Question

[kenny]

My SO and I are staying with his familia for a few days.
They are the most wonderful people!!!

We just had a fabulous T-Day turkey feast.

One thing . . . in their family they are in no hurry to refrigerate the leftovers.
Even the turkey sits out on the the kitchen counter for 7+ hours before anyone bothers packing it up and refrigerating it.
I've noticed this before on other visits.

I'm super careful about getting cooked meat into the refrig as soon as it reaches room temp to discourage bacteria build up.

I haven't said anything.
I'm a guest.
But this turkey will be served over the next few days and my SO and I will be eating it.

Problemo? or No problemo?
Would you say something?
Am I just neurotic?

 

[missy]

Kenny, that's a good question. The experts say to refrigerate all meat/turkey etc within 2 hours of being out in room temperature for that very reason. My dh says that in all his years he has never gotten sick from leaving turkey out for a few more hours than that. However, just because he hasn't doesn't mean it isn't a problem and 7 hours is very long. I always make sure to put food in the fridge within a couple of hours because I am risk adverse. But you are a guest so not sure what kind of relationship you have with them. With my family I would just say hey, let's put the food away so we don't risk getting sick from eating leftovers. But as you pointed out you are a guest and probably don't have that type of relationship with them. With my MIL I wouldn't say a word but I wouldn't eat the leftovers if that was the case. Not sure what the right thing is to do here because people take constructive advice differently.

Good luck and most likely you will be fine if you eat the leftovers-just make sure to nuke it very well and all should be OK!

 

[audball]

Maybe you could just offer to help get the kitchen cleaned up within your timeframe of comfort? Or even offer that you and your SO do it since they hosted?

 

[CharmedOne]

I'm with Audball, I'd offer to clean up since they so graciously cooked, so now it's their turn to take a break and relax. I would do that at my Inlaws. Because if not, the food would sit out all night and they still would eat it. My Inlaws have no concept of healthy eating habits at all.

 

[sonnyjane]

Well if you must eat the leftovers to seem polite, nuke the crap out of them!

 

[House Cat]

If bacteria grows in the food, reheating doesn't always cure the issue. These bacteria are living beings and they produce waste. Although you can kill the bacteria with heat, you can not eliminate their waste with heat. Their waste can make you sick as well.


FWIW, I don't think you are neurotic at all. If your stomach is sensitive to food that has been left out, it isn't worth making yourself sick over social protocol.

 

[Enerchi]

Sticky situation for sure. I'm also a nut about food safety, so i like the offer to clean up as a good ruse to get the bird refrigerated. Would SO be on board w that? If you can't get it in the fridge sooner than later, I agree w sonnyjane to nuke the crap out of the leftovers if you must eat turkey again!

Good luck, Kenny!

 

[iLander]

If the turkey has been cooked to 160 degrees internally, it's probably fine. If it was a 350 degree oven, it probably killed all the salmonella. If it was one of those 6 hour, 200 degree deals, it is probably not so good.

There is bacteria everywhere, and it's constant. I read a study in which people washed their faces with super cleansers and every bacteria bit was destroyed (measured scientifically). Within 8 minutes, every bit of bacteria was back, because it reproduced from one tiny smidge that was left. Your immune system is really the only defense. Do you take a lot of vitamins? With folic acid and B'sand C's? That's the key.

If you want to worry about foods that will make you sick, it's the potatoes and salad that will get you. Salad has a tremendous capacity for germs, and the starch in potatoes is a bacteria suburb. Potato salad has a bad reputation, but in reality it's not the mayo, it's the starch.

My DD's science class tested all kinds of cleansers and the only thing that really killed anything was bleach. Strong alcohol was a close second.

So, you know what you have to do:

Tequila with your turkey sandwiches.

 

[JewelFreak]

7 hours sitting out isn't optimal but unless you're immune-compromised or otherwise unhealthy, you are not gonna get sick from a thoroughly cooked turkey under those conditions. We absorb unnecessary fears, imo, from ads for cleaning products & "experts" who make a living thinking up problems to which they can offer solutions. A raw or undercooked turkey out for 7 hrs is another story, but what Kenny described won't hurt a healthy adult. Probably will be kind of dry & unappetizing, though.

As iLander says, bacteria are everywhere, absolutely everywhere. Our immune systems have evolved to protect us from the vast majority of them. Some are even beneficial to us.

One of the microbiologists at the scientific company where I worked told me about a study done on e-coli that found it in every place they tested -- store door handles, restaurant tables, window frames, almost everything we touch. It is very rarely present in enough quantity to get past our immunities.

Surveys constantly show that kids growing up on farms are much less prone to illnesses than others. Doctors & biologists say the increased usage of anti-bacterial cleaners & over-protection of kids from anywhere they might possibly catch a germ has led to more sickness as they fail to develop resistances.

If it bothers you, good advice to offer to clean up & pack stuff away. But there's no need for fear in the case you mentioned.

--- Laurie

 

[TC1987]

They might as well throw it out as leave it at room temperature for that long. Unbelievable!

Here's the lowdown from my mother, the home economist and dietitian, and confirmed by the microbiology class that I took:

Food can sit out no longer than 3 hrs at room temp before it must be refrigerated (or frozen.)
Max for keeping leftover turkey in the fridge is 2-3 days.
Max for keeping frozen turkey in the freezer is 2 months.

The reason is that cooking doesn't destroy all bacteria. Neither does freezing. When you raise the food's temp to oven temperature range, or you reduce it to freezer / refrigerator temperatures, you retard the growth of bacteria. But you never kill all the bacteria.

 

[justginger]

This would make me uncomfortable. My DH works in an enteric lab, so I know the sort of stuff that these things result in! I would most certainly offer to clean up in exchange for the free, effortless meal. Then get that thing in the fridge!

 

[Haven]

I wouldn't eat turkey leftovers that sat our for that long. This is one of those cases where protecting your own health trumps concerns about being polite, IMO.

However, if I were in your situation I would have jumped up and cleaned everything up in the first place. Different families have different ways of doing this, but in my family the guests help the host do the cleaning. DH's family just sits around like lumps and watches the hosts clean everything up for them, which my family finds very rude. I'm not sure if your SO's family would be offended if you helped clean, but if not, then maybe consider helping out next time, if only for your own piece of mind.

I know everyone on PS has different backgrounds and opinions, but this is one of those situations where I wouldn't really trust people on a forum saying "Hey, eat it! No biggie!" without finding some solid evidence that it's true.

I found this info on the USDA website:
---------------------
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/help/faqs_hotline_preparation/index.asp#6
Is it safe to eat leftover food that was left out on the counter to cool at dinnertime, then forgotten until morning? Will additional cooking kill the bacteria that may have grown?
No. Bacteria exist everywhere in nature. They are in the soil, air, water, and the foods we eat. When they have nutrients (food), moisture, and favorable temperatures, they grow rapidly, increasing in numbers to the point where some types of bacteria can cause illness. Bacteria grow most rapidly in the range of temperatures between 40 and 140 °F, some doubling in number in as little as 20 minutes. Some types will produce toxins that are not destroyed by cooking.

Pathogenic bacteria do not generally affect the taste, smell, or appearance of a food. In other words, one cannot tell that a food has been mishandled or is dangerous to eat. For example, food that has been left too long on the counter may be dangerous to eat, but could smell and look fine. If a food has been left in the "Danger Zone" – between 40 and 140 °F – for more than 2 hours, discard it, even though it may look and smell good. Never taste a food to see if it is spoiled.
(Sources: Keeping Food Safe During an Emergency; Fighting BAC!® by Chilling Out; Refrigeration and Food Safety.)
---------------------

 

[partgypsy]

My SO and I are staying with his familia for a few days.
They are the most wonderful people!!!

We just had a fabulous T-Day turkey feast.

One thing . . . in their family they are in no hurry to refrigerate the leftovers.
Even the turkey sits out on the the kitchen counter for 7+ hours before anyone bothers packing it up and refrigerating it.
I've noticed this before on other visits.

I'm super careful about getting cooked meat into the refrig as soon as it reaches room temp to discourage bacteria build up.

I haven't said anything.
I'm a guest.
But this turkey will be served over the next few days and my SO and I will be eating it.

Problemo? or No problemo?
Would you say something?
Am I just neurotic?

just don't eat any cold turkey sandwiches. Nuke the heck out of it if/when you do eat the leftovers.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Kenny,

I have a story to tell about this very thing. I stayed with a friend in Europe. She did most of the cooking and I was sent to do some of the shopping. One evening she cooked pork chops and they were left out, even though I suggested we put them in the fridge. The following day she planned on using the porkk chops for dinner that nite. Now, my dilema was the same as yours. It really was hard, but i told her i wouldn't eat the pork chops as they were left out too long, and I didn't want to get sick. nShe laughed and thought I was quite silly, but let me eat something else.

My friend is a teacher. The following morning she goes off to school and a few hours later she is helped home, violently ill. She had a high temperature and was vomiting. We called the doctor and he said she had food poisoning. She was very sick and recuperated slowly. I did not get sick, thank goodness. She learned her lesson and was I happy I had the nerve to say I wouldn't eat the chops.
She was very sick.

Speak up. They are still wonderful people, although they may have been lucky all these yrs, but you shouldn't be afraid to say something. They, in turn will just laugh at you. Volunteer to put it away, but speak up. Its not a big deal. You're not going to create a scene.

Annette
They may learn something from you. (thats not about diamonds.)

 

[JewelFreak]

Everybody's different but I can't get with all the fear. Never has a population been so afraid of so many things in normal daily life -- yet never has this poor old planet groaned as it does under the weight of so many human beings, who despite all the risks they take by breathing, eating, sleeping, waking, live longer & longer. I have a neighbor who won't eat any leftovers, ever, for fear of germs (her kitchen is always spotless). A waste of food & way overreaction to my mind. I would only hesitate to eat a well-cooked turkey left out 7 hrs in a clean kitchen because it would be dry & tasteless. The only time I had food poisoning was a biggy -- from salad dressing at the Hard Rock Cafe in London, where I ended up in hospital in pretty scary shape. I'm sorry, but I simply refuse to be afraid of a turkey sandwich. To each his own.

--- Laurie

 

[vc10um]

I'm generally on Laurie's side of things, but in your case, Kenny, I'd say that 7 hours is a ridiculously long time and I'd be politely declining the turkey over the next few days. And in the future, I'd do just as the others have suggested: offer to clean up for the hosts, or assist them if they insist on taking care of it, to ensure everything is handled properly.

 

[Haven]

Everybody's different but I can't get with all the fear. Never has a population been so afraid of so many things in normal daily life -- yet never has this poor old planet groaned as it does under the weight of so many human beings, who despite all the risks they take by breathing, eating, sleeping, waking, live longer & longer. I have a neighbor who won't eat any leftovers, ever, for fear of germs (her kitchen is always spotless). A waste of food & way overreaction to my mind. I would only hesitate to eat a well-cooked turkey left out 7 hrs in a clean kitchen because it would be dry & tasteless. The only time I had food poisoning was a biggy -- from salad dressing at the Hard Rock Cafe in London, where I ended up in hospital in pretty scary shape. I'm sorry, but I simply refuse to be afraid of a turkey sandwich. To each his own.

--- Laurie

I understand what you're saying about living in fear in general, and I agree with you. But turkey sitting out for seven hours? This doesn't seem like a case of living in fear to me, it seems like plain old common sense.

I hate wasting food as well, but we avoid that by only making what we really need. The family didn't take care of the food when they left it sitting out for seven hours, IMO that was when it went to waste, not when Kenny chooses to abstain from eating it as leftovers.

But hey, to each his own. I agree with that as well. You want to eat turkey that sat out for seven hours? Don't let me stop you!

 

[kenny]

Thanks all.
I appreciate all the help.

Gladly, everyone here is healthy, no immune-compromized people.
We arrived very late, about 4 hours after the food was cooked.
Everyone had eaten already, but when I found out when the turkey was done I calculated the 7 hours in my head.
Fortunately I ain't croaked yet and feel fine. :dead:

I'm sure it was cooked up to temp because it is clearly well cooked.
I'll make sure leftovers I eat is cooked till it's HOT!

This is an interesting topic.
My SO is VERY sensitive to me lecturing to his family, or him, since they are poor uneducated Mexican immigrants.
It is very very sensitive for me to talk about MAANY subjects.
Just the facts.
Like just now someone used a metal fork to get the toast out of the toaster without unplugging the toaster.
I have to just shut up and accept people just vary in home safety stuff too.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

That would bother me but I wouldn't say anything. I'd probably just not eat any turkey for the next few days (or watch everyone else first to make sure they don't get sick before eating any!).

ETA - I just read your follow-up. In a situation like that, I'd probably pack extra food for myself as snack food just in case it seems the food may not be properly tended to! I usually do that anyway. If we're going on a weekend visit somewhere, I bring a flat of water and a ton of energy bars & misc., to have on-hand. I would not eat turkey left out for 7 hours!!!

 

[Enerchi]

Like just now someone used a metal fork to get the toast out of the toaster without unplugging the toaster.
I have to just shut up and accept people just vary in home safety stuff too.

Oh NO!!! Kenny - have 911 on speed dial, while you are staying there - sounds like a risky vacay! Stay safe!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Like just now someone used a metal fork to get the toast out of the toaster without unplugging the toaster.
I have to just shut up and accept people just vary in home safety stuff too.

Oh NO!!! Kenny - have 911 on speed dial, while you are staying there - sounds like a risky vacay! Stay safe!

hahaha And bring a fire extinquisher, too!

 

[sonnyjane]

My husband doesn't refrigerate his turkey or ham sandwiches between when he makes them in the morning and when he eats them for lunch at work. I find this very gross but he insists he was "brought up that way". Nothing I can do other than choose not to do it myself!

I find that I feel very out of place when I visit my in-laws. They view me as a "city-slicker" whereas they are "blue-collared folks". My mom is a teacher and my dad is an unemployed construction worker so I'm not sure how they formed that opinion of me other than the fact I went to college in a large city. I just keep my mouth shut around them lol.

 

[justginger]

Everybody's different but I can't get with all the fear. Never has a population been so afraid of so many things in normal daily life -- yet never has this poor old planet groaned as it does under the weight of so many human beings, who despite all the risks they take by breathing, eating, sleeping, waking, live longer & longer. I have a neighbor who won't eat any leftovers, ever, for fear of germs (her kitchen is always spotless). A waste of food & way overreaction to my mind. I would only hesitate to eat a well-cooked turkey left out 7 hrs in a clean kitchen because it would be dry & tasteless. The only time I had food poisoning was a biggy -- from salad dressing at the Hard Rock Cafe in London, where I ended up in hospital in pretty scary shape. I'm sorry, but I simply refuse to be afraid of a turkey sandwich. To each his own.

--- Laurie

I understand what you're saying about living in fear in general, and I agree with you. But turkey sitting out for seven hours? This doesn't seem like a case of living in fear to me, it seems like plain old common sense.

I hate wasting food as well, but we avoid that by only making what we really need. The family didn't take care of the food when they left it sitting out for seven hours, IMO that was when it went to waste, not when Kenny chooses to abstain from eating it as leftovers.

But hey, to each his own. I agree with that as well. You want to eat turkey that sat out for seven hours? Don't let me stop you!

Agreed, Haven. Working in microbiology myself, and as I said DH actually deals with...ahem, samples...all day from people who thought that their food would be ok, despite professional recommendation that it will not be, I do not know a SINGLE colleague who would choose to knowingly eat that food. It has nothing to do with fear, and everything to do with knowledge. We KNOW it's a risk, and we normally scoff at the antibiotic craze. We own no "kills 99.9% of germs" products, as we have no interest in selecting for the atrocious strains of resistant Escherichia that would remain. We avoid prescriptions to some lengths, bathing with salt or tea tree oil water instead. We still wash our hands with soap and water. I kiss my dogs smack on the mouth! No germaphobe here. But unrefrigerated food? Unless simultaneous violent pooping and puking is no big deal to you, simply not worth t.

 

[kenny]

My husband doesn't refrigerate his turkey or ham sandwiches between when he makes them in the morning and when he eats them for lunch at work. I find this very gross but he insists he was "brought up that way". Nothing I can do other than choose not to do it myself!

I find that I feel very out of place when I visit my in-laws. They view me as a "city-slicker" whereas they are "blue-collared folks". My mom is a teacher and my dad is an unemployed construction worker so I'm not sure how they formed that opinion of me other than the fact I went to college in a large city. I just keep my mouth shut around them lol.

Yes, this.

It is very much a "we just weren't raised that way", suspicion of the white, educated, city slicker thing.

Anti-knowledge is just how some people are.
I'm not that way, but I am guest in their house and they did not hire me for lectures on how to live.

Again these are the most loving people I've ever known.
They will give you the shirt off their backs.

This experience is good for me.

 

[Enerchi]

Kenny, you sound like the ideal SIL - better to maintain peace and harmony than rock the boat - big ((HUGS)) to you and your SO for visiting family on Thanksgiving! I hope you enjoy the rest of the stay

But as for Justginger's

But unrefrigerated food? Unless simultaneous violent pooping and puking is no big deal to you, simply not worth it.

I have to say, working in public health, I'm all over this! Just stay away from any further turkey....

 

[purplesparklies]

Ugh! Tough position for you. I'd focus on the sides and avoid the bird even though I love me some leftover turkey!

 

[iLander]

When my husband was in college, he had 5 Taiwanese roommates. Yup. Five.

They used to cook things and just leave them on the stove for days. Everybody ate what they wanted, no one got sick. DH was grossed out, so he ate the first day, then ate out after that. Upside; he knows the best Chinese restaurants in NYC. The kind where they don't have an English menu, and everyone turns to look when a white guy walks in. But I digress . . .

Maybe it's just Americans. We live in a culture where the TV is always telling us our breath is bad, our BO stinks, we're going to die any minute now if we don't take this or that prescription. Or teeth aren't white enough, a sunburn is deadly (but don't forget your vitamin D tablets!), our laundry isn't white enough, even our pets have to have gourmet food. Oh, and don't forget all those pesky emotions; we have a host of corporate-sponsored pills for that too.

We're bombarded with messages that say we should worry. About. Every. Damn. Thing.

 

[Haven]

My husband doesn't refrigerate his turkey or ham sandwiches between when he makes them in the morning and when he eats them for lunch at work. I find this very gross but he insists he was "brought up that way". Nothing I can do other than choose not to do it myself!

I find that I feel very out of place when I visit my in-laws. They view me as a "city-slicker" whereas they are "blue-collared folks". My mom is a teacher and my dad is an unemployed construction worker so I'm not sure how they formed that opinion of me other than the fact I went to college in a large city. I just keep my mouth shut around them lol.

Yes, this.

It is very much a "we just weren't raised that way", suspicion of the white, educated, city slicker thing.

Anti-knowledge is just how some people are.
I'm not that way, but I am guest in their house and they did not hire me for lectures on how to live.

Again these are the most loving people I've ever known.
They will give you the shirt off their backs.

This experience is good for me.

I don't think it's ever appropriate to lecture people about their ways. As you say, people vary.
But that still doesn't mean you have to eat the turkey.

You sound like a wonderful, considerate SO and SIL. I imagine they wouldn't think twice if you just happened to not be in the mood for turkey the rest of your visit.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Kenny,

As you may now tell, this has bothered me somewhat. You have mentioned on several occasions that your so's family are uneducated, poor immigrants. This maybe true, but in no way does that make them stupid. Refrigeration was a leap forward to keep our food free from bacteria. If this poor immigrant family let flies all over the food, which they did do in the past, you still wouldn't say anything.

This job of brinmging them up to daye on the scientific evidence is your SO's job. He surely can't be afraid of his parents. My mother never went past the 7th grade and if you told her about refrigeration, you would have been her best friend. I think your So should tell them the rules of food contamination. It is his job. He could save a life.

Sorry, it did bother me, so blame me, but tell your SO to tell his parents or any other cooker in the home.


Thanks,
Annette

 

[kenny]

You have mentioned on several occasions that your so's family are uneducated, poor immigrants.
This maybe true, but in no way does that make them stupid.

I didn't say it did.