Question for the Experts and Everyone Else

[DrH2O]

Now, I am still learning all of this new diamond stuff and terminology. I have been browsing through different vendors and notice each one have their own special thing which is to be expected I guess.

My question - Is WF''s ACA any more superior than their Ideal Cut stones? When I run it through a diamond grading calculator they seem to appear equally good. Where is the added benefit of paying the extra $$ for ACA because I really don''t see it based purely on looking at numbers, but at the same token I am not expert.

I would like to hear the experts opinion as well as people who have seen both an ACA and an Ideal Cut stone and if they really see a difference.

Thank you all.

 

[DrH2O]

To add to my earlier message:

What is the difference between these 2 (aside from the obvious):

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-256918.htm#

and

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-540910.htm

 

[Lorelei]

The main difference is that the ACA is a heart and arrows branded cut. The Expert Selection are diamonds which missed meeting the very strict criteria for ACA, often by a hair, but actually look similar to ACA, so these can be an excellent choice for those who want a superbly cut diamond, but not a brand cut. There are some PSers who have been able to see each type of diamond and have owned some, they may be able to give you their thoughts later.

Also read this link as it will be very helpful A Cut Above Versus Expert Selection

Read this tutorial to learn more about the ACA brand / H&A

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/all_about.aspx?articleid=24&zoneid=23

Hope this helps answer your question.

 

[DrH2O]

Yes & No. Aside from "knowing under the microscope" and "other diamond tools", can you detect visual difference between WF ACA and their ES or other diamonds from different vendors that are rated AGS ideal. Just like if you visually (almost most of the time) you can detect a difference between a stone with color DEF and outside that range. Similarly vith clarity you can visuallyd etect a difference between VS2 and SI2 stone. Can you visually detect a difference between WF ACA and AGS ideal cut stones???

 

[Lorelei]

I guess the best way would be for either Sir John to see this and give his thoughts, or for those who have either seen or owned both to chime in....

 

[DrH2O]

Who is Sir John??

I guess what I am trying to get at is why pay a premium your naked eye cannot visualize. Secondly, I don''t understand the concept of branding a commodity (except for people who do because they find people to purchase them and cash in). A diamond is a commodity. Would you pay more for copper if it was a brand name copper??? A copper is a copper. If you cannot visualize something with the naked eye that tells you something is "gorgeous" then no point in paying premium unless you will set the diamond under a microscope or idealscope instead of your finger so you could see how pretty it really is.

 

[Lorelei]

Sir John is an affectionate nickname some PSers use for John Quixote ( Pollard), who posts here as one of our experts and also works for Whiteflash.

People will pay out for a branded cut if it is worth it to them, the same as some may pay extra for a very high colour or clarity, even if the result of that isn't readily seen or discernable. To some, an important part of buying a diamond is that they have the ACA name, some prefer not to pay for that and an ES is close enough. Those in the non PS world, may not consider cut quality at all. Others would rather have what we call a nice make of diamond, which although may not be cut to the strictest parameters, will still be a well cut diamond and give a good performance. It is an individual choice as to how a diamond buyers budget is best spent. Also if you do a search on
' mindclean,' you may find more info which may be of interest. ' Mindclean' is a term which is widely known here, for example, it could mean that some have to have a high clarity diamond so that the diamond is ' mindclean' for them - even if a lower clarity is eyeclean and does the job, it may not be ' mindclean' to the wearer. In other words, it will bug them that they know they have a lower clarity diamond than they originally wanted, even if they can't see a difference, to them, they know there is a difference. This can apply with colour grade, size and other aspects of diamond buying. Ultimately, it can reduce the happiness that comes with the purchase, or the satisfaction that comes with feeling their money was well spent.

 

[DrH2O]

Mindclean is a totaly seperate subject. I am speaking of what can be visualy detected by the naked eye. My question basically boils down to this - if I present you with a ACA stone and a seperate stone that is rated AGS Ideal that is a Type 1 A grading and performs excellent under HCA would you be detect visually which one is which. Trust me I have no qualms paying for a an excelent cut stone only if I would be able to visually detect the difference and see what I am paying for.

 

[Lorelei]

I think someone who has seen both types of diamonds and has looked at them carefully, can possibly give you an answer as to their perception of any differences.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/7/2007 11:44:57 AM
Author: DrH2O

Mindclean is a totaly seperate subject. I am speaking of what can be visualy detected by the naked eye. My question basically boils down to this - if I present you with a ACA stone and a seperate stone that is rated AGS Ideal that is a Type 1 A grading and performs excellent under HCA would you be detect visually which one is which. Trust me I have no qualms paying for a an excelent cut stone only if I would be able to visually detect the difference and see what I am paying for.

Regardless of visual perception, we would suggest that one part of branding is the value-add of knowing what you will get: Strong brands enjoy a reputation for quality and consistency which some people find reassuring, especially in the sight-unseen internet market. Others may not worry about it.

To your question: When it comes to visual differences the problem you run into is that there's not one correct answer. First, when you're talking about broad generalizations like 1A, AGS0 or GIA EX there are distinct differences inside those grades so it’s a stone-by-stone call. Second, cut sensitivity varies among people in the same way color & clarity sensitivity does. Some people pick out insane detail. Others don't. I distinguish more now than when I started my GIA coursework. Born and bred diamantaires detect things most people never will. None of us can speak for the next guy.

We have hundreds of top H&A, near-H&A and non H&A ideals here and consumers make the comparisons you’re asking about on a daily basis in our offices. For some the differences are negligible. Others prefer more precise cut. Still others have no interest in rounds whatsoever. To each his/her own... We’re happy either way as long as the customer is happy.

Diamond cutters dedicated to H&A precision will tell you there’s a difference. Those selling ‘close-to-H&A’ ideals may say there’s no difference. Merchants in some markets will preach that ‘ideal’ is baloney and H&A is a gimmick. None of those people can speak for what every individual will perceive, or value.

The success of top H&A brands sold side by side with other ideals in the US and abroad provides an answer your question. That doesn’t mean it’s the answer for everyone.