Question about quality!

[abbymax825]

Many of you sound like you have done considerable research about diamonds. My boyfriend and I are in our beginning stages of the learning curve and are trying to gather as much info about purchasing a diamond. I am looking for a round brilliant and I love the look of slightly bigger stones. We love the look of a 1.5c in an xprong, trellis setting in white gold. I don''t want any other side stones. Our budget is typical of new college grads with reasonable jobs. We are looking to spen around 7-8000$ for the diamond itself. I want to get the most for hte money but as cliche as it is size is still important. Is this possible??? What part of the 4 c''s can you not get the best of and still get a diamond that has brilliance and fire. I want it to look like it cost millions, but it can''t??!!! Any thoughts!!

 

[canadiangrrl]

Hi Abby,

Your budget is extremely tight for a well cut stone in the 1.50 carat range. I would suggest dropping your clarity requirments to SI2 and getting the best cut and colour you can afford in the 1.30-1.40 range - there's a jump in price at 1.50.

Best of luck!

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi AbbyMax! Welcome the PS Forum!

Using the "Search by Cut Quality, Known HCA" Search Engine, 1.4 to 1.6 ct, VS1 to SI2, I got 10 possibles below $10,000. If you can wait just a bit until the Christmas shopping madness settles down, and the Vendors have a chance to replinish their inventories, selection should be even better.

Keep in mind that diamonds you've seen elsewhere might not have been Ideal cuts. Typical Maul and B&M store diamonds are deep cut or have thick girdles. There are a number of ways to hide weight so consumers wind up paying for carat weight that no one actually sees. Soooo, while you were looking at a 1.5 carat weight, it might actually look like a 1.4 carat Ideal cut. Cut quality will impact the visual performance. Lesser cut diamonds allow light to leak thru the girdle and/or out the pavillion of the diamond. The better a diamond is cut, the larger visual appearance it will have.

Color and clarity will be the 2 areas to bend on to maximize bang for your buck. Don't be afraid to consider H, I, and even J color. Well cut diamonds face up much whiter than their actual color grade. Clarity comes at a premium. There are many 100% eye clean SI1 and even SI2 clarity diamonds available. Candian Girl has a gorgeous I1 diamond with the main inclusion cleverly hidden. Also, if you can find a diamond just below 1.5 carat you won't pay the 1.5 carat and above premium.

Feel free to post info on possibles and ask for any help you need. There are many professionals and educated consumers that will be glad to lend a hand helping you with your diamond search!

 

[abbymax825]

First of all, you guys are awesome!!! Great advice already!! What about the site uniondiamond.com I'm not sure of etiquite on this site about asking about different sites, but I just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything about it?? This is what I found...

Stock Number > 38902
Certificate > EGL
Cut > Round
Carat > 1.51
Color > F
Clarity > SI2
Regular Price > $7003
Wire Transfer Price > $6799
Measurements > 7.41-7.45X4.46 mm
Depth Percentage > 60.00 %
Table Percentage > 57 %
Girdle > M-SLTK
Culet > N
Polish > Very Good
Symmetry > Very Good
Fluorescence > Faint blue
Special Notes > Excellent Cut

What question do I need to ask?? Eye clean???

 

[aljdewey]

Weeeeeeeelllll, I'm personally not too wild about the girdle on that stone from Union Diamonds - med to sl thick isn't what I'd consider optimal.




Keep in mind, Abby, that a well-cut stone looks larger than most mall stones, so you can go smaller than 1.5 on paper and still have it LOOK like a 1.5 that most people wear.




Example: I have a 1.24 ct, diamond - diameter of 6.97 x 7.00. I was killing time last week and went into Kay's. Their 1.5 ct. stones were all about the same diameter that my 1.24 is....7.00mm. This means that you can get a 1.25 - 1.35 stone with a great cut, and it will look as big as a run-of-the-mill 1.5 ct. BUT, you don't pay the "premium" hike on a 1.5 ct, and you get more bang for the buck!




Make sense?

 

[abbymax825]

that makes perfect sense. I looked at a mall jewlery store and they had a 1.72crt diamond and AI looked at it and thought that it looked small to be a 1.72. So instead of looking at carat, i should look as dimensions (along with cut) to get the size that I am looking for??!! I wear a size 7.5 ring adn the 1.2 at the mall looked tiny on my finger...a diamond with 7.0x7.0 approx measurement wouldn't look too small would it??

 

[pqcollectibles]

Definitely check diameter measurements as you look around. How else can you compare apples to apples when it comes to size appearance??!!

Just as an example,.... I have a 3/4 carat H&A with a 6mm diameter. That's the size of most Maul store ~1 carats. A friend who has a 3/4 ct e-ring commented on my diamond a few weeks back. She said, "We wanted to buy a 1 carat diamond, but we couldn't afford it." Did I tell her that our diamonds are the same weight??!! Nope! But mine looks bigger (has a bigger diameter) than hers so she assumed mine is a carat in weight.

I wear a size 6 ring, but I am tall with long fingers and hands. My 6mm, 3/4 carat looks nice on my finger, but 7mm would look GREAT!

 

[Giangi]

If a 1.2ct looks small on you, I've found a few much larger stones...

1.82ct J/SI 2

1.720 I/SI 2

1.56 J/VS 2

These are all H&A's and the SI 2's look fairly clean fo the grade.

 

[aljdewey]

Abby.....I can only tell you what I did to get an idea on "size".....not carat weight, but dimensions.




I went to the chain stores at the mall and looked at their "certified" diamonds.....their grading reports show the diameter right on the little card. I didn't even pay attention to carat weight - I was considering an ideal diamond from a PS vendor that was 6.62 x 6.64. Soooo, I went looking in the cases trying to find a few diamonds with diameters of that size so I could try them on and get a feel for how big they would look on me.




Keep in mind that even when you do this, the diamond still won't look "as big" because it's missing the SPARKLE factor that a well-cut diamond has. But it does at least give you a starting point.




I found that anything less than 6.3 felt small to me.....I would have been fine with anything 6.4 to 6.5, so i was looking in the .95-1.0 range. It happened that I found a great buy on the 1.24 because it was an SI2, so I got up to 7.00 mm! YAY. Funny, because in the store I had tried on a 7.00 diamond and thought "forget it, out of my reach", and then I ended up with my diamond. It looks bigger than the 1.5 cts I see floating around.




A little knowledge is SUCH a wonderful thing!

 

[Giangi]

Thank you, CG. As always, great minds think alike!

 

[fire&ice]

Actually, med to slightly thick is a good girdle. Med. is optimal. While some weight will be carried in the girdle, it also gives you extra protection. There are gives & takes on quite a bit of things. Avoiding thick & very thin girdles are usually advisable.

Also, I would seriously consider a near colorless stone (G/H/I). The color difference minimal. The price dif. considerable. And, I'm on board w/ an SI1 & some SI2's.

 

[abbymax825]

I copied and pasted this info from a search on pricescope. this diamond is from gog, but i couldn't find it on their site. Could it be gone, or can anyone else find it??? What do you all think!!!
One more question on a more personal note...my boyfriend is still a little skiddish about looking at rings, so i don't think that he is in any hurry, we have talked about a wedding in the summer of 05 and that you really need a year to plan, so a proposal and ring this comming summer, is what I expect. my concern is that he is not always as diligent or anal as some might call it, and he really wants it to be a surprise, but I want to be sure he gets his money's worth and that it is the right diamond for me, any ladies out there with a similar situation, or ways to get him more interested in the wide world of diamonds. I am terrified that he will buy a diamond from the mall and pay way too much and I think that I will be dissappointed by the cut and quality...any suggestions!!




1.603
J
SI2
0 (H&A)
1.7-EX
ex-ex-vg-ex
60.4
56
34.9°
40.9°
AGS
0.7-1.4f
pt
id
id
no
$6886b‡
GoodOldGold

 

[abbymax825]

What about this from diamonds-usa.com what do you think about clarity enhancement???

Item No.: 2962
Shape: Round
Color: G
Clarity: SI2
Cut: Ideal Cut Read About Cut
Clarity Enhanced: Yes Read about Clarity Enhancement
Weight: 1.70 ct
Measurements: 7.80-7.75*4.65
Depth: 59.8%
Table Diameter: 60%
Crown Height: 14%
Pavilion Depth: 44%
Issuer: EGL
Description: AGS"2" Ideal Cut!
100% clean to the naked eye.

 

[aljdewey]

Abby, it's likely that you cannot find the GOG stone because it's brokered.....means Jonathan doesn't have it in-house - he'd have to get it in.




Considering your budget, I'd really discourage dropping to a J stone. J is fine is someone is in a pinch and trying to make the carat mark, but you've got a healthy enough budget to get a noticeable stone in a decent color. Also, the larger the stone, the more color tends to show, so going to a J in a 1 carat isn't as risk as going to a J in a much larger size.




On the other stone......again, if you wanted a 1 ct. stone and you only had a budget of $2500 or so, perhaps you'd be stuck going to clarity enhanced, but I personally don't think this is the optimal choice if one's budget is decent.




It seems as though the only thing you are focusing on is size......you mentioned 1.5, we noted that 1.25-1.3 in a well-cut stone looks like 1.5, and you then post up two even bigger stones. You need to determine what's most important to you, and if size is it, then you need to do what you need to do. I'll tell you that I've personally seen a lot of crappy looking stones that are larger than mine....and they look AWFUL. As F&I mentioned, there is a premium marker once you hit the 1.5 mark, so your better values are found just below 1.5.




It's important to find the right blend of the 4 cs for you, but I think you'd be disappointed in the long run if you cut below the bone just to get a honking stone. Sure, cut corners where it won't be noticed (G/H, maybe even I color and si-1 or eyeclean SI2), but once you get below that, you're compromising too much for size in my opinion. My two cents, for what they are worth.




There are other things you can do to maximize the look of the stone.......simple setting, thin band, etc. ....that will make your stone look big without having to settle for a second-string color, etc.

 

[laney]

----------------
On 12/23/2003 9:59:54 PM abbymax825 wrote:

One more question on a more personal note...my boyfriend is still a little skiddish about looking at rings, so i don't think that he is in any hurry, we have talked about a wedding in the summer of 05 and that you really need a year to plan, so a proposal and ring this comming summer, is what I expect. my concern is that he is not always as diligent or anal as some might call it, and he really wants it to be a surprise, but I want to be sure he gets his money's worth and that it is the right diamond for me, any ladies out there with a similar situation, or ways to get him more interested in the wide world of diamonds. I am terrified that he will buy a diamond from the mall and pay way too much and I think that I will be dissappointed by the cut and quality...any suggestions!!
----------------

Abbymax825

On your more personal note - men will be men and wait until they are "ready" to do the research. I say, you get as educated as you can, get to know the price ranges of what you should expect - and read, read, read as much as you can on this site/and others with info.

Then - you can slightly drop hints like - "the crown angle and pavillion numbers are can really make a difference in a diamond". Or ... did you see her diamond - it looks really dull - I wonder if they got "duped" in a mall store.

Small, teeny tiny hints that you might have some insight - or that you might have some knowledge that he doesn't. EVEN if he doesn't ask you - you betcha he's gonna try to at least find out what that crown angle thingy meant that you said.

If you overwhelm him w/diamonds that you picked out - he may back off because "HE" wants to get it for you.

As you see - I myself was in a simliar situation. We bought a house - so we knew at some point we were gonna get a ring. But I had to let him get there all by himself. Then he knew I did all the research. He had already checked out some rings ... but then he came and said... 'well..see what you can find' Of course I found BETTER prices and hinted at all the stuff you need to consider.

We pick up our diamond tomorrow. NOW.. the hard part (since I WAS involved) is waiting to get to wear it!!

Do your research - but let him come to you! Good Luck!!

 

[pqcollectibles]

CE diamonds can be ruined by heat and/or acid treatments that any jeweler may use in setting/sizing/repair work that might be done on a piece of jewelry. If you go CE, you need to declare it any time you have work done so the smith is aware and takes proper precautions. They are more "fragile" than non enhanced diamonds so may not be a good consideration for a piece that might be hit or banged.

CE is also not permanent. Eventually the enhancement process will have to be repeated to restore the look.

AL and Mara can provide good advice to getting your FI involved in the learning and selection process. Both of their sweeties were involved and learned with them prior to purchase.

 

[abbymax825]

Alj, you are soo right. I would much rather have a ring that sparkles from here to next tuesday, than a rock that is only "big"!! Get over the size and look at sparkle and cut. A 1.2-1.4 that sparkles will be a show stopper!!
Great advice about letting him get ready, and dropping little hints. I really try to make them little, but I get so excited about all of the knowledge I am gaining that I just want to talk to him about it and hear his opinion and for him to be excited too...all in due time!!! I am really enjoying the wait, though!!!

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 12/23/2003 10:48:41 PM abbymax825 wrote:

Alj, you are soo right. I would much rather have a ring that sparkles from here to next tuesday, than a rock that is only 'big'!! Get over the size and look at sparkle and cut. A 1.2-1.4 that sparkles will be a show stopper----------------

There is so much great advice here already! Of course, after a few month on pricescope I agree with it all. There is one particular stone which may be a great example of why trading size for sparkle is not a very harsh trade-off: I am talking about Mara's stone. I do agree that such a thing would need some shopping around simply because it is not easy to get info o light return for stones which do not cary the premum of H&A cuts. Pricescope is a great place to start looking for such stuff, and here you are! I surely like the F-SI2 combination, and G-SI2 sounds great too. If you are not under a tight deadline and don't want to show the inclusion plot or a 35X photo of the stone around (as oposed of the diamond itself), SI2 is good ground for bargain hunting. I like those tinted color grades (O-P and worse), but this is not mainstream: if you want to go for a J color, you should see it first. for some reason, I do not seem to meet with tremendouns approval when I show my admiration for light yellow and champagne diamonds in public

Honestly, for the money you want to spend, you should be able to get a great stone.

As far as size and weight is concerned, you may want to search stones within a 0.2-0.3 cts range and define a certain diameter size as target: the depth of the cut alone can compensate for much of the visible size difference.

Good luck hunting!

 

[pqcollectibles]

I've never dealt with the whole man issue in buying. When we were young, I could care less about diamonds, gemstones, jewelry in general. I was happy with my little gold wedding band. As I got older, I began to appreciate the little sparklies but actually preferred emeralds over diamonds. Generally, we shopped and decided together. But all things change.

I developed a better appreciation for diamonds. So, I started a hobby of looking, comparing, pricing. Then I hopped on the Net, found PS and researched and learned. Once I decided what I wanted to buy, Hubby said, "OK." He can definitely see the difference my PS education has made in the quality of stones I now choose!

 

[jenibear]

Hi Abby!

Just wanted to chime in on your personal note. I think you know better than any of us how to talk to your man about the ring. Every relationship is different and not all men are the same.

For us, we talked and I dropped hints but I am picky and anal and knew I needed to be involved. So he told me I could pick the stone in our predetermined budget. His logic was I would be wearing it forever (until I upgrade - hee hee

) so I might as well get what I really want.

That doesn't work for everyone, but it worked for us. We both got what we wanted. I got the ring of my dreams and he still got to surprise me. I had no idea he would propose when he did.

I'm sure it will all work out and you will get a lovely ring no matter what!

 

[abbymax825]

thanks guys again...my bf loves really, really big suprises, the ones that he has told you he's not gona do it and then does it so you are left standing there not being able to react because you are so shocked. He told his brother that he would propose on our 7 year anniversary which is comming up in april but he also has said that he has a huge christmas suprise. It is either a ring or the burberry bag that I have been eyeing!! Who knows but the point is that he would be so much happier if I was the kind that knew nothing and said nothing so that his suprises could fall neatly into place. Too bad...I am the opposite and would love my nose in everything, especially when I will be wearing it on my finger. I think that it could be really fun to do this together and the propsal will of course be a suprise. I think he will come around because he will get frustrated at mall jewelers and their small selection.!! We'll see!!

I really didn't like the idea of ce, but what you said put me over the edge. I can get a stone in our budget that doesn't need enhancement!

 

[highendgems]

it is possible to find a great stone in your price range $7-8K you just have to know what to do:

the most important thing to look for when trying to stay in a certain price range while being firm with quality is the 5th 'C'...certifcation.

make sure you look for a stone that is certified from EGL USA. this will offer tremendous value right off. the EGL USA is an accurate cert. and will be several thousand off what a similar GIA or AGS cert. would go for.

example of what you want:

VS2-SI1. STAY AWAY FROM SI2...no reason to go that low. there is a difference between SI1 and SI2...especially if EGL grades the stone.
G/H color... never select an I in this price range (Sorry if im a snob). a good H is completely white and clear to the human eye. cut MUST be no less than ideal. you are looking for table 56-58%, depth 61-62%, measurements of 7.42-7.46x 7.4 x 4.5-4.6mm. thin to medium girdle, no culet and no fluorescence. cut is the most important factor, then color. you want a very good symmetry and polish too.

this can be had for under $8K with an EGL USA cert. the above specs were for a stone i just bought and the UGS appraisal value is $17,000. if this was a GIA, it would have cost $11-13K and still be worth that $17K

 

[aljdewey]

AGAIN with the misinformation......highend, I honestly think it's time you identified your agenda here.

There is positively no reason to be pushing so hard on EGL stones. It is true that SOME EGL stones can represent a great value ---IF the grading is accurate. If you feel they represent a great value, fine, say so....but to suggest that they are the ONLY value and to inflate the potential savings over AGS/GIA stones to *several thousand*--which it's NOT---just borders on being blatantly misrepresentative.

You're telling people to stay away from SI2???? That may be true with EGL because their grading is so lenient, but there is NO need to steer away from SI2 stones from the stricter labs like AGS and GIA.

I KNOW from personal experience....I own an AGS SI2, and it is completely eyeclean. I can't even locate the inclusions readily under a loupe because they are white, wispy, and low relief. You are telling people to stay away from stones that may very well help them maximize their budgets, and that's doing them a tremendous disservice.

You're also incorrect on the pricing range you've stated on AGS/GIA stones in that range. They can be had for UNDER 11K .....IF you know what you're doing.

Please.....do some homework. There is an abundance of information in the tutorial. It's great to want to help people, but spreading misinformation does far more harm than good.

 

[Giangi]

Highend, didn't you state on another thread that H is yucky yellow??

Also, as Al suggested, please take your time and read the tutorials and educate yourself a bit. You keep on promoting SO HEAVILY EGL reports (which I would NOT consider on such an expensive stone)...
Also, SI 2 isn't THAT low. Some SI 2's are not pretty,but many PROPERLY GRADED ones can be pretty (and sometimes eye-clean) and without a doubt represent EXCELLENT values and allow people to go for a MUCH larger diamond.

It looks like you've NEVER seen a true I --It's just like that, 'near colorless', and that's what it should be. Yes, it's not super white, but NOT that terrible.

BTW, you indicated as a table range 56-58... FYI 58% is NOT ideal. You may want to suggest 53-57 or, even better 54-56 for a TRUE ideal cut; and depth can be very easily in the 60's... It would be even better, for a TRUE ideal. An EGL ideal can be as low as an AGS2!
Fluorescence would be a PLUS in a G-H colr stone, and could make it look like an F-G.

Please, prior to make another post, read some tutorials and have a look at Jonathan's site. I applaud your intent, but we are talking about HARDLY earned money that someone is willing to spend on a diamond... It's not a joke.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/5/2004 2:39:39 PM aljdewey wrote:

AGAIN with the misinformation......highend, I honestly think it's time you identified your agenda here.

--

I think that's an easy one. He's an EGL lovin, Fluoresent hating, Yucky H proclaiming, old thread reviving kind of guy. And, may I add, doesn't have a clue.

 

[abbymax825]

thank you guys so much, after reading the post about egl certs, i went and tried to find diamonds with egl cert adn I just couldn't understnad the value. So, g or h color is ok, and flourescence in a diamond with an h color is actually good, and SI2 is ok if it is eye clean. what about depth and table. I tried to read the articles on the gog website, but it is a bit over my head. What is the table, pavillion, depth, and what are they measuring. I think that if I understand what they are masuring, then I won't have to memorize the numbers, I will understand what they mean.
---Still trying to pick your brain!!

 

[Jennifer5973]

Great advice from the regulars here and what I too believe to be wise: If the size is key, do your homework and look at Si1, Si2 stones in the GHI, maybe even J, range to see what you can tolerate in terms of the whiteness...The cut will make the difference. I have a pair of earrings with .25 pointers that are SI1, J color and the cut is so good, they are magnificent, can't tell the difference face up against my G color stones...and I was a color snob before I learned about the importance of the cut...would have NEVER considered to J stones.

Look around, get informed, see what appeals to you most in terms of color, and remember a good cut tcan make up for a bit of a swing in carity and color so you get the size and sparkle that makes you happy.

Good luck.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 1/5/2004 10:20:07 PM abbymax825 wrote:





thank you guys so much, after reading the post about egl certs, i went and tried to find diamonds with egl cert adn I just couldn't understnad the value. So, g or h color is ok, and flourescence in a diamond with an h color is actually good, and SI2 is ok if it is eye clean. what about depth and table. I tried to read the articles on the gog website, but it is a bit over my head. What is the table, pavillion, depth, and what are they measuring. I think that if I understand what they are masuring, then I won't have to memorize the numbers, I will understand what they mean.
---Still trying to pick your brain!!
----------------

Optimally - depth should be between 59 and 63.....table 53-57%. The crown and pav angles vary based on relationship to one another, but general guidelines for best performance are 34.3 - 34.8 on crown and 40.6 to 40.9 on pavilion.

It's been a couple of weeks since I last found a few for you....let me take a look around and see if I can find a few that fit your parameters.

 

[Patty]

abby, I keep a little post it note on my computer. It says
Table 53-58%
Depth 58.7-63%
Crown 34-35 degrees
Pavillion 42.5-43.5 degrees

I did have Pavillion as 40-41 degrees but then I changed it when I saw something else.

I don't know if I'll ever have the numbers memorized!

 

[diamond cuter]

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best gem .com


buy diamond direct .com


blue nile .com


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please serch them befor makeing final decition


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