Remigration.

[Rockdiamond]

The issue isn’t immigration. The issue is what to do with people who came here by walking or swimming into the country, illegally.

I’m really glad for the opportunity to discuss. It’s so obvious that there’s different “realities”
I can totally understand why someone would ask this, based on the massive amount of misinformation out there.
Many of the people here who lack proper documentation came by plane.
It’s easy to buy into the concept that there are, or were floods of people crossing the border.
I don’t know the actual facts or numbers- and I am extremely skeptical of a lot of what’s published.
But take a moment and think about people who did walk or swim here.
Imagine what it takes to leave your home. Clearly many people in Central America are living in destitute conditions.
Even still- to take your kids and risk everything for a better life.
That sounds to me like someone with determination- grit.
It’s easy to paint such people as greedy to steal our services- and surely there are immigrants AND US citizens taking advantage. But I don’t believe it’s the majority.
Taken a step further- the likelihood is that people like this are likely more willing to take jobs US citizens won’t. Or start a business. Till now, the next generation - their kids- are as American as any of us. Efforts are being made to even end that.
I’ve lived my life in NYC- filled with immigrants. Built by immigrants. Made great by immigrants. Try to hire sheet rock people in NYC but no immigrants or Hispanic people. Good luck. Ain’t gonna happen.
If all the undocumented people suddenly disappeared, NYC collapses in a matter of days.
So far we haven’t seen US Military on the streets of NYC.
I’m dreading that day.

 

[Lookinagain]

The issue isn’t immigration. The issue is what to do with people who came here by walking or swimming into the country, illegally.

Well, it seems to me, that most of them would like to be able to work. Legally. Many of the folks being "remigrated" are being taken away from jobs that they have been doing for years, illegally. It's been said over and over again that many are doing jobs that Americans don't want, but we won't let them do them legally and out in the open. I just don't understand that.

 

[Matata]

Many of the folks being "remigrated" are being taken away from jobs that they have been doing for years, illegally.

And yet we hear nothing about penalties for those who hire them. And yet we hear that it's ok for them to work illegally picking fruits and vegetables until it's not depending on the day-to-day vagaries of policy decisions.

The myth that illegals are taking jobs away from Americans needs to die. It's not typical for Americans to encourage their kids to aspire to be low paid farm workers toiling in inclement weather or in construction or in restaurants or cutting the lawns of houses they may never be able to afford themselves. American parents typically want their kids to have it better than they did and that's what both documented and undocumented parents also want for their kids.

 

[LightBright]

Well, it seems to me, that most of them would like to be able to work. Legally. Many of the folks being "remigrated" are being taken away from jobs that they have been doing for years, illegally. It's been said over and over again that many are doing jobs that Americans don't want, but we won't let them do them legally and out in the open. I just don't understand that.

I agree with this.

I’ve gone around in circles on what I think could be fair.

Secure the border so we have a chance to catch up with processing people.

Scrutinize and carefully vet any NEW refugee settlements.

Allow undocumented people who have been living here for more than four years and who have a family or job sponsor, to apply for citizenship. Give priority to those who have been here longer and those that have both family and job.

Send criminals home on a plane directly to their own government, not unconvicted to prisons.

Send anyone who doesn’t have a family or a job sponsorship home on a plane with $10,000 per person. Allow them to apply for citizenship in same way as above.

I don’t agree with what’s going on. Like I said, I would put a path to citizenship in place immediately and stop holding people.

But I disagree with Americans being lassez faire about the prior process that allowed millions to enter USA illegally, which was absolutely funded/encouraged and meant many millions came here unplanned.

It’s frustrating that some Americans support this, saying “immigration is good” while not acknowledging the risks and harms of illegal entry. Well that kind of immigration was a disaster, IMO.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Well that kind of immigration was a disaster, IMO.

I'm asking with the best of intentions and really want to know... in what way has immigration affected you personally?

 

[LightBright]

And yet we hear nothing about penalties for those who hire them. And yet we hear that it's ok for them to work illegally picking fruits and vegetables until it's not depending on the day-to-day vagaries of policy decisions.

The myth that illegals are taking jobs away from Americans needs to die. It's not typical for Americans to encourage their kids to aspire to be low paid farm workers toiling in inclement weather or in construction or in restaurants or cutting the lawns of houses they may never be able to afford themselves. American parents typically want their kids to have it better than they did and that's what both documented and undocumented parents also want for their kids.

I don’t really want to keep answering but you make some very good points.

My point about illegal workers is that they can be exploited. Employers are taking advantage of their status. I think the government is looking the other way.

We see superhuman work being done with no occupational health or safety standards. Not to mention substandard wages etc.

I think Americans don’t do it because of 1) a lack of training and pipelining and 2) undocumented workers can be treated terribly because they don’t have protections, so some employers use them not Americans.

If we legalized undocumented workers, employers would be reportable and workers wouldn’t be trapped. Workers who have a choice would elevate the working standards.

 

[LightBright]

I'm asking with the best of intentions and really want to know... in what way has immigration affected you personally?

I really want to know why you like the prior process. I thought it was a disaster.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I want to know why this isn't a bigger source of anger for people who care about our immigration processes.

In 2024 the most comprehensive border bill in American history was drafted to be voted into law. The current administration forced their party (who also supported it) to vote NO, so the lack of reform could be used for a campaign ploy.
Much of the overall issues would've have been addressed. Competently.

There was absolutely no need for concentration camps, unnecessary death or occupations and terror. No need for remigration.
We wouldn't be losing (at current, expected to trend more) 30 billion in tourism.

America is the only country facing a decline in tourism

The Olympics wouldn't be impacted negatively, as it will be.
We would still have FEMA and weather funding.
Our crops wouldn't be rotting in the fields, our meat/dairy unprocessed and our homes unbuilt.

We traded American citizens livelihoods, lives, safety and security for ICE funding.

I'd be incredibly angry to be lied to in such a way.

 

[Matata]

I'd be incredibly angry to be lied to in such a way.

Anger and frustration don't solve the problem and can lead to physical and emotional distress. I've learned to distance myself emotionally from what has become a dystopian society. This is what the voters chose and only they can change it if they want change. If not, we've no options but to hunker down and try to survive as best we can. Protesting, working locally to educate otherwise complacent people to understand the issues and to vote are important.

 

[RMOO]

And yet we hear nothing about penalties for those who hire them. And yet we hear that it's ok for them to work illegally picking fruits and vegetables until it's not depending on the day-to-day vagaries of policy decisions.

The myth that illegals are taking jobs away from Americans needs to die. It's not typical for Americans to encourage their kids to aspire to be low paid farm workers toiling in inclement weather or in construction or in restaurants or cutting the lawns of houses they may never be able to afford themselves. American parents typically want their kids to have it better than they did and that's what both documented and undocumented parents also want for their kids.

Right? Part of my past job was onboarding employees, which included completing Fed form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification. Both the employer and employee are required to fill it out, testifying, with supporting documentation, that the employee is legal to work here. So, where is the penalty for the employer who falsifies this doc? And if they didn't submit this form, you can bet these employees are not on the books, requiring taxes to be paid for Soc. Sec, Medicare/Medicaid and Unemployment. And how are they rewarded?...by a big fat tax cut.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I really want to know why you like the prior process. I thought it was a disaster.

IT's not a question of if I liked it. I was not personally affected. There's so much biased info on all sides. If one listened to either Fox, or MSNBC all day, they'd definitely get a skewed view of things.

That's why I asked if you had personal experiences that led you to believe we have too many undocumented people. How was it a disaster for you?

If the masked men came to 47th street and carted away every person with an accent, the diamond biz is done.
We work closely with so many immigrants. I have never asked for "their papers"- other than legit business procedures.
My grandparents were all immigrants.
A guy pushing a heavy peanut cart down the street to earn a buck.
I have a totally different view of "foreigners" than many others, I guess.
When I meet someone I'm not negatively impacted by where they are from. A lot of super rude native born New Yawkas, that's for sure.

 

[Lookinagain]

Both the employer and employee are required to fill it out, testifying, with supporting documentation, that the employee is legal to work here. So, where is the penalty for the employer who falsifies this doc?

I assume the employees have false/forged documents and the employer relies on those. Not sure how much due diligence is required. Paying under the table is of course totally different.

 

[Matata]

I assume the employees have false/forged documents and the employer relies on those.

Depends on the type of businesses doing the hiring. There is a fair amount of wink wink nod that goes on when people don't have documentation and there are employers who will take the risk and hire them because they are cheap, don't complain, and are grateful for the work.

 

[Lookinagain]

Depends on the type of businesses doing the hiring. There is a fair amount of wink wink nod that goes on when people don't have documentation and there are employers who will take the risk and hire them because they are cheap, don't complain, and are grateful for the work.

Oh, I'm sure that's true and I'm not defending anything. But I do wonder how much due diligence is done or even required. Do they have to figure out if the documents presented are legitimate if there is nothing obvious on their face? I don't know the answer so am wondering if @RMOO can say what is the norm.

 

[Matata]

what is the norm

Information for Employers and Employees | USCIS

Employers must verify that an individual whom they plan to employ or continue to employ in the United States is authorized to accept employment in the United States. For more information about the

www.uscis.gov

There's also E-Verify

Home

E-Verify is a web-based system that allows enrolled employers to confirm the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify employers verify the identity and employment eligibility of newly hired employees by electronically ...

www.e-verify.gov

 

[Lookinagain]

Information for Employers and Employees | USCIS

Employers must verify that an individual whom they plan to employ or continue to employ in the United States is authorized to accept employment in the United States. For more information about the

www.uscis.gov

There's also E-Verify

Home

E-Verify is a web-based system that allows enrolled employers to confirm the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify employers verify the identity and employment eligibility of newly hired employees by electronically ...

www.e-verify.gov

That's good information. I haven't applied for any jobs for centuries so I had no idea what was being done today. I'm guessing "certain" industries don't verify the documents. If the feds would require that they do, then it would give them a solid basis to go after the employers, which as you've said, doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[RMOO]

And here is the actual form. You can see that both the prospective employee and the employer representative attest, under the penalty of perjury, to the legitimacy of the documents on page 1.

Fed Form I-9

I suppose that a person could falsify documents that might get by a company rep if they were really good. But, let's remember, that employee would be doing so, so that they can work and pay taxes. If this step is bypassed, both the employer and "employee" are doing so to get cheap labor and avoid paying employment taxes.