Question on a price

[golovast]

Well, I guess I had to break down and start looking for a ring..=] Seems like there is a lot of knowledgeble people here and I was looking for some help. I found a diamond. Round, 1.26 carats, J color, SI1, ideal cut, GIA report. 61.9 depth, 57 table, thinmed girdle. The price is $3400 and it seems pretty good. Is that a fair price? Also, I''ve read that J color and SI1 you pretty much can''t tell the difference with an untrained and unprofessional eye, is that true?

Thank you

 

[EdSkinner]

the price sounds pretty good. GIA doesn't give you enough information to establish cut, so who said it is ideal. Did you get a sarin report on it? It depends on what color you are trying to compare it to. J color in on the low end of white, and while I do not have a problem with that it seems like alot folks on this site seem to only like G/H or better. SI1 is one of my top 2 clarities (the other being VS2). You maybe able to see the inclusion in a SI1 maybe not. All in all the money being asked for what is being offered is very good.

 

[golovast]

1 thing I wanted to add is that the SI1 rating is because of something that is called "twinning wisps". Is that a significantly problematic flaw? Visible to the naked eye?

 

[EdSkinner]

I don't think so. They are fine lines in the stone that you should not be able to see.

 

[golovast]

Well, I guess I should have gotten this rock when I had the chance. Half a day after your post, it was gone. Oh well, but I have even more questions now....

I did some searching on pricescope and it seems that a lot of sites don't specify the cut of the diamond. Specifically Union Diamond will sometimes specify "excellent cut" in the notes, but not always. Does excellent cut mean ideal? If its not specified, should I just take a guess from the measurements? I also wanted to ask about some of the retailers that list the diamonds. Are they reputable? Have people bought from them before? White Flash, Union Diamond, Dirt Cheap Diamonds.....not quite sure about them.

Another thing I've noticed is that generally, everything else being equal, Princess and Radiant cut diamonds seems to be quite cheaper then Rounds. Is that just a nature of the market? And one last question. I found another diamond. Round, 1.51 Carats, I color, SI1 clarity. Cut however is good, which seems a little low to me. Depth is 68.2, table is 55, polish/symmetry is g/vg. Girdle is M-VTK (whatever that means). Price is about 4500, which seems good, but the cut is somewhat worrisome. I am concerned that it may not look very good.

Another option that I am looking at is a 1.19 Carat, round, color H, clarity SI1, cut is ideal, polish/symmetry is also g/vg. Depth is 60.5, table is 57, with a medium girdle. The price on that one is about 4800.

I am having some difficulty deciding between these 2. The first one is quite a bit larger and also cheaper. The main difference seems to be the cut, which is good on the first one and ideal on the second one. Is the cut this significant? Am I better off getting the second one?

Well, I know that's a lot of questions....

, if any of you can help with some of them, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you.

 

[golovast]

Just one more question....Radiant diamonds don't come in an ideal cut? Do they generally look good? vs Princess and round.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I would NOT buy a round stone with a depth of 68% . . . it is waaaaay too deep, will be dull looking, and will look much smaller than its size. Why bother?

The other stone could be an option. Have you seen it? Do you like its look? What kind of a certificate does it have (AGS or GIA would be a green light)? If you have an AGS cert or can get a sarin analysis, then you'll know the crown and pavilion angles . . . the true keys to cut (saying a stone is "ideal" without them is impossible. Table and depth do not in any way dictate where the girdle lies. Imagine if the girdle were way up high right next to the girdle, or way down low near the bottom. Obviously it is generally in the same place, but even the slightest variation makes a big difference in the stone's light return.

 

[golovast]

I haven't seen the actual stone, I am doing the seaching on the internet...

... I already did enough research though, that I am only looking at diamonds with GIA certs. On the second stone, I don't know the pavilion angles and the crown. However the site specifies it as an ideal cut. Actualy that was another thing I wanted to ask....should some sites that specify the cut, be trusted more then others? Blue Nile, Diamond, Mondera....when they say its an ideal cut, should it be taken as such?

THank you

 

[fire&ice]

As P.G. pointed out, 68% depth in round is too deep. The 1.5c stone will look considerable smaller than it's carat weight.

 

[valeria101]

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On 4/11/2004 10:25:10 PM golovast wrote:



Blue Nile, Diamond, Mondera....when they say its an ideal cut, should it be taken as such?

----------------

Each place has it's own definion of 'ideal' so they are all right.

Why trust anyone when getting enough info on a stone does help much better to select both diamonds and sellers

GIA certs are great to identify color and clarity, but not cut. AGS also gives info on all three. With an AGS0 on cut the chances to end up with a really ad stone are slim.

Also, I would not avoid totally the EGLs: there is info on cut, the stones are already disocunted so you can get a color or clarity grade higher on the EGL cert and end up with the same deal plus info on cut... I think.

Just my 0.2, of course.

 

[Nicrez]

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On 4/11/2004 9:24:20 PM golovast wrote:

Just one more question....Radiant diamonds don't come in an ideal cut? Do they generally look good? vs Princess and round. ----------------

Radiant diamonds don't come ANYWHERE near ideal cuts. They are too few and far between in the decent region to even go as far as "ideal". The more demand, the more supply of a stone. Round stones are the highest demand, and they have the most standardized dimensions and cuts than ANY OTHER cut. Princess stones also are somewhat tough to find in a good cut, but much more likely to find than Radiant.

I only suggest radiants to people who TRULY want one, have a trustworthy set of sources to look for them, and have the time and patience to sift through a lot of junk.

That said, your best bet for a sparkly, wonderful stone is a round stone. I have a radiant engagement ring, as i didn't want a traditional round stone, and didn't like princess. Not too many other options, plus I like the cracked glass look of the cut. Again, I would always recommend you stick to a round stone classic, as the search will be easier and more likely to turn up lots of otpions in color and clarity you wouldn't be able to compromise in with a shaped stone.

Good luck and keep searching!!!

 

[golovast]

Thanks everyone for your help and taking the time to answer my not so intelligent guestions...

You guys heard of Engagement Rings Direct? Is it a reputable site and good to deal with?

Also, I pretty much figured out that I want to go with an ideal cut and a round diamond. What side stones does it look good with, if that is the setting that I am going to go with? Also, how does the price on this diamond sound:

Carat: 1.20
Shape: Round
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 60.9
Table: 55.0
Polish: VG
Symmetry: G
Girdle: M-TK
Report: GIA
Price: ~$4700

Of course there is no AGSL cert, but it seems to fall within Signature Ideal on Blue Nile, just based on table and depth.

Thanks

 

[alexah]

We recently made a purchase from Mark at EngagementRingsDirect.com & it was a very positive experience for us! We couldn't be happier!

You can do a search on ERD using the search engine engine on PriceScope- I know others have enjoyed working with Mark... I think MadMarlin had written something?
Good luck with everything!

 

[TheDiamondPro]

FIRST:
Personally, anything over 1.00 ct that is less than I color makes me focus on the make of the diamond: I want to see a better make to accentuate the beauty, and to compliment a better overall visual appreciation, thus the I or Better....

And in response to Ed above.....stop confusing potential consumers by filling them with the pompous "requirement" of a Sarin document.....they do not understand that there are few of these instruments out there (prohibitive cost) and that they primarily benefit DIAMOND CUTTERS not the DIAMOND BROKERS that make up these online 'vendors' who are pretty much selling the same diamonds (which they do not own) made available to them by subscription to one or more of the industry's services.......

There are simply too few diamonds out there with Sarin docs to start demanding them as evidence of desirability!
Technobabble will confound the masses!

Trust is earned, and maintained, only by those who have committed to it early and outwardly......

SECOND:
About Princess, Radiant.....
There IS IN FACT a standard with regard to radiants (despite the adamant ignorance of others preceeding..) which has been established by the patent-holder of RADIANT CUT DIAMOND, and is harder for the layman to actually understand and find on the 'open market': the Radiant Cut Diamond Corporation produces diamonds that meet exacting standards with special regard to cut, to maintain the beauty of their creation, and to offer a significant diamond for appreciation to consumers. As a rule, true radiants are cut to exacting standards, which you can learn of by visiting this link: radiantcut.com/images/optimal.html. Most of the "radiants" on the online market are NOT true radiants, but cut similarly as to represent themselves to be so: they are very rectangular, and are far inferior in performance, lacking the brilliance and life that has engendered this fabulous cut to the truly ecclectic (there are simply much fewer real radiants available than the demand).

And, alas, RCDC does not allow their diamonds to be traded online, and are extremely picky about choosing jewelers to represent thier products....you will have to make a few calls to find a local dealer that has a relationship with the company to have a few sent in on Memo for private consideration.......

"Ideal" princess-cut diamonds are as square as possible, with a balanced table (not so spready) and not so bottom-heavy as they are so abundantly offered....

Remember, both of these cuts are hybrids from other diamonds: both are offically noted as "modified emerald cut diamonds"......you are paying for BRILLIANCE and FIRE (Life)...and you should know what to expect....

Good Luck!

 

[joeysdad]

----------------
Technobabble will confound the masses!

----------------

Are you implying that a consumer couldn't possibly understand a sarin report????

I think you came to the wrong place to try and convince people of that.

 

[Nicrez]

----------------
On 4/12/2004 9:56:03 PM TheDiamondPro wrote:



FIRST:

There are simply too few diamonds out there with Sarin docs to start demanding them as evidence of desirability!
Technobabble will confound the masses!

Ok, but do you own a Sarin, or ever priced one? Again, I know three people alone who have one within a one block radius of each other. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

Trust is earned, and maintained, only by those who have committed to it early and outwardly......

Those who have "committed to it early and outwardly"...? WHAT?! How about those who are HONEST gain trust. You are either uniformed and honest, or dishonest. I can't tell which...

SECOND:
About Princess, Radiant.....
There IS IN FACT a standard with regard to radiants (despite the adamant ignorance of others preceeding..) which has been established by the patent-holder of RADIANT CUT DIAMOND, and is harder for the layman to actually understand and find on the 'open market': the Radiant Cut Diamond Corporation produces diaonds that meet exacting standards with special regard to cut, to maintain the beauty of their creation, and to offer a significant diamond for appreciation to consumers. As a rule, true radiants are cut to exacting standards, which you can learn of by radiantcut.com/images/optimal.html. Most of the 'radiants' on the online market are NOT true radiants, but cut similarly as to represent themselves to be so: they are very rectangular, and are far inferior win performance, lacking the brilliance and life that has engendered this fabulous cut to the truly ecclectic (there are simply much fewer real radiants available than the demand).

Admant ignorance oo your part is what is most obvious in your posts. I OWN an original The Radiant Cut Radiant from Henry Grossbard. It is a lovely stone, and my jeweler is one of the two retailers in NYC who sells them. I have seen well over 45+ radiants in person, and have had the opportunity to see all types of cuts from rectangular to perfectly square. I have researched this elusively perfect stone for several months and still contintue to do so both at B&M and on-line. Most of them were cut generically, and some were Grossbards. It is out of my search that I can tell you that a well cut radiant is HARD TO FIND, and even The Radiant Cut has some dogs, as I have seen. Some too deep, some too large of a table...BUT He has the highest collection of the best cuts and I will conceed to that point.

Frankly the amount of "ideal" cut stones in the market (especially at higher carat weights and quality or color and clarity) are so few and far between a perfectionist would have to search for months and be extremely exacting, as I was to find it. NOT worth the search if they are not "TRULY" into radiants. That was a judgement call made on my part, but each person will determine their own. I have helped some people here find nice radiants, and I will always continue to do that with some excellent parameters set forth by some experts here as to the better cuts and the best prices.

Remember, both of these cuts are hybrids from other diamonds: both are offically noted as 'modified emerald cut diamonds'......you are paying for BRILLIANCE and FIRE (Life)...and you should know what to expect....

OBVIOUSLY you do not own a GIA cert of any of these stones, as they are classified as "cut cornered rectangular or square modified brilliants" I will include several GIA certificate copies to prove that both Radiants and princess cuts are classified as such by GIA and EGL. I saved them from my search.

Good Luck!----------------

 

[TheDiamondPro]

LOLOL!

Understanding a Sarin doc, and expecting a doc are 2 different things.....

Oh! And to further: a Sarin doc by intent is very useful for comparison to an established standard, not the definition of one, correct? SO....how does an EightStar Diamond fit into the Sarin evaluation?? Do YOU know?
(Why, or why not?)

Hmmmm....visit EightStar.com for an eye-opener!

 

[limey]

DiamondPro

Take a chill pill. Read up on some of the histories and backgrounds of the people you are flaming. If you had read just a few postings from Nicrez you would realize how well meaning and sincere she is in helping people find a decent radiant. (FYI, I too saw Grossbard radiants and after two salvos of 3-4 diamonds and no winners, I mean real dogs that barely squeezed into the RCDC numbers and were way to rectangular, I looked elsewhere which led me to other shapes found only online, so far).

Anyway to my point, I think you should relax, quit trying to change the culture in one night and contribute to threads rather than hijack them. I am sure you have exceptional knowledge and we can learn from your perspective but you need to settle down.

Andrew