Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and price)

[morgin]

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2136377191&go=Look+Up&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

1.22ct
3x Excellent
VS1
Color: I (gemologist commented that it's probably closer to H than J in colour. When I looked in person I compared to a few other I stones and it did appear ever so slightly whiter, athough I may have been perceiving it due to the comment)

Depth: 61.6%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavillion Angle: 41.2°
Pavillion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%

Price I'm being quoted is ~$9800. I've seen it in person, looked eye clean and could barely see a few things under loupe, looked great under hearts&arrows viewer, no idealscope. Scores a 3 on HCA.

My gut is I could find something nicer for the price, although I'd generally be happy with this if it was about $1000 less.

Thoughts?

 

[JulieN]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

2000 less? http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-198098

You could probably get something even cheaper if you looked around, I found this in 1 minute.

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

2000 less? http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-198098

You could probably get something even cheaper if you looked around, I found this in 1 minute.

I should calculate the US price .. I think our dollars are closer but this is in CAD with tax included. so, minus a few hundred maybe in conversion and 450 or so in taxes. I think maybe say $9000.

Difference is that it's local to me.

What's involved in insuring a diamond that you buy online? Like, if I buy something online I would need to get insurance right away before it goes to the setting person, correct?

 

[heididdl]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

JulieN good pick I was going to show her that one as well

 

[JulieN]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

In the very rare chance that anything happens to a round during setting, it is likely a tiny chip that can be polished out, probably wouldn't even use insurance for it, but often your jeweler has their own insurance. Ask.

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

The only thing with that one is medium fluor which I'd like to stay away from (not sure how gf would feel about that). Not knowing how much fluor impacts price, not sure how much of a premium this particular local stone is over a comparable internet stone.

Is 3 a "high" HCA score for a GIA stone?

Also, what's the deal with appraisals. This particular stone had like a $19,500 appraisal included with it. Who uses that number?

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

In the very rare chance that anything happens to a round during setting, it is likely a tiny chip that can be polished out, probably wouldn't even use insurance for it, but often your jeweler has their own insurance. Ask.

Will do!

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Thanks for the replies - I posted because I was feeling a bit "this price seems a bit high for this stone" and needed some reassurance I'm not off my rocker. I think it is. Online shopping it is, hard to justify a 2grand price premium.

 

[morgin]

Let's shop online.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10450/

This I think is right up the wheelhouse - any thoughts on this?

 

[JulieN]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

It has a lifetime guarantee from Good Old Gold, so it should be a stunner.

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Any thoughts on the ASET?

Also, I recall being told the HCA calculator should not be used to calculate AGA stones, is that true? This one scores higher than a 3.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Pavilion is rather on the deep side, but as I said, if it is good enough for their lifetime guarantee, it should be a stunner, but what is the price? GOG will shoot a video of it next to some other H&A if you like.

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

After PS discount but including shipping it comes in around $1000 less than the initial stone I posted.

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Ok I've had a few days to think about this and have created a kind of pros/cons list in my head of what I should do.

My (new) local setting designer guy called to ask if I wanted him to hold the stone or send it back to his gemologist - I asked him for another day to think it over.

Local stone is the GIA Triple Excellent I posted above. HCA score of 3. I have seen it in person, and it is quite gorgeous to my unskilled eye. I was able to review it through I loupe and a hearts&arrows viewer. H&A are clear and symmetrical and look a lot like the good quality H&A images I see posted here. Downside is no idealscope or aset image available to review. Based on the HCA score of 3 (which is "Very Good" across the board) and the specs that resulted in that, I compared to similarly proportioned stones at JA that also score in the 2.8-3.2 range, and it seems some have minor white ring in the idealscope and some don't. I couldn't find any that were "awful" looking with really bad light bleed. So my gut feeling is that this is probably a really nice stone, not "top end" in the sense it probably wouldnt qualify for whiteflash a cut above or anything like that, but really nice. (conversely, some GoG and JA stones seem to qualify for the "top end" category of stones with HCA score above 2.) I chatted with them about price and they are willing to do the same wire discounts that online vendors provide to get the cost down a bit.

I have found an online stone at WF (don't want to post link as I don't have it reserved yet) that is 1.2ish ct, VS2, I, A Cut Above. The difference between the local stone I linked above is that local stone is VS1, whereas this is Vs2. However, it also has ASET and idealscope that are pretty much on par with the best WF has to offer. It scores a 1.8 HCA, and is AGS vs GIA. Price will work out to be about the same after currency conversion and PS discount.

So, here's my dilemma. (New) local guy I found has actually been really amazing to work with (I had found one previously that was a bit arrogant, but this guy is not). He totally gets the setting I want to do, showed me a bunch of his design ideas he sketched out based on our convos, and I can see his settings in his studio and they are gorgeous. He was pretty excited about this GIA stone and thinks it is excellent and one of the better ones he has gotten the prospect of working with in the last few months. I know PS'ers live in a pretty particular world though, which I like, so what to him is excellent might only qualify as 8/10 on here. If I were to tell him I don't trust the stone without seeing an idealscope or aset and am going to bring in a stone I sourced myself, I feel he might take it a bit personally that I don't trust him or something and that could impact his desire to want to knock the setting out of the park. Maybe it won't and I'm being paranoid, but I get the sense these guys really do believe in what they do and I guess if they feel that they've checked a stone and love it and want to recommend it, and I loved it in person, that should be enough.

The pros and cons of the WF are that while it scores really well (the under 2 seems to be recommended?) I've never actually seen one of these "A cut above" stones in person. At that size, and to an untrained eye who will never be looking at diamonds again this closely, am I going to notice a significant difference compared to the GIA stone? I guess the answer is "it depends". GoG knowledge materials commented that in some of their studies, the general public often had a preference for stones that werent the ones scored as the most ideal of the ideal. I could always send it back if for whatever reason I didn't like it, but I do have to consider that I would be paying GST with the import and I don't know if that gets refunded with an international return, so it could be an expensive "check over".

So, with all that said, is there a significant risk that without an idealscope image, the stone I listed above that is 3x excellent from GIA and scores a 3 HCA would be so much worse than the WF stone to warrant choosing the WF over it 10 times out of 10 regardless of any competing factors as long as I can't get an idealscope? Is there any comfort knowing it has an excellent H&A pattern, or does that mean little for cut?

What would YOU do if you were me?

 

[JulieN]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

buy an Ideal Scope? Or at least put it on a colored background to check?

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

I won't have time to have an idealscope shipped out for this particular stone I don't think. I suppose I could tell him to release it and then have it brought back once I get it, but no guarantees it would be available.

In terms of the coloured background though, would you just use a red piece of paper and look at the stone (which direction?)

 

[JulieN]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

look at it through the table.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

make sure that your local guy has a return policy in place, so if you change your mind for whatever reason it can go back. The only thing that I would say is that since you are an admitted novice, I would feel comfort in purchasing an ACA or HA from GOG, knowing that all the light performance tests had been done , this would offer me a lot of peace. However in the end your eyes will be the judge and if you love the local stone, then that may be good enough.

 

[Anjaani3]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Hi Morgin,

Just thought I'd add my two cents. I completely understand your dilemma because i've been shopping for a diamond for what feels like forever (more like 6-7 months) and every time I think I've found something beautiful, I learn something new about it that makes it less attractive or another potential diamond comes up that confuses me even further on the decision.

I think what you need to ask yourself is, if you decide to go with the local jeweler, will you always wonder "what if" about the other stone? Some people are perfectly content once they make a decision and don't doubt it, while others will always wonder if they could have compared the two or if the other was more "bang" for their buck. I've learned that i'm the latter. In this situation, knowing the reputation that ACA's have, I'd always wonder if it could outshine what I had seen at the local jeweler. But if it's not worth the return fees to check it out and you feel perfectly content with the diamond offered locally, go for it. This is about what makes YOU happy and what satisfies YOU. We analyze the minor details of so many diamonds here but at the end of the day, there are many diamonds that may not be perfect, but are still absolutely stunning.

One thing I do want to mention though: I know you've developed a relationship with the jeweler and I'm sure he's a great guy but he is a sales guy at the end of the day. He wants to move his sale. I point this out only because I met a few jewelers when I first started out my search and they were all nice genuine people but some of them tried to "strongly encourage" diamonds on me that I later learned had some terrible specs. For example, when I didn't know any better, a jeweler almost convinced me to buy a round diamond that had a 65.4% depth. He swore by it's beauty and when I saw it, it looked gorgeous to my untrained eye. When i learned that it was too deep and mentioned it to him, he was caught off guard and started making excuses for why he was recommending it. This was a reputable jeweler in a diamond district with EXCELLENT reviews. I'm really not saying your jeweler is trying to trick you into buying a bad diamond, nor do I think the specs of the stone are a problem, i'm just trying to point out that sometimes the jeweler may be offering you a GREAT stone for your budget, but not always the BEST stone possible.

Sorry for the mini ramble but I hope this encourages you to assess what you feel more comfortable with as the end result. Another option might be to ask your jeweler if he has a return policy and if he does, you can order the WF diamond and compare the two side by side. You would have to block a little money in the meantime but seeing them together could make the decision for you and satisfy any regrets that may arise later. Again, I'm a bit more particular about these things than most so you may not even feel the urge to assess both.

Btw, Does WF offer any videos or additional pictures of the diamond so you can figure out if you like ACA look?

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, especially Anjaani3 - I will reply tou your post below.

Hi Morgin,

Just thought I'd add my two cents. I completely understand your dilemma because i've been shopping for a diamond for what feels like forever (more like 6-7 months) and every time I think I've found something beautiful, I learn something new about it that makes it less attractive or another potential diamond comes up that confuses me even further on the decision.

I think what you need to ask yourself is, if you decide to go with the local jeweler, will you always wonder "what if" about the other stone? Some people are perfectly content once they make a decision and don't doubt it, while others will always wonder if they could have compared the two or if the other was more "bang" for their buck. I've learned that i'm the latter. In this situation, knowing the reputation that ACA's have, I'd always wonder if it could outshine what I had seen at the local jeweler. But if it's not worth the return fees to check it out and you feel perfectly content with the diamond offered locally, go for it. This is about what makes YOU happy and what satisfies YOU. We analyze the minor details of so many diamonds here but at the end of the day, there are many diamonds that may not be perfect, but are still absolutely stunning.

I am this person too, and I think this is probably all the realization I need. This local stone could turn out to have a really solid idealscope and be great value for a quality diamond, but at the end of the day I'll probably always feel like it was selected for me instead of me picking it, and given how much time I've invested into this process to learn, that will likely bug me. So I think that's my answer right there.

One thing I do want to mention though: I know you've developed a relationship with the jeweler and I'm sure he's a great guy but he is a sales guy at the end of the day. He wants to move his sale. I point this out only because I met a few jewelers when I first started out my search and they were all nice genuine people but some of them tried to "strongly encourage" diamonds on me that I later learned had some terrible specs. For example, when I didn't know any better, a jeweler almost convinced me to buy a round diamond that had a 65.4% depth. He swore by it's beauty and when I saw it, it looked gorgeous to my untrained eye. When i learned that it was too deep and mentioned it to him, he was caught off guard and started making excuses for why he was recommending it. This was a reputable jeweler in a diamond district with EXCELLENT reviews. I'm really not saying your jeweler is trying to trick you into buying a bad diamond, nor do I think the specs of the stone are a problem, i'm just trying to point out that sometimes the jeweler may be offering you a GREAT stone for your budget, but not always the BEST stone possible.

Sorry for the mini ramble but I hope this encourages you to assess what you feel more comfortable with as the end result. Another option might be to ask your jeweler if he has a return policy and if he does, you can order the WF diamond and compare the two side by side. You would have to block a little money in the meantime but seeing them together could make the decision for you and satisfy any regrets that may arise later. Again, I'm a bit more particular about these things than most so you may not even feel the urge to assess both.

There is not really a return option available. He had the stone brought in for me to look at, but it's not "his stone" persay (he's not really like a traditional jewellery store, he's just a metal artist who does rings and has a relationship with a gemologist for customers who don't have their own stones). If I liked it, he would buy it and immediately get to work on the setting and I would pay for the completed piece when it's done. I could buy it and ask him to delay starting the setting and see about a return, but I try to avoid treating purchases as buy and try so I'd like to get this right the first time.

Again, thanks for the response. I think WF can get me images and video of a stone if I like it.

Do some people not like how ACA looks? I honestly have zero preference for some of the things others talk about (fire vs. brilliance, etc) and I doubt my gf knows the difference. I just assumed if I go to the ACA or BG Signature or GOG Superior or whatever they call it, or any of the other top tiers of stones, it eliminates a lot of the wiggle room that tools like the HCA were developed to deal with. Someone tell me if I'm incorrect in that assumption!

 

[Anjaani3]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

It sounds like you're feeling similar to how I would and at the end of the day, knowing another brilliant diamond is out there would really bother you if you didn't give it a fair chance. I've been on this forum for about 6-7 months now and feel like I've learned SO much which is sometimes good and bad... good because I like to be well informed and make an educated decision, but bad because I find flaws in everything and nothing feels like perfection within my budget, so this gets harder and harder.

I'm no expert but my understanding is that ACA's are such a brilliant cut that you really can't lose with that purchase. It'll definitely be as brilliant as the diamond you've seen, if not more. That's a pretty sound investment and in this forum I've always seen people absolutely gaga over ACA's. That being said, I know you don't want to offend your jeweler, is it maybe possible to make an excuse that might not rub him the wrong way? I hate to recommend you stretch the truth but maybe if you mentioned that your fiancé has mentioned to you SHE thought ACA's were beautiful or had a preference for it and you happened to find one in your range -- which was why you decided to go that route since this is really about pleasing her. I'm just thinking maybe he would understand that better than you just bringing in another diamond that you say you trust more. Or you can tell him the truth and hope that he's the stand-up guy you believe he is that would still do some great work on your setting.

Also, it may not hurt to ask him about the return policy if you're considering that. Although he doesn't source the diamonds himself, many jewelers have agreements with the cutters re: return policies, so he may actually have something to offer.

I don't want to sway your decision because it's really about what makes you comfy and I'm really no expert and still learning about all of this too...but I truly think that if you're anything like me, you'll find a sense of satisfaction and sigh of relief every time you see the beautiful brilliance and fire of the ACA. You cant spend all this time learning and searching and not get the best quality you're able to afford.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

If you want to stick with your local guy, ask him to call in another stone with the specs below. This should get you to a HCA score of under 2. You can then re-evaluate and maybe even have time to grab an idealscope. Don't feel like you have to buy that stone.

Depth: 60% - 62%
Table: 54% - 57%
Crown Angle: 34 - 35
Pavilion Angle: 40.5 - 40.9

In general, I am willing to make some compromises on cut (excellent versus exceptional) if it means significant cost savings or a greater size increase. In your case, I don't think you are getting anything about the diamond in return - you are paying more for lower cut quality. The only thing you are getting is keeping your vendor happy which I really don't think should be a factor here. As a professional (and not a diamond vendor), he really shouldn't let your decision to buy a diamond from him or not affect the setting he is making for you.

I am going to throw a wild idea out here. Would you consider this diamond?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-06-round-brilliant-t187037.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-06-round-brilliant-t187037.html[/URL]

 

[morgin]

Re: Quick GIA cert spec check (feelings on HCA score and pri

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I ended up asking him to send it back. Their pricing wasn't competitive enough given the unknowns with the diamond and the fact I was even contemplating going with something to make someone else happy instead of finding what was right for me is a pretty big "hey wait what are you doing" realization. So thanks!!

Charmy - unfortunately the colour and size on that are both outside my preference for this ring. My gf is a bit modest I guess and probably wouldn't like something that big for everyday wear, and I am colour sensitive to K