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Radiant (should I buy it or not?)

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donny

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
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Hi all,

I''m new to this diamond thing and I would like some advice on this stone. I would also like a better understanding on the radiant cut diamond. The table and depth is so confusing! I got some good advice from Nicrez and Cut Nut...thanks guys! Nicrez said the table and depth of the diamond I''m looking at is terrible. I agree with him but the reason why I''m still hanging on to this diamond is because the price is great ($7000). I''m hoping that it will still be brilliant enough to get some attention! Anyone''s opinion on this will be much appreciated. This is really stressing me out. I want to get the best stone for my money. It''s tough to get a nice stone in Dallas. Most importantly, is this stone worth buying? Attached is the cert, it''s missing the other half, I hope the other half is not important. The whole cert was to big to upload. Again, thanks in advance!

Donny

d4454.gif
 
What I am saying is that you would effectively be spending $7000 on a stone that will have the same spread as a smaler stone of about 1.4cts or so...

It is simply TOO DEEP, and the table is SO MUCH greater than the depth that it would not be a quality cut. It COULD be a lovely stone, but I can guarantee you that compared to a better cut princess or round stone, that stone WILL look lifeless and lack fire of a better cut.

Have you searched for the radiants on-line here? You can always have the stone you most like SHIPPED to your home or an appraiser near you to view BEFORE you pay for it fully...we did that, and even though we bought our stone at a Radiant retailer, we would do it again, since we know the numbers we want to stay within...

Try this chart to look for better proportions that show more efficiently cut stones:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc2.asp

Doing a search of PriceScope's home page for a radiant with your specs, I saw this stone in the SAME carat weight:
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=1980457

Your stone has 40.7165 mm of surface area
The Whiteflash stone has 49.4955 mm of surface area.

That's not too good a spread on your stone... I still am not nuts about the other stone's LARGE table, but at least you are getting a larger looking stone for under $8000, and it's more efficiently cut than the stone you are looking at. Yes your price is GREAT for a well cut stone (impossible even), but you are getting a cut that is barely worth the $7000. Sometimes in life you get what you pay for!

Sorry, I call them like I see them, and I think your salesperson is just trying to off load an ugly stone on you for $7K... better go smaller and lower in color, but a fairly better cut with table and depth in the late 60%'s... or just get a stone that has a slightly larger table, but a smaller carat weight...
 
Nicrez is right - you get what you pay for. That stone doesn't look like a 1.50 ct radiant, and given the other specs, isn't likely to have the proper brilliance. A well cut E SI1 1.50 carat radiant will cost over $10,000 wherever you find it. Beware of anything priced below that. Also, radiant specs are good for ruling out, not ruling in. You can identify problem areas off the specs, but cannot tell if a stone is nice. There is no substitute for seeing the stone - that's why many smart people still shop at bricks and morter stores.
 
Thanks guys!
I've just receive the stone today. Oh it was so terrible! The stone looked milky white. It wasn't clear or anything it looked dead. No life to it. I went straight to the post office and sent it back to where it came from. I think I'm done with fancy cuts. I'll just stick with round brilliance. The most important thing to me now is size and cuts. I'm now thinking about buying a round stone. This is the way I'm heading. I want people to look at the stone and say wow (cuts and size) but, the only thing is the color is very low, a "k". Would this be a bad way to go? Is color really that important as in, would it make the stone look bad? Please give me some thoughts. Here are the specs. Oh, I know it says Ideal cut but is it really? Thanks again guys! Sorry for the trouble.
wavey.gif


measurement 7.80-7.77x4.84
carat weight 1.80
cut Ideal
color K
clarity vvs1
depth% 62.2%
table% 57%
symmetry: very good
polish: excellent
girdle: thin to medium,faceted
culet: none
fluorescence: faint
comment: inscription
 
Donny,

I suppose I never considered asking you what brought you to a radiant shape in the first place. Fancy cuts generally tend to be slightly less expensive than round stones, Since they are "less" in demand. but a well cut fancy will still have a bit of a premium, and there is reason for it. Better optics = a better, livlier stone that more people notice.

Round stones are the most traditional, and are great if you don't have an idea of what your fiancee would like. Radiants to me where the only choice when i did my search because I didn't want a round stone for my e-ngagement ring. I personally wanted something unique and beautiful that few people had, and it was a personal preference.

This round stone you posted, in all honesty sounds like many people here will admit that it is NOT within ideal parameters. It has a deeper depth than most people look for and the color of a K will be quite warm, and will show it's body color, especially in such a cut. I am hoping the faint florescence will whiten it up a bit. Clarity is quite high, and so you know this stone is NOT the kind that will increase in value for having such high clarity. Clarity actually costs more to upgrade than color, so it's a bit of a waste to have a VVS1 and a K color with a very deep stone...

Let us know your budget, and maybe we can point out some nicer stones?
 
Well, I first was looking for a round stone and then when I saw a radiant stone from Tiffany's, it totally changed my mind. Like you said it look unique and I wanted something different. After searching for quite sometime now, I can't seem to find anything that is even close to the one at Tiffany's. As I've remember it, the one at Tiffany was not even a high color I think its an "I". It had so much fire in it....that's why I wanted to get a radiant. Maybe I'm not looking at the right places. I don't want to give up looking, but it's just so hard to find a nice cut radiant. That is why I'm going back to the round stone. If anyone could help or see any nice cut radiant....please! show me! Cut is most important to me. My budget is $8000, I'm willing to go a little higher depending on if it's worth it or not. Please help this poor guy out! He's getting grey hair. Thanks in advance!


donny
 
If D color is not your outmost priority, I would say take a look at the K/VVS. The numbers promise something very lovely indeed, as much as I can guess from this side of the screen. And there is much good to be said about this range of color grades, in my 0.2 worth opinion.

Not that K/VVS is an immediately intuitive pair. But the dollar value of the clarity premium is not the same for any color grade of course, so there is no injustice to pair high clarity with K. There was a longer discussion on a recent thread about “matching color and clarity”… you may want to look (LINK). That VVS would look as clean as a lower grade - sure, granted but if this particular piece turn out lovely because of an unusually greta cut is no bad news.

The AGA cut charts are popular for judging fancy cuts around here and it is worth taking a look at least to tell what is “too deep”. These are cited and explained in the tutorial (HERE) and their author, David Atlas, is posting often on Pricescope.

And… to keep all things tops here’s one radiant by-the-book: 1.4cts. G/VS21.44ct. G/VS2

I see no reason to go over your current budget really. This 1.44 is as larger as your first choice (by diameter and surface).

The K color piece is near square - is this what you want? If so, one of those harts and arrows squares may be the answe. Here's one: the Jubilee.

Hope this helps a bit
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Donny, is that last stone a round or a Radiant?

Also, Radiants don't exist in Tiffany's. Those cuts are special cuts that are called Lucida (I am guessing that is what you saw) I attached a Lucida picture for your confirmation. I say this only to explain that a Lucida really has no equal in exact look, however there are quite a few stones that match it's beauty (in my opinion).

I personally went to look at Lucidas in Tiffany's. Same color and clarity that I currently have on my Radiant was actually almost $10,000 more. We didn't think it was necessary, and I know you can get a lovely stone for $8000. A generic radiant can be a good deal, if you search. That's the tough part, because our search lasted for 4 months+, but we finally got a stone that made us happy and a price that didn't break the bank. It's always a tough search whatever shape or budget!

I have to say, I like the Radiant that Ana posted. It has a larger table than depth, which to me is quite nice, because you get a "larger looking" stone for your carat weight, but also get a really great whiteness to it, for having a shallower depth, and the percentages for both are quite desirable! Also, it's in your budget. If possible, I would check to see if you can see this stone in person, it may be a good one!!!

engagement_lucida_lucida.jpg
 
Actually, Tiffany carries radiants as well Lucidas. Since they carry only the finest makes, you likely saw a beautiful radiant. A radiant can be beautiful or ugly depending on the cut quality. Have you looked for stores in your area carrying the "Original Radiant." I think Kubes Jewelers in Fort Worth is one of their distributors.
 
Donny,

I have to agree with Nic, the one that Ana posted from GOG looks really promising, with a great spread for the weight. Don't give up entirely on Radiants, I know it is frustrating to find THE one for you, but when you find it you will be happy that you pursued a Radiant! (I have one myself!)

Good luck!
 
Yes it's a round stone(vvs1 "k") sorry I left that out. You all have been so supportive and helpful, I'm very thankful for that. I'm back on the search again! Ana is the one you post a Square? I'm looking for between 1.0-1.1 or as close to a square as possible. It says rectangular, everything seem to look good on the stone. I hope it lean toward the square side. With the measurements do you think it would pass for a 1.5 carat? Do ya'll think it's close to a square? If it is, I well contact them and work something out.
appl.gif
That exciting feeling is starting to come back....thanks again! You all made my day better!



donny
 
Donny,

It is 1 to 1.24 so it will appear rectangular. If you are set on square you must keep looking. They are out there!! And they are very pretty!
 
Donny,

You may want to check this one at DCD, it is pretty square and in your price range. It is also in DCD's Signature Radiant section. Remember though, fancy cuts need to be seen to know whether you like the look of it or not!

Maybe Ana or Nic can take a look at the numbers.

Good luck!
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Wow, I didn't ever see tha radiant in the E-ring section. I even walked in and asked and the salesperson lead me to the Lucidas saying that was what they had closest to a radiant. Also, they don't advertise them in their on-line site for e-rings... I wonder why?!

I know they carry radiants in canary yellow, but not aware they had them in e-rings! Good to know...

As for the stones posted they all seem to have their virtues. Quite lovely, but I also suggest that if you want a greater chance of finding a square (Box Radiant) you may want to CALL these retailers to ASK specifically if they know of any stones (in or not yet in inventory) that would fit your description. Definately check out the jeweler that Moosewendy recommended, because I have a feeling getting a well cut box radiant will be tough (that's what I searched for) and eventually I found it at the Original Radiant retailer... It's a good place to start, an hopefully it will yeild you some choices.
 
Ok! between the two stone which one ya'll think is a better stone? Ana's 1.44 G VS2 or Icelady's 1.42 G SI-1? As far as the ratio thing, I'll find out how rectanguler this 1.24 is. Reason why I want to stick to the square side is that I have in mind of a ring I liked. I'll show you pic and please tell me what you think it would look like with a 1.24 ratio radiant stone. Oh Nicrez! I've been to Kubes Jewelers and I didn't think it was worth an 1 hour 30min driving. Don't get me wrong they were very nice and helpful, the only thing is that the radiant wasn't how I've expect it to be. Maybe they were low in inventory. I didn't see any Wow! stone! The price was off the roof, something like "I" SI-1 1.55 carat price at $10500. I saw the price on the tag and figure, in most case it would not be the price. Well, in this case it is....I was shock! Stone wasn't that nice.
 
Sorry, I forgot to attach the pic. I am now working on it, I'm having a hard time uploading the file. I will get it posted as soon as I can.
 
Sadly, it's tough to have any place carry many radiants at once. Sorry you didn't have a great expereince finding them, but they are tough!!

Both of the stones are good cuts, but the DCD stone may be a much squarer stone. The GOG stone is a bit larger (and more rectangular), so it's a judgement call for you. Also, the setting should fit the stone, but usually people choose the stone and THEN the setting...

Hope it works out, and call both vendors and see if they can give you Sarins for both of them, that way you can determine the crown heights and such...
 
They are having problems with the server....I'll try again later. Back to work!
 
donny-




I totally feel your pain in search of a nice radiant cut . I've been looking for one for many months and i think i may have more weeks/months to go. But i'm not giving up on radiant, because i know in the end it would be worth it. I prefer the rectangular, but now i realized you will have more brilliance when the stone is more square. So now i'm less hung up on the L/W ratio.




Good luck in your search.... /idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif
 
I still can't upload
angryfire.gif
. I don't know if they support this file or not. Can I email this to someone and could they try to post it for me? I really want ya'll to see this ring. That way you could tell me if a 1.24 ratio radiant would still look nice on it.
 
Just fyi- a 1:1.24 ratio is very rectangular. Check out gemappraisers there is a toy- you can plug in the #s and see the shape.

ALl I have to say is wowie wowie wowie. Holy cow- the DCD picture is amazing. That is SUCH a clean si1. If I was going by #s only, I would not be impresses. Yes! You definitely have to see a fancy cut! That is beautiful! And the GOG stone looks good too but much more rectangular! Tough call...
 
Thanks Moremoremore! I think I'm going to past on the 1.24 ratio. It's too rectangular for me. Now, I want to compare the DCD with the one I've just looked at. I'm sorry to be a pain in the behind! I just want to make the right move. Here are the info:


Report GIA
Report No. Sample Report
Shape Radiant
Carat Weight 1.50
Measurements
Length-to-Width 6.39 x 6.22 x 4.32
Proportions
Depth 69.5
Table 68
Girdle TN-M
Culet NON
Polish VG
Symmetry VG
Clarity Grade SI1
Color Grade F
Fluorescence NON
 
This one has a L/W ratio - 1.03


It's a very square radiant cut. Just by numbers... it looks pretty good.




Shape Radiant
Carat Weight 1.50
Measurements
Length-to-Width 6.39 x 6.22 x 4.32
Proportions
Depth 69.5
Table 68
Girdle TN-M
Culet NON
Polish VG
Symmetry VG
Clarity Grade SI1
Color Grade F
Fluorescence NON
 
posting for donny . . .

donny.JPG
 
Very Pretty! Yep looks like it needs a square radiant!
 
Ok! It's now down to these 2 stones (G si-1 or F si-1). If ya'll had to choose one, which one would you choose and why. Just pretend you're in my shoes. This is final, I am going to make my decision based on everyone's opinion. So, please be honest. My stone is in your hands. Here are the specs...Thanks for all your help!!
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Stone 1

Report GIA
Report No. Sample Report
Shape Radiant
Carat Weight 1.50
Measurements
Length-to-Width 6.39 x 6.22 x 4.32
Proportions
Depth 69.5
Table 68
Girdle TN-M
Culet NON
Polish VG
Symmetry VG
Clarity Grade SI1
Color Grade F
Fluorescence NON


Stone 2

Shape: Signature Radiant
Laboratory: GIA
Carat Weight: 1.42
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Measurements: 6.56x6.26x4.25
Depth: 67.9%
Table: 69%
Polish: VG
Symmetry: GD
Culet: None
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Fluorescence: None
Culet: None
 
This seems to be a bit of a dead heat, as they are both quite lovely. But then again, I ALWAYS suggest seeing the stone in person so that you can make a decision. It would be best to see them both together, but maybe you can have them both sent to the same appraiser and have them checked out there?

Donny, the main differences between the two is:

1. The 1.5 is an F and the 1.42 is a G in color (one grade lower)

2. The 1.5 has a L/W ratio of 1.02 and the 1.4 has a L/W ratio of 1.04 (which is SLIGHTLY more rectangular)

3. The 1.4 has 41.065mm of table area, compared to the 39.745 of the 1.5. Meaning the 1.4 may actually look a wee bit bigger.

4. The symmetry on the 1.5 is "Very Good" versus the 1.4 which is only "Good"

I am not sure what the price is on both, but usually a 1.5ct stone is sold at a slightly greater premium, due to the fact that it is actually at that magic number 1.5...Same things go for 1.0cts, 2.0cts, etc... a 1.4 may represent a good value, but I don't know the prices between the two, so that's dependant of the actual vendor and any discounts they offer.

Either way, good luck and definately GO SEE THE STONES!!! Order the DCD, I know they offer a preliminary view with an authorized appraiser in your area... GOOD LUCK!!!
 
Nicrez,

The 1.4 is $7000 and the 1.5 is $7473. Which one would you recommend me seeing first? I don't think it's possible to see them together.
 
Well, honestly, I would suggest seeing the one that is more square, being the 1.5. It may end up being the one you like the most, and for the price seems pretty good to get an F color 1.5ct stone!

Like I said, if possible, see if you can have them BOTH checked out by an appraiser (and time them both to be there), and see if the jeweler will let the sale be contingent on the appraiser's verification.

In the Diamond District in NYC many even TELL customers that is how they work. Sale contingent on Appraiser. Ask, if the one is in the store and at the same time try to order the other one to the SAME apparaiser. he could probably give you a better run-down on which stone is a better buy...
 
I think you are moving in the right direction by going down on clarity a bit and going up on color. Personally, I wouldn't go K color unless that is the best you could fit in your budget, and in that case I wouldn't go with VVS clarity.
 
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