this helps
Rockdoc

 

[BigDiamonds]

Rockdoc- thanks for the extra info. I didn''t realize that I had the option to have multiple stones shipped to an appraiser before I chose. That may make a difference...

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 4/21/2007 12:00:34 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Actually, Touchstone will bind a Chubb policy without documentation (below $50,000), providing the client provides the document inside a reasonable time frame (a week?). This is done to help clients feel secure when taking delivery of the ring. I'm not sure if they are able to do this with their Gemshield policies, but I can find out.

I received an answer from Touchstone the following day but set it aside. It just nipped me on the leg...sorry for the delay.

The customer may bind a Gemshield policy the day he takes delivery of the ring from FedEx; using either the included invoice or the letter of verification we provided. This is the same way people may bind policies on jewelry they buy at a B&M; they contact the insurer once they get home with the bill of sale. If the consumer has a full appraisal done later the policy can be updated.

 

[BigDiamonds]

Thanks for the info John! You guys have a been help through all this!