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Re-cutting an 8.63 r b into an old cut

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
I am new at this and chimed into an old thread last night for my first post. Lykame suggested I post a new one and would hopefully get some much needed advice.I have an 8.63 round diamond .measures 13.48 x 13.65 x 7.82
Table is 59%
Depth 57.7%
Crown 33%
Pavillion 40.4%
Girdle v.thin - medium
culet vs
Good cut,good polish ,good symmetry
I LOVE old cut diamonds and would like to recut this one .I am hoping to find someone that can cut stones the old way. I am not sure if I will lose too much weight and end up with a much smaller stone .I have smaller old cut stones in various pieces of heirloom jewelry so I'd like to keep this as close to size as possible. I have no idea what it takes to recut diamonds but I would like to learn so I am ready to hear from anyone kind enough to give advice.I am posting a picture of mine and one of my inspiration cut.Diamondseeker2006 has an incredibly beautiful stone. She was on the last thread I posted on. 20200626_193000.jpg
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,393
Yoram (diagem on here) at www.gemconcepts.net is your man!

[/end thread]

:D



It's an interesting situation, though - much comment has been made about how all the big old cuts from yesteryear were re-cut into MRBs when MRBs were new, leaving very few genuine old cuts around... but what if 30 years from now all the big MRBs have been re-cut into other shapes, leaving very few of them around??

:???:

:lol:
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
I am new at this and chimed into an old thread last night for my first post. Lykame suggested I post a new one and would hopefully get some much needed advice.I have an 8.63 round diamond .measures 13.48 x 13.65 x 7.82
Table is 59%
Depth 57.7%
Crown 33%
Pavillion 40.4%
Girdle v.thin - medium
culet vs
Good cut,good polish ,good symmetry
I LOVE old cut diamonds and would like to recut this one .I am hoping to find someone that can cut stones the old way. I am not sure if I will lose too much weight and end up with a much smaller stone .I have smaller old cut stones in various pieces of heirloom jewelry so I'd like to keep this as close to size as possible. I have no idea what it takes to recut diamonds but I would like to learn so I am ready to hear from anyone kind enough to give advice.I am posting a picture of mine and one of my inspiration cut.Diamondseeker2006 has an incredibly beautiful stone. She was on the last thread I posted on. 20200626_193000.jpg
1593260583113.png
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
Yoram (diagem on here) at www.gemconcepts.net is your man!

[/end thread]

:D



It's an interesting situation, though - much comment has been made about how all the big old cuts from yesteryear were re-cut into MRBs when MRBs were new, leaving very few genuine old cuts around... but what if 30 years from now all the big MRBs have been re-cut into other shapes, leaving very few of them around??

:???:

:lol:
AV_ sent me there to Instagram last night I liked what I saw but was not sure who to contact. Thank you.
 
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mewing

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
27
I am new at this and chimed into an old thread last night for my first post. Lykame suggested I post a new one and would hopefully get some much needed advice.I have an 8.63 round diamond .measures 13.48 x 13.65 x 7.82
Table is 59%
Depth 57.7%
Crown 33%
Pavillion 40.4%
Girdle v.thin - medium
culet vs
Good cut,good polish ,good symmetry
I LOVE old cut diamonds and would like to recut this one .I am hoping to find someone that can cut stones the old way. I am not sure if I will lose too much weight and end up with a much smaller stone .I have smaller old cut stones in various pieces of heirloom jewelry so I'd like to keep this as close to size as possible. I have no idea what it takes to recut diamonds but I would like to learn so I am ready to hear from anyone kind enough to give advice.I am posting a picture of mine and one of my inspiration cut.Diamondseeker2006 has an incredibly beautiful stone. She was on the last thread I posted on. 20200626_193000.jpg
This is such a lovely diamond! Leave it be :(
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,393
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
253
I gasped when I saw your stone - it’s stunning!

I would be hesitant to cut an MRB to an OEC, I would think that you would lose too much weight / value. Ofc an expert cutter will be able to give you a more considered opinion, so you lose nothing by enquiring about it, but if you’re intent on recutting I would get it recut to a better-cut MRB. Personally though I would leave it as it is! It’s such a stunning stone. I would set it in a more vintage setting and leave it the way it is.
 

KKJohnson

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
1,776
Oh please keep us updated on your recut journey! I also went to Southwest Diamond Cutters (because I live in Dallas where they are located, I was considering having my antique marquise recut into a moval but decided against it.

they were very nice but I would definitely try Yoram first as that will give you an amazing stone cut by an amazing person
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
I gasped when I saw your stone - it’s stunning!

I would be hesitant to cut an MRB to an OEC, I would think that you would lose too much weight / value. Ofc an expert cutter will be able to give you a more considered opinion, so you lose nothing by enquiring about it, but if you’re intent on recutting I would get it recut to a better-cut MRB. Personally though I would leave it as it is! It’s such a stunning stone. I would set it in a more vintage setting and leave it the way it is.
Thank you. I have thought about resetting but love the old cuts so much I was hoping to get some sound advice on my options..
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
253
Thank you. I have thought about resetting but love the old cuts so much I was hoping to get some sound advice on my options..
Definitely, no harm in finding out! I will say that upon rethinking my initial comment I wouldn’t cut it to a more “ideal” modern rb - I like the slight imperfections especially if you’re going to set them in a more vintage style - unless it really wouldn’t take too much weight off. If cutting to an OEC or transitional can be done without sacrificing too much weight, that would be great - I would still try to keep it above the 8.5ct (might be too much of a stretch though) or 8.25/8ct mark though.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,865
I remember that one very beautiful old european brilliant around here is fairly close to the proportions of yours perhaps - I recall table/depth & no more. The owner is @dreamer_dachsie

AV_ sent me there to Instagram last night I liked what I saw but was not sure who to contact.
I do not know if they might help with this, in fact.


_____

ps.

May I ask for any details about the wonderful pearl necklace in your avatar? Natural pearls have me at 'hello'!
 
Last edited:

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
Definitely, no harm in finding out! I will say that upon rethinking my initial comment I wouldn’t cut it to a more “ideal” modern rb - I like the slight imperfections especially if you’re going to set them in a more vintage style - unless it really wouldn’t take too much weight off. If cutting to an OEC or transitional can be done without sacrificing too much weight, that would be great - I would still try to keep it above the 8.5ct (might be too much of a stretch though) or 8.25/8ct mark though.
I have no idea how the science of re-cutting works so I am open to all opinions. This will be a right hand ring or pendant,not sure. I Love,Love Love the antique settings,Edwardian especially so not sure how leaving it be would look in one of those setting. Finding an old one is also a challenge for the measurement of my diamond.
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
I remember that one very beautiful old european brilliant around here is fairly close to the proportions of yours perhaps - I recall table/depth & no more. The owner is @dreamer_dachsie



I do not know if they might help with this, in fact.


_____

ps.

May I ask for any details about the wonderful pearl necklace in your avatar? Natural pearls have me at 'hello'!
Well AV_,It is a family piece,a necklace, I love it and wear it every chance I get. It has silver on the top of the necklace and gold on the back. There are pearls and they are all different colors and shapes,many imperfect but I like that.The appraisal states 20 carats of old cuts of diamonds.Not sure of much else,expensive according to the appraisal.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
253
Well AV_,It is a family piece,a necklace, I love it and wear it every chance I get. It has silver on the top of the necklace and gold on the back. There are pearls and they are all different colors and shapes,many imperfect but I like that.The appraisal states 20 carats of old cuts of diamonds.Not sure of much else,expensive according to the appraisal.
That necklace is gorgeous, btw! Your pieces are beyond words!!
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,865
There are pearls and they are all different colors and shapes,many imperfect but I like that.
Fancy color natural pinctada pearls, I would think, and I am not seeing imperfections - there might be, but natural pearls get away with much more [eg. 'imprefections' - www , the colors in the pin are more typical to another classical species]

Delighted!
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
That necklace is gorgeous, btw! Your pieces are beyond words!!
Thank you. I have enjoyed wearing many wonderful old pieces from family over the years .I have picked up a few pieces here and there, shopping antiques markets too .I am drawn to the old,and am not really a fan of new jewelry.I am having my engagement/wedding diamond upgrade, set in an antique reproduction setting, so we shall see. I have found a lot of good information on here including artists that hand make jewelry,in the old style .I am excited to see how it turns out.I will reach out to the diamond cutters referred to me and let you all know what I find out. Thanks to all that are chiming in.
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
Fancy color natural pinctada pearls, I would think, and I am not seeing imperfections - there might be, but natural pearls get away with much more [eg. 'imprefections' - www , the colors in the pin are more typical to another classical species]

Delighted!
AV_I may have misspoken saying imperfections. What I mean is they are different shades and shapes,not all matched like in a strand of pearls.
 
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Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
AV_I may have misspoken saying imperfections. What I mean is they are different shades and shapes,not all matched like in a strand of pearls.
I just looked at your pin and yes, they have different coloring and some button.
 
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Lykame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
1,349
Thank you for posting the new thread!

Your stone is amazing! Would love to see more photos of it. Really looking forward to following this journey you are on. You clearly have lots of phenomenal pieces, we are never shy about seeing such things and sharing your joy. There's a pearl forum for example... :D

What sort of loss on it are you willing to take? By this I mean size and value. I can't begin to imagine what this diamond is worth but my understanding is you see price jumps at each quarter carat and especially at the carat mark. So for example going to below 8.5 carats would be a hit but going below eight carats would really be a hit. However you have some material to work with. I think you really need to do your research (as you are clearly doing) to find out what the likely loss will be so you can decide whether that's acceptable to you.

Is it insured? It would need to be for such a venture and it's going to be an extremely expensive stone. Recutting is not without risk.

You mentioned some GIA information - thank you - but what about colour and clarity? Inclusions can have an impact on the ability to recut. I think recuts can even lead to a change in those assignments too, but I wouldn't know whether that was always for the better.

You sound enthralled by the prospect of recutting into @diamondseeker2006's transitional style, and that's great, but give some consideration to the alternatives just so you know what you're saying no to. Having said that, I think cutting what you have to a transitional sounds like less of a loss than what you have to an OEC, for example. I have an ideal cut MRB and I love it but I actually think these massive stones are better in old style cuts.

Let us know what the various vendors say!

There are some other recut threads on here, you found one clearly but there are some more - worth hunting them down too!

Best of luck!
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,760
When recutting think of the original as rough that the new stones has to fit inside of.
Your diamond is not a canidate for a full oec recut without huge loss in weight and value
A traditional oec just does not fit very well inside what you have without removing a lot of material.
Are recut to what many call a transitional cut may be possible.
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
Thank you for posting the new thread!

Your stone is amazing! Would love to see more photos of it. Really looking forward to following this journey you are on. You clearly have lots of phenomenal pieces, we are never shy about seeing such things and sharing your joy. There's a pearl forum for example... :D

What sort of loss on it are you willing to take? By this I mean size and value. I can't begin to imagine what this diamond is worth but my understanding is you see price jumps at each quarter carat and especially at the carat mark. So for example going to below 8.5 carats would be a hit but going below eight carats would really be a hit. However you have some material to work with. I think you really need to do your research (as you are clearly doing) to find out what the likely loss will be so you can decide whether that's acceptable to you.

Is it insured? It would need to be for such a venture and it's going to be an extremely expensive stone. Recutting is not without risk.

You mentioned some GIA information - thank you - but what about colour and clarity? Inclusions can have an impact on the ability to recut. I think recuts can even lead to a change in those assignments too, but I wouldn't know whether that was always for the better.

You sound enthralled by the prospect of recutting into @diamondseeker2006's transitional style, and that's great, but give some consideration to the alternatives just so you know what you're saying no to. Having said that, I think cutting what you have to a transitional sounds like less of a loss than what you have to an OEC, for example. I have an ideal cut MRB and I love it but I actually think these massive stones are better in old style cuts.

Let us know what the various vendors say!

There are some other recut threads on here, you found one clearly but there are some more - worth hunting them down too!

Best of luck!
Thank you, Lykame! It took me a minute to figure out how to start a new thread but after going to Rocky Talk I figured it out. The stone is GIA certified but we cannot locate the certificate and we don't have a number for it. It was done many moons ago. The info was hand written down on an old piece of paper in the safe. Who knows where the document went. The color is M and the clarity grade is SI1 . The inclusions are tiny pinpoints so I am not sure if that would impact cutting. GIA would have to redo it and it is like over $800.00.I figured if I recut,I would spend the money then to get new paperwork on it.It is not insured because it lives in the safe except when I pull it out to look at it.I don't mind the stone as is but I love the old chunky, pillowy look of the old diamonds..I have other family stones,much smaller, old mine cut 1.31 vs I color set in a ring ,and old European cut 1.37 vvs1 G color and a transitional 3.35 G SI1 also in a ring . Additionally,two have gone to my daughters for their engagement rings. Some smaller in necklaces and a platinum pin with lots of old cut stones I only wear in the winter.

As far as willingness of loss of the diamond weight,I would have to have someone tell me what I am looking at. Since I do not understand the nitty gritty of how diamonds are cut, I have no clue how they do it..

I am trying to read other threads and learn more about different things on here.Thanks for the info on other threads. So much to see and read , it is overwhelming.I went to the safe and pulled out one of the shelves for you and took pic.I'll try and get you some more pics of this diamond we are chatting about when I return from dinner this evening.These are family pieces I love and wear. There are others and of course ,some that I will never wear because they are not my style.Now perhaps one can understand why I want this diamond redone, to go with my other pieces.I would then want an old setting,too! 20200627_162959.jpg
 

Tinkybell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
76
When recutting think of the original as rough that the new stones has to fit inside of.
Your diamond is not a canidate for a full oec recut without huge loss in weight and value
A traditional oec just does not fit very well inside what you have without removing a lot of material.
Are recut to what many call a transitional cut may be possible.
Thank you Karl_K.I will do some homework and see if it is worth it to rework it. Everyone has been so helpful.I never realized how important cut is until I started reading here.
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
10,820
The 8.63 is a family stone? Would you mind telling us some history on it? Was it your grandmother’s or something?
 
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