shape
carat
color
clarity

Realistic Sales Price

GabeC90

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Hello, first post here. I have a question about a diamond I am trying to sell. We have had it appraised and also took it to the GIA institute in NYC. When we had it appraised we were given a price which blew our mind but of course he said that was what the diamond would most likely retail for at a known retail store. After speaking with him, I spoke to a jeweler who gave us a more realistic sales price. I have searched online for similar stones and pricing is all over the place. I have an interested buyer but they want us to give them a price and I don't want to screw it up. So I am hoping to get some help here. It will be a private sale. I have been given prices between $24,000 to $36,000 so I have no clue where to start.

Here are the grading results:

Shape: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 9.86 - 9.88 x 6.05 mm
Carat Weight: 3.57 carat
Color Grade: J
Clarity: VS1
Cut Grade: Good
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you :)
 

HappyNewLife

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I'd probably pay to have it GIA certified. A GIA cut grade of "good" is, well, bad, so I think a buyer would want to know all the info (pavilion angle, crown angle, depth, table). An appraiser always gives a hugely inflated number, so I'd probably find a similar diamond on Jamesallen.com and then reduce the cost by 30% to arrive at a number. But you really do need to know more details. Is it a modern round brilliant? Can you share photos?
 

Bron357

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219F410A-5EB7-4606-B59A-EF5E2F3AA940.jpeg I’m not a diamond guru, they will be along later but can you also post up the proportion % from the GIA report (as per example pic)
While size, colour and clarity matter, it’s the interpretation of the cut that has a big impact on value.
Cheers
 

Bron357

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Oh, and if you don’t already have a GIA report that includes that information, definitely get one.
Most people paying $20,000 plus for a diamond expect a proper lab report.
You won’t be able realize fair market price without one.
 

GabeC90

Rough_Rock
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Mar 4, 2019
Messages
6
Thank you for the replies! Ok here are the pictures I have. I don't have any pictures of the diamond by itself and the picture I do have from the appraiser sucks in quality but I attached it. Is this the right report from GIA when you say GIA Certified?

Thanks!


IMG_0525.jpg IMG_0526.jpg IMG_0527.jpg IMG_0524.jpg
 

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Bron357

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Thank you for the replies! Ok here are the pictures I have. I don't have any pictures of the diamond by itself and the picture I do have from the appraiser sucks in quality but I attached it. Is this the right report from GIA when you say GIA Certified?

Thanks!


IMG_0525.jpg IMG_0526.jpg IMG_0527.jpg IMG_0524.jpg
Yes, that’s the one
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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And I’d ask Admin (use report concern button at bottom of post) to shift this Post over to “Rocky Talk” which is where the diamond gurus live.
 

kmoro

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Hello, first post here. I have a question about a diamond I am trying to sell. We have had it appraised and also took it to the GIA institute in NYC. When we had it appraised we were given a price which blew our mind but of course he said that was what the diamond would most likely retail for at a known retail store. After speaking with him, I spoke to a jeweler who gave us a more realistic sales price. I have searched online for similar stones and pricing is all over the place. I have an interested buyer but they want us to give them a price and I don't want to screw it up. So I am hoping to get some help here. It will be a private sale. I have been given prices between $24,000 to $36,000 so I have no clue where to start.

Here are the grading results:

Shape: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 9.86 - 9.88 x 6.05 mm
Carat Weight: 3.57 carat
Color Grade: J
Clarity: VS1
Cut Grade: Good
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you :)

I’m surprised the appraiser gave you a high value and said it was retail ... usually, they provide an inflated figure for insurance purposes ... I had one appraiser that said they use 1.6 x retail for the appraised value.

When I tried a PS diamond search, the lowest price I could find for a 3.5 carat J color VS1 was $34,025 ... the cut was a lot better (GIA XXX) but it has medium flourescence that lowers price - not the best comparison but not the worst. Anyway, this would lead me to think you can try asking maybe 70-80% of that (approx. $24,000 - $27,000)? Selling to an exchange would get you 40% - 50% ($13,000 - $17,000 but geez that sounds low, doesn’t it?) .... Could try asking $34,000, but that is close to retail and I think that any potential buyer would rather go to a vendor with sales policies.

That was a bit of thinking out loud. If it was me, I think I would start at $30,000 and go from there. How’s that? So easy for me to pull out a number when it’s not my money, lol. Seriously though, I think that would be reasonable, if not a bit low.

You could consider a recut, but if it takes the weight below 3.5, then it might not be worth it.

That would be my two cents.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I would likely ask for lower than 30k. Maybe 27k? It's not a well cut stone, but it's large so that helps.
 

Rockdiamond

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Since I spend a lot of time here, online diamond shopping for comparison purposes, that kind of skews my opinion.
Also as a dealer, I know that when consumers sell to dealers, they accept far far less than retail- or even wholesale- again the skews my view.
If the potential buyer does any online shipping they are likely to learn that a GIA Cut grade of “Good” is like the kiss of death. So many of the new stones being cut attain EX cut grade. If it was me, I’d feel bad knowing this deficit and not telling the buyer. That’s up to you.
One other possibility is a recut to improve the cut grade. Maybe reach out to cutters. Other consumer “prosumers” will likely chime in with cutters that offer such services. The weight of 3.57 means you’ll likely be able to keep it above 3 carats. A 3.25ct ( for example) GIA EX cut grade will fetch a higher price than a 3.57ct Good Cut grade of the same color/clarity.
Hope this helps!
 

partgypsy

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I would try to sell as-is, as long as you have a GIA report to go with it. I'd only consider re-cutting it if I couldn't sell it.

If I was keeping it for myself I would re-cut it.
 

HappyNewLife

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I'd probably reach out to Brian Gavin Diamonds to discuss a recut. The cut is really not good at all. But, it is big, so you have that going for you. My ideal cut I color/VS2 clarity 2.937ct diamond was roughly $35K, so I'd maybe ask $27-30k for yours and see if it sells. It's a lower color and badly cut, but people do like size.
 

denverappraiser

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Your appraiser may have done you a disservice but it sort of depends on what you asked for, what they asked you, and what you told them. 'Retail price', whatever that means, is irrelevant to your situation. It's like valuing your car by noting that Toyota currently charges $48000 for that model and they have a MSRP of $60k! Bully for them. It may even be true, but what does that have to do with you?

Assuming you asked the resale question to them in the appraisal session, call them up and point out that this isn't what they answered. If they refuse, consider finding another appraiser. The report you have is not useful.

Dealer bids are generally free and you can get a baseline simply by asking them for it using that GIA document as the description. They won't lock into a price without seeing the item, of course, but they should be happy give you a feel for where they will be on either a buy or a consignment deal. That's the bottom. How much more your time and risks are worth to direct retail it yourself is up to you.

I generally don't recommend getting into the recutting business. There's a lot more to it than people tend to think and, when you're done, you'll still have to sell it. It may be easier but you'll still have the same general problem that you have now. If you've got a buyer lined up already and are just haggling over the price, you're in a much better situation now.
 
Last edited:

Rockdiamond

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IN general, I agree Neil- recutting is a dicey proposition, and true- you'd still need to sell it.
I guess my comment is more aligned with the fact that the stone, as is, represents a problem for any seller- unless the buyer is not educated.
If the buyer is unrelated ( either friend or family), and the seller doesn't care about letting them know that, then by all means, get rid of it.
If the buyer and seller have a relationship, now that the seller understands this aspect....puts it in a different perspective.
I totally agree about the appraiser and their responsibility.
 

kmoro

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I'd probably reach out to Brian Gavin Diamonds to discuss a recut. The cut is really not good at all. But, it is big, so you have that going for you. My ideal cut I color/VS2 clarity 2.937ct diamond was roughly $35K, so I'd maybe ask $27-30k for yours and see if it sells. It's a lower color and badly cut, but people do like size.

Good Old Gold offers recut services as well.
 

SandyK

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
697
Since I spend a lot of time here, online diamond shopping for comparison purposes, that kind of skews my opinion.
Also as a dealer, I know that when consumers sell to dealers, they accept far far less than retail- or even wholesale- again the skews my view.
If the potential buyer does any online shipping they are likely to learn that a GIA Cut grade of “Good” is like the kiss of death. So many of the new stones being cut attain EX cut grade. If it was me, I’d feel bad knowing this deficit and not telling the buyer. That’s up to you.
One other possibility is a recut to improve the cut grade. Maybe reach out to cutters. Other consumer “prosumers” will likely chime in with cutters that offer such services. The weight of 3.57 means you’ll likely be able to keep it above 3 carats. A 3.25ct ( for example) GIA EX cut grade will fetch a higher price than a 3.57ct Good Cut grade of the same color/clarity.
Hope this helps!

What is the average difference between retail and wholesale prices? I'm sure it varies depending on the price of the diamond, but I really want to know. Maybe this is top secret information I am not allowed to have, haha :D
 

kmoro

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1,081
What is the average difference between retail and wholesale prices? I'm sure it varies depending on the price of the diamond, but I really want to know. Maybe this is top secret information I am not allowed to have, haha :D

From the link posted below (not top secret - I googled it :twirl:):

“Rough Diamond Consultants gives a general idea of various markups for diamonds as the diamond progresses through the various stages of being purchased, from the manufacturing to the wholesale end. They say a diamond manufacturer must make about 30 to 40 percent in gross margin converting the rough stone to a polished diamond to stay in business. By the time the wholesale broker sells the polished diamond to other wholesale brokers, his profit margin is 1 to 15 percent, or an average of 5 percent. If he sells to retail shops, profits are 10 to 30 percent, or about 20 percent on average.

Internet Loose Diamonds:

With the advent of the Internet, says diamond industry educator Truth About Diamonds, the earlier practices of marking up diamonds 100 percent or more gave way to much slimmer markups in the under 20 percent range. Because internet retailers do not have to carry the merchandise in-house themselves, but have the supplier ship it to the customer directly, they save on overhead costs, keeping the markup relatively low. These retailers, by making the buying process transparent, have forced physical retailers to bring down their markups as well, says Gemological Institute of America-accredited jewelry industry commentator iDazzle.”

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/markup-diamonds-76435.html
 

Rockdiamond

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Preface - I appreciate the link- and in no way do my comments reflect on you. Without a doubt, links like that seem to have a sort of credibility. And not all of the content is inaccurate......but....
My take as a person in this business over 40 years.....and also how I feel as a consumer.
Any link affiliated with a seller should be viewed as an ad. Terms such as "Gemological Institute of America-accredited jewelry industry commentator" or "diamond industry educator" are total BS.

The fact that part of what's written is true makes it even more difficult to cut through the parts that are promotional.

What is the average difference between retail and wholesale prices? I'm sure it varies depending on the price of the diamond, but I really want to know. Maybe this is top secret information I am not allowed to have, haha :D
Great question and not really "top secret".
The parts of the link posted that make sense are the fact that diamond/jewelry markups used to be far higher than they are today.
So the gap between "wholesale" and "retail" is no longer truly a gap.
The difference is that there's a lot of services possible to offer consumers as a seller. Also possible to sell "bare bones" without these services.
When someone claims to be selling wholesale to a person buying a single item, it's disingenuous. Most likely is that they fall into the lower- or no service category of retail sellers.

There are sellers offering diamonds well below 20%- in some cases much less than 10%. In many cases, these sellers can't even get the diamonds they are offering- but the lists available to them allow them to make it seem like they can offer the stones.
I've spoken to (true) wholesale sellers who's stones I've found at these super low margins.
Most times, the seller has never heard of the sites offering the stones- and they're not inclined to give them the stones.
If you wanted to set up a business offering a high level of service, you'd likely need to be at 20% or higher to survive.
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,081
Preface - I appreciate the link- and in no way do my comments reflect on you. Without a doubt, links like that seem to have a sort of credibility. And not all of the content is inaccurate......but....
My take as a person in this business over 40 years.....and also how I feel as a consumer.
Any link affiliated with a seller should be viewed as an ad. Terms such as "Gemological Institute of America-accredited jewelry industry commentator" or "diamond industry educator" are total BS.

The fact that part of what's written is true makes it even more difficult to cut through the parts that are promotional.


Great question and not really "top secret".
The parts of the link posted that make sense are the fact that diamond/jewelry markups used to be far higher than they are today.
So the gap between "wholesale" and "retail" is no longer truly a gap.
The difference is that there's a lot of services possible to offer consumers as a seller. Also possible to sell "bare bones" without these services.
When someone claims to be selling wholesale to a person buying a single item, it's disingenuous. Most likely is that they fall into the lower- or no service category of retail sellers.

There are sellers offering diamonds well below 20%- in some cases much less than 10%. In many cases, these sellers can't even get the diamonds they are offering- but the lists available to them allow them to make it seem like they can offer the stones.
I've spoken to (true) wholesale sellers who's stones I've found at these super low margins.
Most times, the seller has never heard of the sites offering the stones- and they're not inclined to give them the stones.
If you wanted to set up a business offering a high level of service, you'd likely need to be at 20% or higher to survive.

Thank you for this! To look at the bright side, my bad info brought your clarifying reply .. so we at least get to learn something :shifty:
 

SandyK

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Apr 9, 2016
Messages
697
Haha @kmoro and thanks to you and @Rockdiamond for responding! I had been wondering about that for awhile and Rockdiamond's post is very interesting and informative - thank you!

And so I guess it is just a bummer for me that even if I could quit my day job and go into the diamond business, it still wouldn't help me all that much in terms of buying all the diamonds I want :D
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
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1,081
Haha @kmoro and thanks to you and @Rockdiamond for responding! I had been wondering about that for awhile and Rockdiamond's post is very interesting and informative - thank you!

And so I guess it is just a bummer for me that even if I could quit my day job and go into the diamond business, it still wouldn't help me all that much in terms of buying all the diamonds I want :D

I have also been dreaming of quitting my job and going into the diamond business, lol. Maybe it would be the fast track to poverty, but I would still die with a smile on my face. I think.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Make no mistake- as difficult as the business has become- and it has-I still thank my lucky stars daily. But I honestly don’t see a future for my kids in the diamond biz
 

sledge

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Ignoring cut quality, etc it's pretty typical to get about 50-70% of current retail price when selling a used stone. You may push to the upper limits on a highly desirable stone that you find your own seller, etc or has some sort of an incentive for the person buying (you trade in a $10k stone to purchase a $30k stone for instance).

Not picking on your stone, but it has poor cut quality -- 60 table, 36.5 crown & 41.8 pavilion. I don't say this to be mean or condescending, but rather so you can adjust your expectations properly. That said, it's massive at 3.57 carats so someone will want it.

Capture2.PNG

And someone has already found you. This is huge! So rather than mess with a recut and the risk associated with harming the stone in the process, losing weight, etc I'd try to sell this stone as-is. If it doesn't work, then I'd consider a re-cut option, assuming you have the time & money to invest in getting the re-cut done.

So how do we value the stone? You need to know what average market value is for stones of similar size, color & clarity. Two methods exist. On top, go to Resources > Diamond Prices > Rounds > 3-3.99. Or use this link ;)2:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/round#3-3.99

You're going to see a chart like I screen captured below. Notice there is an AVERAGE and LOW priced chart. I am including both for your reference. This covers historical data and ignores exact cut quality, but rather looks as a blended unit.

avg.PNG

low.PNG

Now go to RareCarat.com and adjust your parameters to search for J-K color, VS1-VS2 clarity, 3.40-3.60 carats, 33.5-36 crown, 40.6-41 pavilion, medium/faint/none fluor, etc. I normally would further limit search by adjusting the crown/pavilion angles to more desirable values but here we are just looking for blended averages.

You should pop up a result similar to this:

https://www.rarecarat.com/c/88297b80-04f2-460b-9d5c-d586532f6f0c

Capture3.PNG

Now let's assemble a spread sheet using the data we have accumulated:

Capture.PNG

Analyzing this data, we can see that within the 50-70% range we have a low of $12,059 and high of $24,088.

All this said, I think you'd be getting a fair deal at the $20-24k range. Especially if the buyer is already interested, has cash and isn't a headache to procure.

ETA:
Ignore my typo in the spreadsheet that says for "stones 2.4 to 3.6". This should read 3.4 to 3.6 carats.
 

LinSF

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
511
@sledge Will you be my personal diamond evaluator? LOL.

I have nothing to offer other than to say that it's hard to sell diamonds private party, and if you have a buyer I would be all means take the offer assuming it's close to what other have mentioned in the low 20's range. Not taking the offer could result in a lengthy process to sell, one that may never leave you with satisfaction.
 

HappyNewLife

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Mar 25, 2010
Messages
2,534
Ignoring cut quality, etc it's pretty typical to get about 50-70% of current retail price when selling a used stone. You may push to the upper limits on a highly desirable stone that you find your own seller, etc or has some sort of an incentive for the person buying (you trade in a $10k stone to purchase a $30k stone for instance).

Not picking on your stone, but it has poor cut quality -- 60 table, 36.5 crown & 41.8 pavilion. I don't say this to be mean or condescending, but rather so you can adjust your expectations properly. That said, it's massive at 3.57 carats so someone will want it.

Capture2.PNG

And someone has already found you. This is huge! So rather than mess with a recut and the risk associated with harming the stone in the process, losing weight, etc I'd try to sell this stone as-is. If it doesn't work, then I'd consider a re-cut option, assuming you have the time & money to invest in getting the re-cut done.

So how do we value the stone? You need to know what average market value is for stones of similar size, color & clarity. Two methods exist. On top, go to Resources > Diamond Prices > Rounds > 3-3.99. Or use this link ;)2:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/round#3-3.99

You're going to see a chart like I screen captured below. Notice there is an AVERAGE and LOW priced chart. I am including both for your reference. This covers historical data and ignores exact cut quality, but rather looks as a blended unit.

avg.PNG

low.PNG

Now go to RareCarat.com and adjust your parameters to search for J-K color, VS1-VS2 clarity, 3.40-3.60 carats, 33.5-36 crown, 40.6-41 pavilion, medium/faint/none fluor, etc. I normally would further limit search by adjusting the crown/pavilion angles to more desirable values but here we are just looking for blended averages.

You should pop up a result similar to this:

https://www.rarecarat.com/c/88297b80-04f2-460b-9d5c-d586532f6f0c

Capture3.PNG

Now let's assemble a spread sheet using the data we have accumulated:

Capture.PNG

Analyzing this data, we can see that within the 50-70% range we have a low of $12,059 and high of $24,088.

All this said, I think you'd be getting a fair deal at the $20-24k range. Especially if the buyer is already interested, has cash and isn't a headache to procure.

ETA:
Ignore my typo in the spreadsheet that says for "stones 2.4 to 3.6". This should read 3.4 to 3.6 carats.

holy crap. :eek2::clap:
 

GabeC90

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
6
Wow thank you to everyone that has pitched in. I am learning so much! I am not sure who the buyer is as a local known jeweler is helping me sell it. We passed on a offer about a year ago for 24.5k. I probably should have sold it then. I asked for 26k from these new buyers. I will be dropping off the stone tomorrow with the jeweler so they can show the stone and see if they are interested. Thanks everyone!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
5,791
@sledge Will you be my personal diamond evaluator? LOL.

LOL, I'm your guy. You can always @hotlink me.


holy crap. :eek2::clap:

:lol: :lol:

Thank you!

Wow thank you to everyone that has pitched in. I am learning so much! I am not sure who the buyer is as a local known jeweler is helping me sell it. We passed on a offer about a year ago for 24.5k. I probably should have sold it then. I asked for 26k from these new buyers. I will be dropping off the stone tomorrow with the jeweler so they can show the stone and see if they are interested. Thanks everyone!

Hey @GabeC90, can you explain this setup a little bit further? Obviously the jeweler knows someone that is interested in the stone. Are they acting as an intermediary where they introduce you two and you directly negotiate with the buyer? Or are they selling the stone on a commission basis, meaning they get a small rake from the sale but the buyer deals with them and they do all the negotiating, servicing, etc?

Only asking because I'm curious if the $26k is NET dollars in your pocket, or if you still have to pay a commission fee out of the $26k to compensate the jeweler for their involvement?

Earlier, when I was thinking $20-24k I was under the impression you had a PRIVATE SALE where you got all the proceeds from the sale. If a jeweler has entered the picture, it's quite possible they can push for a higher sale price as they may add security via their name, trade-in program, etc. So if you agree to sell to the jeweler for $26k then he may in turn try to sell to the individuals at $30k and act as if the diamond is their inventory. The downside is that if they push too high then they may push the interested buyer away.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Ignoring cut quality, etc it's pretty typical to get about 50-70% of current retail price when selling a used stone.
Hi Sledge!
I’m curious about this number. My view is likely jaded based on where I am ( the den of sharks called NYC diamond district)
Have you heard of a lot of private sellers obtaining 70% of purchase price when they need to sell a diamond?
Around here, it seems like 50% of retail is about the most a seller can expect on a cash sale.
I very much appreciate the input- I love to get a wider perspective.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
Hi Sledge!
I’m curious about this number. My view is likely jaded based on where I am ( the den of sharks called NYC diamond district)
Have you heard of a lot of private sellers obtaining 70% of purchase price when they need to sell a diamond?
Around here, it seems like 50% of retail is about the most a seller can expect on a cash sale.
I very much appreciate the input- I love to get a wider perspective.

IMO, for a 70% number the seller needs a near ideal situation and should expect to hustle, hustle, hustle! This is the scenario where you have a highly desirable stone, found your own private buyer and can avoid commission fees, listing fees, transaction fees (VISA, PayPal), etc.

Basically the dream sale. Or the "lucky as f*ck" sale. :lol: :lol:

Honestly I think the OP should have jumped on the very first offer of $24.5k. Having sold cars and houses worth much more, it seems that many times your first FAIR offer (not just tire kickers) works out best vs waiting for (small) increases and costing you time, frustration (and interest if you have something financed).

With this adjunct of a jeweler in the mix, I doubt a 70% number is realistic anymore. Unless the jeweler can find a buyer that will pay 90%+ market price and then takes the 20%+ markup as their commission.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
18,033
I feel like 50-60% is more common for a private sale (not offered via consignment or other). I agree that op should have taken the 24.5k!!!
 
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