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Ransom to Iran for hostages?

partgypsy

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I agree that this could set a bad precedent. I'm glad we have a free press to report on such things.
 

AnnaH

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Disturbing. First the horrible "deal" with Iran and then this.
 

redwood66

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It does not matter that the administration sees this a two separate issues - payment toward the 1.7 billion and negotiating release of the hostages. Iran absolutely sees it as a ransom payment and therein lies the problem that will open the door to more hostage taking.
 

kenny

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What do y'all think Trump would do?
 

Dancing Fire

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Another sign of weakness from the Obama Admin.
 

kenny

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36968389

The White House has dismissed claims that the US paid a ransom to Iran in exchange for the release of five American prisoners.
The five prisoners were released in January in exchange for seven Iranians who were detained in the US for violating sanctions.
The exchange came as the US lifted international sanctions against Iran as part of the country's nuclear deal.
The US also airlifted $400m (£300.3m) worth of cash to Iran at the same time.

The Wall Street Journal reported that US officials sent an unmarked cargo plane loaded with Euros, Swiss, Francs and other currencies, suggesting that the payment may have been related to the release of five Americans, which included Washington Post reporter Jason Rezaian.
But White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest denied the link, saying the payment settled a longstanding dispute between the two countries from before the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
Mr Earnest said Republicans who oppose the landmark Iran nuclear deal have used the payment as a means of undermining the accord.
"They're struggling to justify their opposition to our engagement with Iran," he said at a White House press briefing.

After the world's six major powers announced they would lift sanctions against Iran as a part of the implementation of the historic landmark deal, Tehran and Washington also agreed to settle a number of disputes between the two countries.

As Mr Earnest said in a press briefing on 19 January, the $400m (£300.3m) payment was "the result of a long-running claims process that had been at The Hague".
The then-Iranian government had purchased $400m (£300.3m) in US military equipment before it was overthrown in the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
The Obama administration had agreed to repay Tehran $1.7bn, which included the original payment as well as interest.

Since Iran's financial institutions were completely cut off from the global electronic banking system at the time of the payment, it had to be made in cash.
The sanctions also meant it was illegal to make the payment in US dollars.
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump took to Twitter to blame his Democratic opponent, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, for the payment.
 

redwood66

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Like I said earlier.

It does not matter that the administration sees this a two separate issues - payment toward the 1.7 billion and negotiating release of the hostages. Iran absolutely sees it as a ransom payment and therein lies the problem that will open the door to more hostage taking.

The Iranians were reporting it as such on state media.
 

AnnaH

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In yesterday's press conference, the President was asked one question about this, no follow up, and then several questions about why he thinks Trump is unfit.
Trump making a joke about a crying baby seems to be more interesting than the President paying for hostages. One of the hostages said they waited for "the other plane" to land before they could leave.
 

redwood66

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I saw that press conference and was very irritated at the president's tone in non-answering. He was indignant and brushed it off as old news. The press is treating it like some "spy novel" he said. Well don't do shit in the middle of the night without telling anyone. Be the most transparent administration you said you would be. Right.... Most media is just in the bag for these progressive liberals a-holes and it is soooo frustrating.
 

AnnaH

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Red, neither of us is happy with Trump, but there's little objectivity in media coverage, I agree. The media is so powerful, sometimes I wonder if even a great conservative candidate could be elected to the presidency. Is it possible that the public at large will recognize the bias, and it will backfire?
 

redwood66

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I don't know if it would because Trump is such a loose cannon all they have to do is cover him without saying anything really. But the fact that they do not equally cover things like this is just reprehensible. I love the fact that Bob Woodward consistently hammered Hillary about the email scandal and the foundation though.
 

Dancing Fire

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kenny|1470250703|4062168 said:
What do y'all think Trump would do?
I can tell you what Reagan would do.... give them the middle finger :whistle:
 

Bayek

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Dancing Fire|1470435086|4062907 said:
kenny|1470250703|4062168 said:
What do y'all think Trump would do?
I can tell you what Reagan would do.... give them the middle finger :whistle:
True, but since the USA not Obama owed the money through the international court what can one do, if it helped get hostages back then that is even better.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/08/03/fact-checking-republican-claims-obamas-secret-iran-payment.html

I don't understand conservatives, I don't get why they see the absolute worst in Obama??? Obama can't just willy nilly send 400 million to Iran, not like writing a check for heaven's sake.
 

redwood66

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Tekate|1470507269|4063085 said:
Dancing Fire|1470435086|4062907 said:
kenny|1470250703|4062168 said:
What do y'all think Trump would do?
I can tell you what Reagan would do.... give them the middle finger :whistle:
if it helped get hostages back then that is even better.
Then he should call it what it is and not try to hide it in the middle of the night, unmarked plane without telling anyone if it was so innocuous.
 

Bayek

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Bayek

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redwood66|1470507625|4063086 said:
Tekate|1470507269|4063085 said:
Dancing Fire|1470435086|4062907 said:
kenny|1470250703|4062168 said:
What do y'all think Trump would do?
I can tell you what Reagan would do.... give them the middle finger :whistle:
if it helped get hostages back then that is even better.
Then he should call it what it is and not try to hide it in the middle of the night, unmarked plane without telling anyone if it was so innocuous.
they DID call it what it was read my link... why believe something nefarious rather than the truth???? Redwood, we owed that money through The Iran-United States Claims Tribunal .. I believe that it didn't hurt the hostages and maybe it helped get them back but that wasn't why he paid Iran, and they wanted it in cash (iran). http://www.iusct.net/ website for the tribunal set up in 1981 what I find SO dismaying about this whole thing is the lack of reading on our elected leaders, they should have done due diligence before creating this havoc.. how can we trust these noobs to do anything right? why elect them if they don't EVEN know what is going on in the government they were elected in... it's terribly shoddy, and very shady on the republicans to not do Due Dilgence, I do that when I buy a home, a car, get a loan, etc.. it's actually disgusting that they don't do their job.
 

redwood66

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Many, including me, believe that based on the actions of Iran and their state sponsored terror since the payment for planes in 1979 constitutes that debt null and void. Regardless of any international tribunal. There are outstanding monies owed to family members who have been directly affected by Iran and its terrorism. Give it to them instead. That is occasionally how it works for criminals here if $ is seized.
 

Bayek

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redwood66|1470509005|4063094 said:
Many, including me, believe that based on the actions of Iran and their state sponsored terror since the payment for planes in 1979 constitutes that debt null and void. Regardless of any international tribunal. There are outstanding monies owed to family members who have been directly affected by Iran and its terrorism. Give it to them instead. That is occasionally how it works for criminals here if $ is seized.
Well, many Americans feel that their mortgages should be null and void due to the fact that bankers and wall street were schmucks, but that didn't happen. I was raised to pay my debts, I have, I don't know who the many are but the many can't just decide that we should not pay back money that was paid to the United States for planes, if you read the tribunal website it is made up of 9 members 3 USA 3 Iranian and 3 others agreed upon. This is back in 79, it's taken this long to pay off the debt and if you read the article I posted Iran has paid us much more back.. I suppose we all could have agreed to say sorry not paying you but we as America got the better of the deal because we actually owed 10billion.. 400 million plus 1billion in interest.. pretty good deal.. so would you and the many others feel that Iran should have paid the US back? I still reiterate that republicans in Congress making a lie and a big deal out of something that they should have known about shows either bias against Obama or ignorance of their jobs.

Yeah about criminals but we aren't criminals, we owed them their money back. We got our money back from the Iranians, so do you think they should have paid us back and then we don't pay back? I hope not.
 

Bayek

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redwood66|1470428855|4062875 said:
I saw that press conference and was very irritated at the president's tone in non-answering. He was indignant and brushed it off as old news. The press is treating it like some "spy novel" he said. Well don't do shit in the middle of the night without telling anyone. Be the most transparent administration you said you would be. Right.... Most media is just in the bag for these progressive liberals a-holes and it is soooo frustrating.
What I read was ALL the media questioned the White House for over 20 minutes and the frustration was due to the lack of reading and research on the parts of the media and the republicans. I don't know how people can believe the right winged news because they do not do their due diligence, they don't research and they don't check, if they had they would have seen this was owed, the country agreed to it back in 79 (throught the great Reagans time btw).. and we got our money back.
 

Bayek

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redwood66|1470509005|4063094 said:
Many, including me, believe that based on the actions of Iran and their state sponsored terror since the payment for planes in 1979 constitutes that debt null and void. Regardless of any international tribunal. There are outstanding monies owed to family members who have been directly affected by Iran and its terrorism. Give it to them instead. That is occasionally how it works for criminals here if $ is seized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_Claims_Tribunal
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_Accords

The tribunal was set up by none other than the great and lamented Ronnie Reagan.

President Reagan confirmed the Algiers Accords, and the constitutionality of these arrangements was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Dames & Moore v. Regan.[1]

U.S. officials who participated in the Iran Hostage Crisis (1979-1981) have discussed that diplomacy and the Algiers Accords in American Hostages In Iran: The Conduct of a Crisis (Yale 1985) and in Revolutionary Days: The Iran Hostage Crisis and the Hague Claims Tribunal, A Look Back (Juris 1996). See also Symposium on the Settlement with Iran, March 6–7, 1981, Lawyer of the Americas, U Miami J. Int’l Law (Special Issue, Spring 1981).



So to the some I say, Reagan approved it because Reagan was a bit light he knew he as America had standing in the world and this was the right thing to do.
 

redwood66

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Tekate|1470510487|4063102 said:
redwood66|1470428855|4062875 said:
I saw that press conference and was very irritated at the president's tone in non-answering. He was indignant and brushed it off as old news. The press is treating it like some "spy novel" he said. Well don't do shit in the middle of the night without telling anyone. Be the most transparent administration you said you would be. Right.... Most media is just in the bag for these progressive liberals a-holes and it is soooo frustrating.
What I read was ALL the media questioned the White House for over 20 minutes and the frustration was due to the lack of reading and research on the parts of the media and the republicans. I don't know how people can believe the right winged news because they do not do their due diligence, they don't research and they don't check, if they had they would have seen this was owed, the country agreed to it back in 79 (throught the great Reagans time btw).. and we got our money back.
I knew it was owed. Left wing media is just as bad.
 

redwood66

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Tekate|1470512566|4063111 said:
redwood66|1470509005|4063094 said:
Many, including me, believe that based on the actions of Iran and their state sponsored terror since the payment for planes in 1979 constitutes that debt null and void. Regardless of any international tribunal. There are outstanding monies owed to family members who have been directly affected by Iran and its terrorism. Give it to them instead. That is occasionally how it works for criminals here if $ is seized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_Claims_Tribunal
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_Accords

The tribunal was set up by none other than the great and lamented Ronnie Reagan.

President Reagan confirmed the Algiers Accords, and the constitutionality of these arrangements was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Dames & Moore v. Regan.[1]

U.S. officials who participated in the Iran Hostage Crisis (1979-1981) have discussed that diplomacy and the Algiers Accords in American Hostages In Iran: The Conduct of a Crisis (Yale 1985) and in Revolutionary Days: The Iran Hostage Crisis and the Hague Claims Tribunal, A Look Back (Juris 1996). See also Symposium on the Settlement with Iran, March 6–7, 1981, Lawyer of the Americas, U Miami J. Int’l Law (Special Issue, Spring 1981).



So to the some I say, Reagan approved it because Reagan was a bit light he knew he as America had standing in the world and this was the right thing to do.
We shall agree to disagree at this point. :wavey:

ETA this is 2016 and Iran has continued state sponsored terrorism.
 

Bayek

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I don't know what point we are going to have to agree to disagree Redwood, I like you, you are a staunch, stick in the mud tea party conservative, I'm a staunch, stick in the mud, liberal democrat.. But you will end this because you cannot retort. This was NOT money for hostages, we are citizens of the world, we have to abide by the rules set up the great Reagan, so I think what you said was: I think we should not returned Iranian money that we owed - started by the great supply side Reagan, even though since 1981 we have agreed to a tribunal, every president since then EVERY has agreed with it, be it republicans or democrats, and you didn't answer my question when I asked should the Iranians return USA money (which they did).

Whenever I get into a discussion with very conservative people (friends, brother etc). when confronted with facts that cannot be disputed they say, I'm not going to talk about it anymore.

I'll end it with: Republican lawmakers who descended upon Obama for this do not seem not to care about the history or facts of this money, they jump on some bandwagon of hate of obama, make up stuff and the right winged Americans eat it up rather than research the whole story (as the republicans should have).

I know you are a nice person, I know I am a nice person, but I urge you rather than to even believe me, read the websites, read the history, you may not agree it was correct of Reagan to acquiesce to it, but he did so we are bound, as the Iranians were bound to return our money. No one took umbrage under either of the Bush's that I remember or Clinton.

Peace to you and everyone.
 

Bayek

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redwood66|1470515179|4063118 said:
If you feel you need the last word you have it. Peace.
No I felt that your answer wasn't an answer and I really urged you to read what the history of this is. Trump/Cruz/whomever is still going to have to abide by it.. although from all my reading this might have been the end of all the payments back and forth. I wish you peace and good reading.
 

redwood66

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Tekate|1470515763|4063119 said:
redwood66|1470515179|4063118 said:
If you feel you need the last word you have it. Peace.
No I felt that your answer wasn't an answer and I really urged you to read what the history of this is. Trump/Cruz/whomever is still going to have to abide by it.. although from all my reading this might have been the end of all the payments back and forth. I wish you peace and good reading.
I did read it and thank you for it. But it does not mean that I agree with you and hopefully you are good with that. I realize that someone not seeing it your way is frustrating.


ETA - The problem I have with this 400m is how it was done. They could have been upfront with all of it. Even if all of what Time says is true. Be upfront and tell the people and do it in the daylight. The Time article does nothing to change my mind about that.
 

Niel

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kenny|1470250703|4062168 said:
What do y'all think Trump would do?
Kill their wife's and children
 

AnnaH

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This is an important issue and worthy of discussion, so good on those who participate.
Just as it seems to libs that conservatives always find fault with the President, conservatives think that libs believe the President can do no wrong.
Pres. Obama sees the Iranian deal as his signature foreign policy accomplishment. Supposedly this deal cripples Iran's efforts to have nuclear weapons. Rather, at best, it merely kicks the problem down the road to the next administration.
Iran continues to take American hostages, no doubt encouraged by the recent deal/ransome. They continue to support terrorists. Even the Obama administration admits that we can't be sure how the money is spent.
Understandable that Red sees this issue as a stand off. It's unlikely that we will accept the President's explanation, just as others are unlikely to believe he's disingenuous.
 
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