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Question on my thoughts on hearts on fire diamonds

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Hello, after reading some reviews of different diamond brands online, i've taken a look at hearts on fire brand, round brilliant 3 prong martini earrings for some time. I've taken a look at .5 total carat weight on a number of occasions at different jewelry stores and i have to say that rather than being attracted to its fire and brilliance, i was really turned off in a literal sense. Because I read reviews that they were one of the finer cut diamond brands, i guess i expected to see some sparkle. Instead, each time i saw what appeared to be very yellow diamonds that do not have much of a shine. All of them were j color. The store owners cleaned it for me to take a look at also and i've seen it next to a regular "premium cut" of theirs and i did notice that the hearts on fire looked much bigger than the other pair that weighed the same but in terms of light reflecting back, it seemed to look worse and yellow. Their other diamond was an I color. I know i am not giving much specs to work with. is it possible that I don't have fully trained eyes to see or are hearts on fire diamonds just dont have the bling factor? If i went with a Brian Gavin or any other super ideal cut diamond online, is it possible that I will be disappointed also?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 3, 2004
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31,560
Maybe you need to look at some G/H color stones. BGD are top ideal cut H&A stones. .. :love:
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,179
Color has nothing to do with cut quality.

In some lighting environments (with one more more small pointed sources that result in lots of fire) better cut can make body color less noticeable, but in other lighting environments and in a side view good cut will not conceal high body color.

Some fine brands offer diamonds with more body color than other brands.
But again, color has nothing to do with cut quality.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Kenny is right, it's CUT you want to zero in on. And in my opinion, a HOF diamond may or may not live up to a BGD or a GOG ideal cut round. If you want to take some (actually a lot) of the guess work out, stick with one of these companies. I own round ideal cut diamonds from both and it's truly a toss up as to which is more beautiful.

I often like to show this posters ring as an example of just what a great cut can look like. She doesn't post here anymore, but she has many threads with this beauty in it. This is a J SI2 ring! :love: One of my all time faves.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-gorgeous-new-fishtail-pave-set-from-wf.46129/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-gorgeous-new-fishtail-pave-set-from-wf.46129/[/URL]
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Thank you everyone for your reply. And Ellen, congratulations on your engagement ring! It is GORGEOUS! And so big! I guess your hard work, research, and the help you received all paid off BIG in the end. i guess that is sorta my aim here as well.

Concerning the hearts on fire J color quarter carat diamond studs, since they looked yellow and without much brilliance when i took a look at them numerous times, my guess is that either the cut on all the ones i looked at lacked big time allowing my eyes to see the yellow. I've looked at I color costco diamonds many times too and they did not look yellow or bad. I doubt the costco diamonds cut were better than the hearts on fire but I don't know, maybe there is something i am missing here. I will try to go to the store to take a pic of them and you can be the judge of the yellow not so brilliant hearts on fire diamond studs. Maybe the lighting at the store? which i doubt because i've seen them in diff stores.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,194
Hearts on Fire diamonds are generally well cut stones. There can be variance in all stones but my guess is that they are pretty well cut.

As others have said, cut has nothing to do with color. A well cut stone in a lower color will still show the color of the stone in some lighting. Perception of what a well cut diamond looks like can be somewhat unrealistic too. Which of these facts factors into what you saw is hard to say.

However, if they don't please you in any way don't 'try' to like them. Simply walk away. In terms of the BGD stones, you can order them - particularly unset - and return them too if you are not 100% pleased. Just don't settle for something you don't like because it is supposed to be the best. Your eyes are the best judge of what pleases you.
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Thank you for your input. That makes perfect sense. I went to a local jeweler that has hearts on fire again and this time they all looked pretty brilliant, but still the tint of yellow was more than I would accept. I dont know if i am being a hard to please or what not but they are pretty yellow. I took one terrible picture of it but I think it still showed some of the yellow on one of the diamonds. Maybe i should have taken the pic without flash and it wouldve shown the yellow well. I am thinking I'll be going for bgd with higher color grade.

20160714_190132.jpg
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
I just got my order of Brian Gavin F, vs2, .25 carats (.5 total) signature diamonds and they look great. They appear yellow in different lighting. I am thinking that all diamonds just transmit that array of yellow in diff lighting. I can't seem to get a good pic of these. Thanks for everyone's responses!

20160725_130559.jpg
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,179
Color can not be judged by pics, especially on the Internet because many things influence the color each of us perceive when we look at our monitors.

If one poster says, "They look so white." it means nothing.
If another poster says, "They look so yellow." it means nothing.

Plus zillions more PS posters will say the former than that latter because that's the 'niceness bias' so prevalent on PS.
This further distorts 'truth' that the OP may be seeking.

The only way to 'know' a diamond's color is to just trust the color grade assigned by a reputable gem lab like GIA or AGS.
If an F diamond look too yellow to you trade it in for D or E ... but keep in mind yellow things in the environment (including the light source) walls, your shirt, etc. may be reflected by the diamond making it seem more yellow than it really is.
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Thanks Kenny. That sounds like a fair statement. My point was that the j color hearts on fire stones graded by ags lab looked very yellow but upon seeing the f color Brian gavin (graded by ags as well) the yellow still seems to be still there (especially when I flash lights with my flashlight app on my phone). Perhaps the yellow I am seeing in these diamonds is part of the array of lights that bounce back? Anyways I will see how my wife likes these for the price paid.

^^ 20160725_145848.jpg
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,179
For us civilians judging diamond color is fraught with pitfalls.
Even natural daylight is not reliably neutral.

In the early morning or late afternoon (when the sun is low in the sky) sunlight is more yellowish.
At those times sunlight is filtered through more of the earth's color-tinting atmosphere than it is when the mid-day sun is higher overhead.
Then the eye-brain system itself tries to compensate and adjust itself for variation of color in the source of the light.
It's a can of worms.

That said, unless under tightly controlled conditions (how reputable labs graded diamond color) I think few people could detect the difference between a (GIA or AGS-graded) D and F diamond.
But you may be in the minority who can.
FWIW, that doesn't mean your gal can.
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Kenny,

I paid 1200 for this pair of signature hearts and arrows from Brian Gavin diamonds. I know that I can opt for the same carat, color, clarity but just a very good or excellent cut rather than super ideal for about 800 (gia very good cut grade). 400 price difference. In your opinion do u think this cut difference is noticeable and worth the extra price point on quarter carat earrings?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,179
junhox212|1469489652|4059267 said:
Kenny,

I paid 1200 for this pair of signature hearts and arrows from Brian Gavin diamonds. I know that I can opt for the same carat, color, clarity but just a very good or excellent cut rather than super ideal for about 800 (gia very good cut grade). 400 price difference. In your opinion do u think this cut difference is noticeable and worth the extra price point on quarter carat earrings?
My opinion applies only to me.
For most people Carat weight is their most important C.
For me it's the least important.

I'm happy to pay zillions for what I value, and in white diamonds I value light performance above all else.

YMMV.
Don't be like me.
I don't matter.
Only you and, if they are a gift, the lucky recipient matter.
I'm not like that other poster who arrogantly tells you, "You don't need an F diamond!" ... as if people should not vary because everyone should be just like her! :nono:
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Thanks for your reply. You are right in that everyone values diff things more than others. I am actually on a search again as the BGD F vs2 looked pretty yellow to me and it did not look as big as the other quarter carat earrings my wife tried at the malls (HOF & Forevermark at Ben Bridge). My optical perceptions could be off as I am not comparing them next to each other. However, i have taken a look at these for some time in different lighting and i am not satisfied with the way they look with the color and size as well as the price i paid. I may aim for an E color, SI2 eye clean any very good cut on a 3 prong martini. I personally don't believe the premium paid on these super ideal diamonds on quarter carat earrings are worth it after i looked at these BGD earrings. I may aim for .3 carats instead of .25 as .25 BGD did not suffice in size.
 

FightGravity

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
240
VG cut are likely to look smaller at a given carat weight because of light leakage - there will not be excellent light return from the entire diamond, and there may be areas of poor light return around the edges that make the diamond look smaller.

It's hard for me to imagine that ideal cut F color stones look "too yellow" at .25ct. What conditions are you viewing them under? In a yellow room, they will reflect some wall color back. Or at sunset reflect that warm light. But so will D or E color stones.

Ultimately you are the one spending the money! But please don't make the mistake of thinking that a poorer cut stone one color grade higher is going to look better.

FWIW if you are willing to do some hunting, you can find ideal/excellent cut stones with fantastic light return for somewhat cheaper than the branded ideals.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 23, 2005
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12,194

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
906
In the past, we've bounced around the idea that perhaps AGS grades a bit softer on color that GIA does. I have a F AGS000 diamond, and I can see warmth in it. That doesn't bother me. But before that, I owned a G GIA XXX purchased from the same Pricescope vendor, and it was definitely a watery white, whiter than the AGS F. It looked colorless to me. The F looks almost colorless. Perhaps you are just very color sensitive? A CZ is a colorless D white diamond equivalent. E should be pretty close.

On the other hand, it's supposed to be darned difficult to gauge tints in any round diamond under .3ct. Even if tint is present, it shouldn't be easy to see in the size of stones you are purchasing. Maybe you are just extremely color-sensitive, though. Do others see the yellow?
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
I apologize for a late response. Whenever i hit the reply button it would take me to my profile page for some reason until now. I am now looking at .35- .4 carats each. And in terms of color, I am unsure of what is going on as I have seen even J-k color stones at Ben Bridge (called ikuma diamonds) and they did not seem yellow at all.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,194
It sounds to me like you are currently caught in a situation where you don't feel you can trust any of the grading labs with regards to colour and are instead trying to trust your eyes over everything else - which I can see the logic of, as after all, your eyes are what you use to see a stone every day, not the bit of paper with the grading on it.

That said...

- shop lights are designed to make poorly cut stones look great - the real challenge is in dim, flat lighting. Does it still look bright white even then?

- The other stones of the same weight as the BGD stones may have been cut a lot shallower so they looked larger in shop lighting, for example, which may negatively impact light performance elsewhere - but an AGS000 from BGD / GOG / CBI will be bright from edge to edge so maximise their size in all lighting environments.

- don't forget that diamonds will reflect their environments - so unless you live in a Brilliant White-painted minimalist box, have white hair and only wear white clothes :lol: you will see some 'tint' in some situations, which will change when the environment changes.


Personally speaking, I think you are in the situation where you need to either adjust your expectations for your budget, or you need to increase your budget so that you can afford AGS or GIA 'D' colour in 000/XXX cut in the size you want to achieve, which would remove any concerns over colour and cut and give you that 'mind clean' feeling in the size you are looking for.


As I believe a much wiser man than me says in his signature (I can't check because I have signatures switched off in my settings right now), "Mind clean is more difficult to achieve than Eye clean", or words to that effect :)
 

junhox212

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
73
Mind clean.. they ought to add that to the 4c's brotha haha. I like that.

Yes the money is the biggest issue this time around to get the size and quality i want to get. Will keep you guys posted on what i end up doing
 
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